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View Full Version : The National Breeding Credit Scheme: Can it go further?



The Big Mile
07-31-2011, 12:57 AM
With all the banter about the Australian Standardbred Panels report on the Breeding industry, it might be worth looking a bit more in depth at what appears on face value a very good initiative and the main recommendation by the panel.

In a nutshell the scheme aims to reward owners of a racing filly by allocating them credits when a female first races, each time it races and when it wins as a 2yo, 3yo and 4yo.

These credits are retained by the horse (thats an important point) and can only be used for the purpose of purchasing services to Australian domiciled Stallions for that mare.(another very significant point).

So basically to encourage an owner of a filly to breed from her once the racing days are over, he can used the credits accumulated from her racing career to purchase services fees.

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I have some questions about this scheme. On face value it looks very promising. but is there some areas that could be looked at and improved / altered?

Take the credits for instance. What if the owner held the credits instead of the horse?

I gather the owner was taken away from the equation because this is a numbers game. all about getting numbers of foals up, irrespective of how well performed the mare is and so forth. If the owner is given the chance he / she may accumulate all the credits and use them to service other mares that they own to more expensive stallions that would otherwise be out of reach.

There could be plenty of debate on it, but it could work both ways. What if half is retained by the horse and half goes to the owner? This then ensures there isn't an imbalance one way or the other. I think most breeders would (I hope) realise that certain mares just wont be for breeding, but they won't lose out on the benefit totally.

Allocation of the credits:

I wonder how the credits will be allocated. Interesting to see credits allocated on first 2/3/4 yo wins? And beyond?

You would think that the main volume of credits would be directed at winners of races but in many ways, they could be 'wasted' that could be utilised elsewhere. If you have a well performed track mare, you would think that owners would breed anyway. Take Courageous Annie. If the main reward is given to winners, then she would have a hatful, on top of everything else she has done, but would they be needed to incentivise Dean Shannon to breed? I think not. What band of horses are the ones that never seem to get bred with? it is the 3yo fillies that struggled to make it in their 3yo year and the owners decide not to persist into country front company?

This must be a tricky area to determine. Maybe it hasn't been determined. Maybe there could be a threshold in $$$$$ that once achieved within reasonable number of starts that could see an allocation of credits. All sorts of permutations but you would think that the best credentialled racemares and fillies through their deeds on the racetrack wont need any incentive to breed.

Redeeming Credits: Purchasing of Australian domiciled stallions

This is another interesting area. With all this heated debate about how the NBCS is funded, what about where the dollars end up? The credits go to the owner to encourage them to breed which then gets passed onto the stud and where do the dollars go from there?

Well a massive chunk of it will leave the country to the overseas stallion owners. Many of our top sires are still owned by US interests and are here on deals with domestic studs. Not that many sires are actually fully owned by Australian breeding interests.

For those worrying about the money flooding out of the country through the purchase of NZ horses, or NZ horses taking our race stakes, what about this drain?

And I am sure if those willing to divulge the figures, will show it is pretty damn significant indeed. So maybe the NBCS needs to go a step further. Maybe the credits should be only redeemed against domestically 100% owned stallions, or colonial bred stallions. You cannot support the local breeding industry more than that could you?

Alright. Can hear people screaming already. '...not being able to go to the top sires means the breed isn't as good as it should be etc,etc,etc'. Defeats the purpose does it?

So in many ways the import fee (the main avenue for funding the intiative) is a tax on Australian owners to line mainly Amercian pockets down the line instead of keeping it within the country. It seems to me a tad conflicting in the overall scheme of things but it still has a clear purpose. Maybe the credits you accumulate could go further if used with a colonial sire of sire standing that is 100% Australian owned. We are supporting the aussie breeding industry aren't we? Not the american one (I know this will generate vigourous debate but bring it on!).

Redeeming Credits: Why can't they be used for other breeding costs too?

what surprises me a bit when reading the report is the failure to be able to use the credits for other costs associated with breeding. Like vet bills, agistment, transport to sales / even for futurity payments and so forth. With more and more wealth concentrated in the cities, the most likely avenue for new breeders might not be the ones whom have their own farms where they can essentially go through the whole operation (agistment etc ) for incredibly low cost. Agistment and vets bills etc are a cost. Just like service fees. As shown above, if the credits are used to pay for these kinds of costs, then they truly are going into the australian breeding industry, not losing a chunk going to US stallion owners. Agistment doesn't necessarily get another foal on the ground but it is still a cost nonetheless that would otherwise have to be met financially. some horses might accumulate more credits than they can actually handle. Would be good for them to be utilised in some way.

At the end of the day the NBCS has merit but could do with some tweaking IMHO. Probably the moot point is how the Australian owners are getting slugged dollars that inevitably end up in the pockets of yanks. Maybe something that is tweaked to make it more benefical to go to colonial breds down the line when they come through (Lanercost, Blackie, For A Reason etc if up to it). This might not be in the best interest of the actual breed in terms of quality of stock, but the NCBS doesn't seem to worry about that. It is after numbers first.

smithy
07-31-2011, 01:16 AM
i have a solution: f*** off the breeding credit scheme idea completely

aussiebreno
07-31-2011, 01:37 AM
i have a solution: f*** off the breeding credit scheme idea completely

Hehe +1

Greg Hando
07-31-2011, 02:01 AM
Just one correction to start with Blackie is a gelding ha ha.
First of all a very well put together article.
The NBCS is a good idea but as you said it need's tweeking my thought would be first start,then first 2yo win,3yo,4yo and mo wins
If only able to be used on Australian owned or bred sire's it wouldn't work as everyone would like to go to the best that is available if they can afford it enter the NCBS to help with the cost's.
The only way to make sure the credit's i can see are kept in Aus is if the stallion is owned outright by non Australian interest's is that they be only used for associated stud cost's(agistment,vet,semen transport etc) not service fee's.
If the stallion is part owned by Australian interest's (perhaps a % of 50 or higher) then the credit's may be used for that sire's service fee.
I believe the credit's should go to the owner and not the mare as some owner's aren't interested in breeding and may sell on the mare. It is his/her cost that won the credit's in the first place so why give it away with the mare?.Why can't the credit's accumulated be used to buy an Australian bred yearling wether it be on farm or at a sale it will still help the breeder's and maybe sway them to breed extra foal's the next season or better quality foal's (Number's up as is the objective)
The NBCS should be able to be used on all stud associated cost's for the breeding season only (not agistment throughout the year)
I don't believe you should be able to use the NBCS for futurity payment's as these are optional anyway.
There are some nice colonial horse's around at the moment if only given a chance with some top mare's but without Imp or 1.52 or better and at least 1/2 million $ won a lot of breeder's won't look at them .
I still think the Import fee is a good idea but is too high for the colt's and gelding's and should be in line with the fillie's and mares range, after all a horse is a horse.
I don't think how well performed a mare is is an issue as their are race's for all classes of horse's and an owner of a mare is able to breed to whatever stallion he/she choose's after all if the sire is good enough he should be able to improve that mare's offspring (a true mark of a good sire) and so improve the breed .

Hope this makes sense as i know what i want to say but i find it hard to put it in writing sometime's.

eliteblood
07-31-2011, 10:45 AM
I think the mare credits earned by a mare under NCBS needs to be restricted to service fees. The basic thrust of the scheme is to encourage more / better foals to be bred. If you were allowed to cash in your credits for vet fees, agistment, etc. then they become merely a cash handout with no guarantee that any breeding decision has resulted. You would even find that phantom invoices would be created simply to "cash in" the credits.
The scheme could be modified so that the credits go to the owner rather then being tied to the mare and it would still work OK but I believe the proposed scheme is simpler and better. Keep it simple otherwise it risks becoming an administrative burden. The owner will still get the benefit even if he/she is not interested in breeding as the accrued NCBS credit will add to the sale value of the mare.
I don't know on what basis the credits are proposed to be earned but an important additional benefit of the proposal is that it will encourage mares to race longer, increasing the racing pool. With this in mind, I think the credits need to be easily earned (perhaps on the basis of every race start). The better performed mares will earn their own shot at a stud career so I would hope that the scheme is not skewed towards results, ie. first metro win - does this mare really need NCBS $ to be thrown at her.
The only way to stop service fee $ from flowing to the USA is to improve the quality of our own colts so that they become a viable stallion alternative. We are not there yet but we are quickly closing the gap.

The Big Mile
07-31-2011, 01:21 PM
Eliteblood you make some very good points. Other costs are still costs to the breeder but yes you are right, it does not focus right in on the major aim, ensuring more foals are on the ground (even though you could argue to the contrary - but if they are service fee specific, then no sidestepping the main objective potentially).

Therefore if the allocation of credits is specifically centred on stallion fees and stallion fees only, it is fair to assume the studs will be the main beneficiaries of this scheme, and therefore maybe they could come to the party a bit more too.

So for instance if you have a mare that has accumulated credits and intends to go to a top sire, normal fee is $13k, then maybe there could be a fee of $12k with credits or $12.5k with credits.

With $2.2 million in extra stallion fees being created, maybe there should be some sort of reimbursement to the industry from these credits redeemed - like on each horse, the stud can only redeem 90% of the face value in cash from HRA. Therefore 10% is being pumped back into the system to enscourage further breeding.

That means studs annually will contribute $200,000 back to the industry where they benefited from an additional $2.2 million they wouldn't have otherwise got (does that make sense?).

Added to that you would expect over time with more foals being bred from the scheme racing, then breeding themselves, the costs will escalate to funds the scheme.

What happens then?

A $15k import fee?

eliteblood
07-31-2011, 04:29 PM
Eliteblood you make some very good points. Other costs are still costs to the breeder but yes you are right, it does not focus right in on the major aim, ensuring more foals are on the ground (even though you could argue to the contrary - but if they are service fee specific, then no sidestepping the main objective potentially).

Therefore if the allocation of credits is specifically centred on stallion fees and stallion fees only, it is fair to assume the studs will be the main beneficiaries of this scheme, no the broodmare owners will be the main beneficiaries, the stallion owners will derive some benefit but only equal to the marginal difference in breeding decisions resulting from the scheme. In most cases, the mare would have been bred from in any case and the broodmare owner will simply get his service fee for nothing rather then have to pay for it. In this instance, the most likely outcome IMO, the stallion owner has derived nothing extra. and therefore maybe they could come to the party a bit more too.

The proposal already involves an extra $587k in stallion registration costs (Mightmo, can you please advise what that represents as a percentage of current stallion registration fees). Maybe some of them could still come to the party a bit more but I can assure you that most stallions are not the gold mine that you and most other people believe them to be. The net profit figure is much less than you believe but the most important figure is the return on investment. Witness the rapid decline in the number of studs that stand stallions over the last 10 years including Stallion Station and Royalstar Stud during the current off season and it indicates that many stallion owners are already not receiving an acceptable ROI. Remember, this is the business of most of these people, not their hobby. If extra funds were to be derived from stallion owners it would need to be structured somehow so that it is likely to be coming from those stallions that are most likely to be making money rather than adding to the hardships of those who are not.

So for instance if you have a mare that has accumulated credits and intends to go to a top sire, normal fee is $13k, then maybe there could be a fee of $12k with credits or $12.5k with credits.

With $2.2 million in extra stallion fees being created, maybe there should be some sort of reimbursement to the industry from these credits redeemed - like on each horse, the stud can only redeem 90% of the face value in cash from HRA. Therefore 10% is being pumped back into the system to enscourage further breeding.

That means studs annually will contribute $200,000 back to the industry where they benefited from an additional $2.2 million they wouldn't have otherwise got (does that make sense?). They will not get an additional $2.2 million - refer above for explanation

Added to that you would expect over time with more foals being bred from the scheme racing, then breeding themselves, the costs will escalate to funds the scheme.

What happens then?

A $15k import fee?

The Big Mile
07-31-2011, 05:58 PM
If extra funds were to be derived from stallion owners it would need to be structured somehow so that it is likely to be coming from those stallions that are most likely to be making money rather than adding to the hardships of those who are not.

colours works well. Your use of red is a concern :)

That is an excellent point you make above.

I think that the report suggests 6% of service fee is the stallion owners contribution for over 200 foals served.

I think it is pretty fair to assume that over 300 foals served in a season then the stallion owners will be doing ok, and what about 10-15% of the service fee for foal 300 and up go to the scheme?

Therefore it is hitting the ones whom will be in the ball park of making money.

For the stallion owners lucky enough to have a sire whom serves 500 foals, then not only are they benefitting remarkably, but so too is the industry as a patronage of that stallion means it is inadvertedly returning funds to the industry.

eliteblood
07-31-2011, 06:18 PM
I think it would be pretty safe to think that stallions serving 200 or 300 plus mares are rewarding their owners pretty well.
The difficulty is that you cannot make that absolute assumption. It depends on how much was paid for the stallion.
There are some recent high priced stallions who would constitute a bad investment if they only got 200 mares each season.
If you know beforehand than I guess you factor all that into your investment decision but if you have already bought a stallion and 6% is suddenly taken off your revenue figure, that could be very painful.

Greg Hando
07-31-2011, 06:43 PM
Eliteblood you say
The only way to stop service fee $ from flowing to the USA is to improve the quality of our own colts so that they become a viable stallion alternative. We are not there yet but we are quickly closing the gap.

Yes this is a good idea but how is it done i firmly believe it is the mentality of the breeder and buyer that stop's this happening now because they haven't got IMP after their name that is breeder's that sell at yearling sales and also the buyer's that buy at the sales as is aid earlier if some of these better colt's got a chance with some top quality mare's they might surprise a lot of people at what they could produce. We are breeding from fillies from the same family so why not the colt?
I have alway's believed that year's ago (talking 40 - 50 year's ago maybe more )we should have been importing good mare's instead of sire's to breed to our home grown colt's as i think we had the base of good sires throwing nice horse's from little more than sulky mare's,this is just my opinion. We have been guilty of breeding and buying only IMP sires as this is what the buyer's wanted but we also bred some real nice horse's that we raced from our "colonial sire's " This is just my thought's.

dizzy
07-31-2011, 06:48 PM
It would be nice if other costs of breeding could be covered by the scheme but service fees are likely to be the only administratively viable and auditable way.

A levy on the foals produced by a stallion over a set number could be a way of providing funding but may result in stallion owners increasing the fee to make the same or more money from a lessor number of mares to get round it. The major studs/stallion owners have also in many cases become major sponsors so increasing their costs could be counterproductive if it comes out of sponsorship budgets.

eliteblood
07-31-2011, 06:55 PM
Eliteblood you say
The only way to stop service fee $ from flowing to the USA is to improve the quality of our own colts so that they become a viable stallion alternative. We are not there yet but we are quickly closing the gap.

Yes this is a good idea but how is it done i firmly believe it is the mentality of the breeder and buyer that stop's this happening now because they haven't got IMP after their name that is breeder's that sell at yearling sales and also the buyer's that buy at the sales as is aid earlier if some of these better colt's got a chance with some top quality mare's they might surprise a lot of people at what they could produce.

Greg,

It is ingrained into us that IMP stallions are much superior to ours so it is going to be a long process to turn that around. Christian Cullen and to a lesser extent CUF have helped - we need some more like them. Classic Garry did a pretty good job as well.
Menangle will break down some barriers as it becomes more common for our horses to race down around the 1:50 mark.
Some possible initiatives to assist could be :-
Speed sulkies at Menangle to reduce the times further
Zero registration fees for Australian bred stallions
Zero registration fees for foals of Australian bred stallions

triplev123
07-31-2011, 07:07 PM
Any time you start restricting the field of choice (e.g. Australian based sires only) you risk defeating the purpose of any such idea...i.e. to breed the very best horses possible. The deplorable and thankfully now defunct NSW Sires Stakes presided over a Standardbred Genetics version of 'The Fall Of Rome'...by way of its ongoing support of mediocrity. Credits should be open to ALL sires, regardless of their geographical base.

aussiebreno
07-31-2011, 09:04 PM
Greg,

It is ingrained into us that IMP stallions are much superior to ours so it is going to be a long process to turn that around. Christian Cullen and to a lesser extent CUF have helped - we need some more like them. Classic Garry did a pretty good job as well.
Menangle will break down some barriers as it becomes more common for our horses to race down around the 1:50 mark.
Some possible initiatives to assist could be :-
Speed sulkies at Menangle to reduce the times further
Zero registration fees for Australian bred stallions
Zero registration fees for foals of Australian bred stallions
Agree.

smithy
08-01-2011, 01:20 AM
Any time you start restricting the field of choice (e.g. Australian based sires only) you risk defeating the purpose of any such idea...i.e. to breed the very best horses possible. The deplorable and thankfully now defunct NSW Sires Stakes presided over a Standardbred Genetics version of 'The Fall Of Rome'...by way of its ongoing support of mediocrity. Credits should be open to ALL sires, regardless of their geographical base.

this is exactly what i think will happen with the credits triple v - i think that it will support the moderate mares and the good mares were already going to decent stallions everyyear