alberto purdon

[thesushitrain]

this is a f** joke..how can he receive a 3k fine for presenting fly like an eagle to the races with clenbuterol in its system

this is the 2nd time hes been caught with a bronchdilator in the system of his horses and he walks away with a fine thats a weeks wages for him

i dont care how it got in his system, this is the biggest joke of all, the horse went on to win the final (60k to the winner) when he shouldnt have even been allowed to race in the final he should have been immediately disqualified from the series

if i owned village red i would be presenting m purdons owners with a bill for 3k that they should have received for making the final if their horse wasn't beaten by a doped horse

[aussiebreno]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIl5RxhLZ5U

But yes I agree with your sentiments

[mightymo]

this is a f** joke..how can he receive a 3k fine for presenting fly like an eagle to the races with clenbuterol in its system

this is the 2nd time hes been caught with a bronchdilator in the system of his horses and he walks away with a fine thats a weeks wages for him

i dont care how it got in his system, this is the biggest joke of all, the horse went on to win the final (60k to the winner) when he shouldnt have even been allowed to race in the final he should have been immediately disqualified from the series

if i owned village red i would be presenting m purdons owners with a bill for 3k that they should have received for making the final if their horse wasn't beaten by a doped horse

the horse won 2 heats of the series. would be interesting what would happen if he had only won the heat when he tested positive. There would be a good argument then that he wasnt eligible for the final

[Flashing Red]

Without knowing this case or its circumstances, I cannot believe that clenbuterol is a fine in NZ whereas one can loose a race with DMSO. THAT is the bigger joke, IMHO!!

[triplev123]

Without knowing this case or its circumstances, I cannot believe that clenbuterol is a fine in NZ whereas one can loose a race with DMSO. THAT is the bigger joke, IMHO!!

Good luck to Mark. At least he fronts up and takes his lumps like a man which is more than I can say for most of them (Geoff Small, I'm looking in your direction) however...that is EXACTLY what I was about to Post here Flashing. Great minds think alike. That is nothing short of an ABSOLUTE FREAKING SHAM. Clenbuterol scores a fine, DMSO might see them drop what???? 400k? GIMME A BREAK!

[aussiebreno]

Doesn't mean its alright to use anything illegal though just because of 'weird' scaling of consequences.

[triplev123]

Doesn't mean its alright to use anything illegal though just because of 'weird' scaling of consequences.

[VVV] No, of course not. It does however, on a relative basis, make absolutely no sense at all. Clenbuterol is a Schedule 4 controlled drug as I recall. On the other hand, you can buy DMSO on E-bay.

[Don Corleone]

Right with you guys on this one. It's JOKE.

[eljay]

Have you Aussies read the report of the hearing?

[Don Corleone]

No. Because it's in english.

[thesushitrain]

yes ive read the report

all the jca wanted to do was kiss and hug mark and tell him it was going to be alright

it went along the lines of 'hes incredibly successful, so therefore he couldnt be doping and must be someone elses fault'

i love part about his terrific record... its funny i always thought blue magic was one of worst scandals in racing but not the jca, second strike for doping should be mandatory 6 months

[nom de guerre]

DMSO sounds cooler...thats why.

[teecee]

It will always be difficult to understand how the system operates in Nz until you read and understand the rules.

Penalties are based on precedents. It's call fairness.
It's not relevant what the substance is that is involved nor how easy it is to get.
If it's on the list of prohibited substances then you face a charge.
The charges are of absolute liability. A positive sample is all the proof needed. It's not important how, when nor why iin the prosecution case. It's there so it's up to you to prove you the trainer did all possible to prevent such an occurrence.
Okay you can't so you plead GUILTY to the charge. Under these circumstances where it is impossible to prove in any jurisdiction after the event the full circumstances.
This along with the standard of required proof being civil (based on the standard of probability) rather than criminal (beyond reasonable doubt) means that penalties under these rules are by way of a fine.
Fines are set with a standard start point...
add on for any aggravating factors
Credit for any mitigating factors...

Add on for convictions to a NOT GUILTY Plea
Add on for taking into account the Status of the race....More for G1 than G2 or G3

Then we come up with a penalty consistent across all similar such cases.
Most such cases are considered to be negligence rather than any deliberate attempt or corrupt practise.

The rules covering the horse are also written for simplicity.
If guilty then disqualification is mandatory.

If you want an interesting case in point I recommend HRNZ vs AFH Hunter Jan 2011
sourced from www.jca.org.nz (http://www.jca.org.nz)

Virtually all positive swab cases under NZ rules of Harness racing are dealt with under these 3 rules so there is plenty of precedent to arrive at a fair penalty.
Rules 1001,1002 and 1004

These are the sames rules as the smoken up case so there are also plenty of precedents for that case should a guity verdict arise. The only variable is the not guilty plea and the extended hearing which will bring penalty surcharge and aditional costs awards.
Mark Purdon is penalised like us all under the rules for what he does not who he is.

[thesushitrain]

What crap, that is precedent for smoken up, not fly like an eagle

Let me know where a trainer has got that small a penalty for a second offense? Not to mention the fine was smaller then what the owners of the emergency starter should have earnt from making the final

If mark is such a saint how did blue magic end up in his horses?

[teecee]

What Crap indeed...Some facts...
Because Fly Like an Eagle won 2 heats he was already eligible for the final.
In winning two heats he thus increased rather than decreased the chances of that other horse making the finals by effectively taking 2 finals spots opening up the final spot to a horse who hadn't earned enuff poiunts to be there.

Also read back through the hearing evidence and it is the prosecutor making the glowing comments.

Blue Magic was more than 5 years ago. Mark Purdon was not convicted of using it nor even possessing it. Thus it is not part of his record. He pleaded Guilty to other charges after making the first approach to the authorities when they had no evidence against him

[Southern Man]

Without wanting to relitigate the blue magic saga, it is obvious from your comments that you have a very limited understanding of the events and the saga as it played out in Canterbury at the time. Before you go throwing insults in anyones direction it may help to know a bit more about your subject matter than you presently do. As for the recent positive in Auckland, all that did was confirm the problems associated with running satelite stables which are not under your direct control. Ultimately the registered trainer carries the can for what happens at stables operated under his name regardless of who has transgressed. As a result of this error the employee who has been with the Purdon operation for several years no longer works for Purdon. To prevent a reoccurance the stable in Auckland was shut. Could Purdon have done more more to prevent what happened. Maybe. But to suggest that Purdon is somehow rorting the system and has got off a serious charge is just plain wrong.

[thesushitrain]

im not impying at all that he is rorting the system

the fact is that he has a history of using prohibited substances, he was caught with another one and instead of being properly punished he coped nothing because hes a big name

but you kiwi guys seem more then happy with how its turned out, its no surprise you'll be racing for ribbons in 10 years and mark will just pick up his stable and leave

[Southern Man]

No we just judge each case on its merits. In this case in Auckland it was clear there was no intent to deceive, just a mistake by an employee which cost him his employment and cost his employer a fine. Throw in the cost of the closure of the Auckland stable and it has been an expensive experience for Purdon. As for Nz having issues with the integrity of its racing we in the land of the long white cloud can only look with envy at how clean racing is on your side of the Tasman. We have given up watching reruns of Underbelly. Sydney harness racing is much more fun

[ringman]

What crap, that is precedent for smoken up, not fly like an eagle

Let me know where a trainer has got that small a penalty for a second offense? Not to mention the fine was smaller then what the owners of the emergency starter should have earnt from making the final

If mark is such a saint how did blue magic end up in his horses?

here here Exactly the more you get caught the lesser the penalty it appears to be.

[Just because]

I can't believe that people buy horses from M Purdon. For every 10 he moves on about 1 does o.k and that is normally not for an extended period of time.

[triplev123]

In all fairness, surely that applies across the board to horses purchased from virtually all big stable/top end successful trainers.

[Southern Man]

You can not be serious about horses sold out of Mark Purdons stable not performing. Off the top of my head in the last 12 months are horses such as Highview Ebony, Glengowan,Mereidith Maguire, Ohokas Bondy to name just a few. The one thing you can not control when you sell horses to Australia is the calibre of the trainer to whom they are going. Some are great, some not so great and results vary accordingly.

[Flashing Red]

I can't believe that people buy horses from M Purdon. For every 10 he moves on about 1 does o.k and that is normally not for an extended period of time.

It's hard to improve horses off a very good, professional, trainer - rather than for example someone who does it as a hobby. :)

[Just because]

I shouldn't have put this on this thread. I am not insinuating that every horse from the barn is full to the eyeballs. But I have watched horses come to Australia for about 20-25 yrs from Mark Purdon or the Purdons and they rarely repay their purchase price. I understand that they are probably going to lesser trainers. But most trainers are kidding themselves if they think they will get a nugget to train in Australia from M Purdon.

Would be interested if someone could give me some horses imported (sold) to Australia from Mark Purdon over the past 20-25 years that have paid their way(purchase and training).

[Just because]

* Exported

[trigger]

dominus vobiscom

[triplev123]

..and also with you, Trigger. ;)

[thesushitrain]

i think lance is in the best position to let us know about high priced horses that were no good!

[Southern Man]

The number of good horses who have more than paid their way would probably start with Another Party($ 888,000) or maybe Tricky Vic ($530,000) or maybe last seasons 3yr old Ohokas Bondy($275,000) to date and rising. Maybe some of the ones sold to America such as Hez Da Man-- Tactical Rein--Classic Cullen--Inner Success--Seelstar Belle--Jays Debut--Mighty Cullen who have all won in excess of $250,000 would fit the bill. Mark Purdons record of selling horses which pay their way for their new owners is outstanding. The facts dont lie

[thesushitrain]

i didn't realise purdon has only sold 10 horses southern man? there would another 150 nobody has every heard of

[Flashing Red]

i didn't realise purdon has only sold 10 horses southern man? there would another 150 nobody has every heard of

How is that any different from other well regarded and professional stables??

[thesushitrain]

nothing, i never said purdon is any different with selling horses

im taking objection at southern man who thinks mark only sells horses that go on to win millions

[Flashing Red]

I'm sure he would not have been nearly as successful if he sold ALL his good ones :)

[Southern Man]

Well Sushitrain I will wait now with baited breath for your list of the 150 who have failed. I dont want to see opinion---FACTS--- Thats what we need. This debate started because it was suggested that Mark Purdon mostly sold horses that didnt go on for their new trainers when the facts suggest most do. Not all. There will always be horses who dont adjust to the climate, stable, trainer but most do. Mark Purdon has no trouble selling horses to Australia for the simple reason that most earn their way in their new country. Russley Rascal is just the latest example. Brought for a six figure sum by Australians who have had success buying from the stable in the past. Will Russley Rascal suceed in Perth. History would say yes

[thesushitrain]

that is an impossible task, you'd need a list of exported horses directly from nz

you think your right because you can see the big name horses winning, you can't see all the ones broken down, bleeding and racing for 1,00 bucks

[Southern Man]

Unfortunately you are just typical of a lot a people in this industry who are quick to denigrate the high achievers but always with heresay, innuendo and opinion but NEVER with FACTS. When challenged they cant produce . You need to front. Simple as that. Otherwise its not Purdons crediability that is diminished but yours.

[thesushitrain]

it seems even harnesslink loves mark!

[Southern Man]

Im still waiting for the big list of Purdon flops. Doesnt seem to be forth coming at the moment. I would hate for you to forget what you posted here. 150 who havnt made the grade which were sold out of Mark Purdons stable. I assume you are a man of integerity and you will post the list shortly.

[Flashing Red]

it seems even harnesslink loves mark!

No. You can blame me, sorry. I have no connection with Mr Purdon... you just have to be careful with what you post. I am looking out for Harnesslink. Sorry, nothing personal.

[thesushitrain]

Auckland reactor

[Southern Man]

Is that it. One horse. Syndicated for $4,000,000 to half a dozen of the most sucessful breeders and stud farms on the planet. Won over $1,300,000 since syndication and due to race again. Obviously a dud. I mean horse of the year twice in Nz . You should have warned those Americans. But is that it. When Auckland Reactor is in the ground is the only time you will know weather he has paid his way. He will definitely get a real shot at being a stallion in Nz when he retires. Will he repay his purchase price. Unlikely but not impossible. So at this point I may have to concede one. Just 149 to go . If you want i can eliminate some more horses from your list of ones to check. Take off both Full of Fire and Mark Antony who are both six figure earners after leaving Mark Purdons. Anyway I await the list of 149 who are not paying their way. Please enlighten us

[thesushitrain]

You sound a bit like Natalie, you've hot the jackpot no more working at liquor land

The horse earnt nothing once he left purdons stables and they couldn't get mares to him, that's why he's back at purdons

Same as god send

Yeah keep listing horses bought by frost, you can guarantee his owners paid double to get them

[Southern Man]

As with all your posts , no facts just rubbish. Auckland Reactor has won well over $1,000,000 since being purchased from the Parkers as a late 3yr old, almost all of that from Mark Purdons stable. The reason he was withdrawn from stud was a dispute between the owners. Some wanted to race him, some wanted to stand him at stud which led to the crazy idea to race and stand at stud at the same time. As a result of that dispute Auckland Reactor was resyndicated by the owners who wanted to race him. The big carrot was the $4,000,000 tax loss which he will have beside his name when he goes to stud. Again they are the facts, not rumour or heresay. I see you mention God Send. Mark Purdon never sold him so why he is mentioned is beyond me. True to form you finish with a slur on Vic Frosts reputation. But i will continue to remind you --149 to go. The clock is ticking.

[Southern Man]

Where are you Mr Sushitrain. Where are the 149 horses you stated that Mark Purdon had sold that had failed to pay their way. You have regularly defamed people on this site yet when asked to produce the evidence to back up your claims you go quiet. Says it all really

[thesushitrain]

my posts were removed you muppet

let me know when AR owners get their 3 million back

[triplev123]

my posts were removed you muppet

[VVV] Like so many others eh Buster.

[justdoit]

A serious question-
Didn't a guy from Sydney buy the horse? and I have not heard or read the latest on how he is going(the horse, not the new owner)

Thesushitrain, the initial money that was spent, got put down to experience by the NA buyers. Not to much complaining done!!

[Southern Man]

No one is that thick surely. Stallions when they go to stud have a depreciation value which equates to their purchase price. Regardless of what they win. In this case that equates to $4,000,000. But get back to the point. Where are the other 149 horses that have failed to earn their way. Surely you would not have gone on this site and bagged trainers such as Mark Purdon or Vic Frost without some hard evidence to back it up. FACTS . But still, despite numerous opportunities, you havnt produced any. Just abuse. One could easily come to the conclusion you dont know what you are talking about.

[thesushitrain]

Vic frost! Ha and I've got no idea? Frost = Ian frost from ballarat

I hope the tax office pays well because standing a stallion no one wants doesnt

What you think is abuse is simply telling truths about marks history, says slot about him doesn't it

[Southern Man]

Still no 149 horses. Stop evading the issue. Name the horses. You made the statement now back it up. As of now you havnt produced one fact.EVERYTHING you have posted regarding Auckland Reactor has been 100% wrong. You just need to get your facts right. So the list of 149 horses is all that is required to prove that you do deal in facts and are not just a blowhard