Bill Robinson was and is probably the greatest horseman that ever lived.

[Vance Hanover]

I started this thread as a result of comments made on the 'Muscle Massive (Prematurely) Retired (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?57-Muscle-Massive-(Prematurely)-Retired)'.

For those of you that do not know the history of Bill Robinson here are his stastitics as of today. As a trainer he has had 8173 starts for 2617 wins, 1283 seconds, 974 thirds for $53,180,772 in stakes with a UDRs of .447 and his last start was on the 12th of December 2010 Sunday just gone.

For anyone to say that he is not a great horseman / trainer then I would like them to show me a trainer with better stastitics than what I have shown above.

As I feel that this forum is a ligitimate one I hope that readers can keep to facts and a real discussion develop and not let this thread turn into a battleground.

[Allan]

I started this thread as a result of comments made on the 'Muscle Massive (Prematurely) Retired (http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?57-Muscle-Massive-(Prematurely)-Retired)'.

For those of you that do not know the history of Bill Robinson here are his stastitics as of today. As a trainer he has had 8173 starts for 2617 wins, 1283 seconds, 974 thirds for $53,180,772 in stakes with a UDRs of .447 and his last start was on the 12th of December 2010 Sunday just gone.

For anyone to say that he is not a great horseman / trainer then I would like them to show me a trainer with better stastitics than what I have shown above.

As I feel that this forum is a ligitimate one I hope that readers can keep to facts and a real discussion develop and not let this thread turn into a battleground.

Can you give me his full name and date of birth so I may look him up on Pathways before responding. Then I can respond with facts

[Vance Hanover]

Hi Alan you can respond with the facts that you believe in at any time. It will be interesting to get the many comments on this subject. I only hope it is a worthwhile debate without any slanderous remarks. Just the facts will be fine. Looking forward to the discussion.

[justdoit]

Hi Vance Hanover,
Your joking right.. is this like a late or early? April fools day. He can a train a horse, the only problem is that he tries very hard to please his owners:) and at
times he or one of his staff have mistakenly injected or feed a band substance to a horse, not knowing what it was or what they were doing ??What the f---,did I just say he can train a horse.
Sorry I am getting confused. Yes he has won allot of races, would be interested in the stats/facts for the number of wins racing clean?
Did he change his name a couple of times? yes and that is a FACT.

[Vance Hanover]

I thought that this forum was going to stop abuse swearing and the like?
Take a look at the facts, not hearsay justdoit, there is no point in joining the crowd with false accusations that you have tried to insinuate with your post.

Regardless of your hearsay thoughts justdoit the facts are here for all to see.

Now make sure you look at the UDRs of each and evey year.

Source: Standardbred Canada.

Year Starts Wins Seconds Thirds Money UDR Last Raced

2010 153 40 24 17 $179,044 0.385 12-DEC-2010 FLMD

2009 405 101 61 53 $783,646 0.376 31-DEC-2009 GEODF

2008 245 63 27 27 $418,933 0.353 31-DEC-2008 FLMD

2007 84 25 10 15 $161,872 0.423 31-DEC-2007 GEODF

2006 114 47 14 13 $272,377 0.518 30-DEC-2006 FLMD

2004 77 20 9 11 $168,072 0.372 11-APR-2004 FLMD


2003 1844 381 291 217 $10,849,982 0.334 29-DEC-2003 LON


2002 1463 337 231 182 $11,481,299 0.360 30-DEC-2002 FLMD

2000 193 42 28 28 $656,399 0.347 24-APR-2000 MOH S


1999 487 62 67 55 $1,825,697 0.241 31-DEC-1999 MOH S

1998 56 21 9 3 $432,482 0.482 19-DEC-1998 YR

1997 77 25 17 6 $1,087,179 0.473 20-DEC-1997 YR

1996 43 13 12 5 $372,182 0.496 19-SEP-1996 DELA

1995 805 182 110 88 $3,682,082 0.338 31-DEC-1995 WDB S

1994 748 186 132 95 $5,455,095 0.389 31-DEC-1994 WDB S

1993 736 193 131 85 $4,355,610 0.400 31-DEC-1993 GRR F

1992 643 169 110 74 $2,796,358 0.396 29-DEC-1992 PPK F

prior 0 546 0 0 $1,462,539 0.000

LIFE: 8173 2617 1283 974 $53,180,772 0.447 12-DEC-2010 FLMD

His UDR is as good as it gets and notice that it is consistant every year and regardless of what any person says without looking at the facts Bill Robinson still today produces a very good UDR.

[justdoit]

Thanks Vance, you are right the forum moderators should do their job and stop abuse swearing and the likes of this statement-Bill Robinson was and is probably the greatest horseman that ever lived.
You win.

[jammsb]

Vance, You fail to mention the number of positives incurred, penalty days, substantial and race tracks that Robinson is barred from. These as well as his racing results are part of the record. What you are saying is comparable to saying that if a world renowned cyclist is defeated by a cyclist who has a motor attached to his bicycle, then he was defeated by a better cyclist. If you were saying that Mr Robinson is the greatest chemist to ever participate in Harness Racing, then I would have no argument with you.

[jammsb]

That should read "substantial fines"

[somebeachsomewhere]

Bill Robinson never got caught with syringes in a stakes barn. Jimmy Takter did and basically walked. Horse was owned by OJC execs. If that was a Robinson horse, the media would have been alerted. Bill Robinson has had a bigger impact on horse racing than any other trainer of all time. Sure hes used chemicals, but who hasnt. Can you tell me Jim Takter, Bob McIntosh, Brett Pelling to name a few have never used EPO. Like Vance said there has never been and never will be a better trainer in racing than Robinson. I can recall a friend telling me the first time Somebeachsomewhere raced in Ontario, Robinson was on the phone saying this was probably the best horse he has ever seen. In fact, they called and offered 600 for him two hrs after the race. A lot of money to ask for a horse who raced a few times, but this man knew this was a special horse. My point is, he has a great eye for horses, always has and always will.

[DWJ]

I've heard of many issues regarding Bill Robinson over the years, but let the officials make the decisions over what he has done or been accused of. Jimmy Takter on the other hand is no saint and should be and judged the same as others. We had a horse in the same race as Jimmy Takter and if I remember correctly, syringes were in possession of people employed by Jimmy Takter. What did he get, again if I remember correctly, a fine of $25,000 which is nothing to him, allowed to race in the Elegant Image and won. Not only that race but picked up substantial purse money in other races!

[jammsb]

SBSW. I'm no great horseman. The first time I saw SBSW race I knew he was one of the greatest of all time. Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder would have known that and they've never seen a race or a horse.

[jammsb]

You say that Takter's trangression have been overlooked. They have not been. If not for at least two notable offences he would have been in the Hall of Fame years ago. He will eventually get there as he should. The ifiot who says that all the great horsemen who he says have used EPO needs to substantiate his claims. There is a significant difference between EPO and a more serious class positive.

[justdoit]

Hey jammsb, that is the funniest post yet to be posted on this entire forum, sorry I find this funny.
THE IFIOT hahahaha

[justdoit]

I do not train horses, so can the trainers get a list of drugs for use, banned drugs etc etc... the answer is YES
The one thing that is needed is consistency in the fines etc that are handed out.

[jsday]

first parimutuel start 54/2 on a half mile......has that ever been done before?

[Allan]

Isn't it kind of sad that we are even talking about trainers with tainted records as being great. Is there any reason why we have problems?

I know a trainer who won't touch claimers. Claims you can't play the claiming game without resorting to cheating. Of course, this trainer stays with solid conditioned horses and never has had a positive. Will probably never ever get mentioned,

[justdoit]

Hello Allan, what is his/her name?