Melbourne Premium Sale

[Starship Captain]

http://www.apgold.com.au/apgold/index.cfm/yearling-sales/2012-sales/melbourne-premium/

Just had a quick look, my first pick
Lot 32 Counterfeit Girl- Art Major Colt


Lot 40- the dam is the dam of the dam of Lot 15 & Lot 18.
I know what I mean.

[mango]

[QUOTE=Starship Captain;14027]http://www.apgold.com.au/apgold/index.cfm/yearling-sales/2012-sales/melbourne-premium/

Just had a quick look, my first pick
Lot 32 Counterfeit Girl- Art Major Colt

Hi Jason

I had a look at Lot 361 Grinfromeartoear - Counterfeit Chic colt in the Sydney sale yesty and he is a very nice type and from the same family as your pick Lot 32. I've seen a photo of Lot 43 Art Major - All Eyes On Me colt and he looks like he has size and length and well put together and the other one i have seen which was 3wks ago is a cracking Christian Cullen - Muscle Beach colt he is just your typical Cullen.

[Greg Hando]

The granddam of lot's 15 & 18 i think is what you mean
Lot 44 for anybody looking for a foundation mare to start with

[Starship Captain]

Hi mango, I have followed many the offspring from this family and would love to get a filly that is out of Counterfeit Girl.
Also looking forward to the video & Photos.
Lot 44 would be nice, there is the odd lot in this sale that made me go WTF is this doing in there:) they must have needed to make up the numbers.

[mo cushla]

I am very pleased with my colt Lot 174 by Western Ideal from a metro winning 2 yr old. Disappointed that he was not selected for Premium Sale. In hindsight it may be a blessing. A lot of trainers / buyers I know are not buying at the Premium Sale. I don't think the Melbourne / Sydney split has worked well. Ten Sydney horses in the Melbourne sale is a slap in the face to Victorian breeders.

[aussiebreno]

http://www.apgold.com.au/apgold/index.cfm/yearling-sales/2012-sales/melbourne-premium/

Just had a quick look, my first pick
Lot 32 Counterfeit Girl- Art Major Colt


Lot 40- the dam is the dam of the dam of Lot 15 & Lot 18.
I know what I mean.
Nice pick Starship. I've got the Counterfeit Girl colt in my 'top5' in Mango's thread. http://www.harnessracingforum.com/showthread.php?1962-Yearling-Sale-s

[eliteblood]

I just came across an interesting yearling.
His 3rd dam was inducted into the USTA Hall of Fame, and is ancestress of six $1 million+ winners
His dam is a full sister to another USTA Hall of Fame inductee
His dam was placed in two Miracle Miles, won 3 Newcastle Miles, won 2 Ladyship Miles and was placed 2nd in 2 Ladyship Miles
He is a half brother to an Australian 3YO Pacer of the Year, winner of 16 consecutive races incl Breeders Crown, Breeders Challenge, Vic Derby, Great Northern Derby.

[mango]

I am very pleased with my colt Lot 174 by Western Ideal from a metro winning 2 yr old. Disappointed that he was not selected for Premium Sale. In hindsight it may be a blessing. A lot of trainers / buyers I know are not buying at the Premium Sale. I don't think the Melbourne / Sydney split has worked well. Ten Sydney horses in the Melbourne sale is a slap in the face to Victorian breeders.

Hi Stuart

I agree there shouldn't of been a split, there should only be one premium sale and it should of been held in Sydney this year as people in n.s.w have had to travel to Victoria for the last 3yrs. Also as it's an Australian Pacing Gold sale people are well within there right to nominate there yearling's for which ever sale they so choose. I'm sorry that your colt has missed out and hopefully for you it does turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

[mango]

I just came across an interesting yearling.
His 3rd dam was inducted into the USTA Hall of Fame broodmare, and is ancestress of six $1 million+ winners
His dam is a full sister to another USTA Hall of Fame inductee
His dam was placed in two Miracle Miles, won 3 Newcastle Miles, won 2 Ladyship Miles and was placed 2nd in 2 Ladyship Miles
He is a half brother to an Australian 3YO Pacer of the Year, winner of 16 consecutive races incl Breeders Crown, Breeders Challenge, Vic Derby, Great Northern Derby.

Hi Trevor

I can't work this yearling out can you give me some more clue's (JUST JOKING)

[eliteblood]

Hi Trevor

I can't work this yearling out can you give me some more clue's (JUST JOKING)

Some more clues Dallas ......

His 2nd dam is a half sister to very successful sires Dragons Lair (5 in 1:50) and Cole Muffler (14 in 1:50)
He is from the same maternal family as Artsplace, Bret Hanover, Artiscape, Cambest, Dragon Again and Western Terror

[Starship Captain]

A good friend has truck's, one of them being a top of the range Kenworth. He sound's exactly the same and he never stop's telling me how good his truck's are,
even worse he is right:)

[eliteblood]

A good friend has truck's, one of them being a top of the range Kenworth. He sound's exactly the same and he never stop's telling me how good his truck's are,
even worse he is right:)

Sorry about that Jason but I feel exactly the same way about Sabilize as your friend does about his truck. Looking at the yearling selections within this thread, I get the impression that some people are dismissing Sushi Sushi as a fluke so I wanted to raise the awareness of the magnificent bloodlines that exist within Sabilize and which resulted in the making of Sushi.
Almost everyone overlooked Sushi when offered as a yearling three years ago. What a big mistake that turned out to be.

[Starship Captain]

No one could say anything negative about Sushi Sushi as a race horse or on pedigree, do you have a picture of the yearling? and I am getting the impression that come sale day you would be a whole heap of fun to be around:)

[mango]

Sorry about that Jason but I feel exactly the same way about Sabilize as your friend does about his truck. Looking at the yearling selections within this thread, I get the impression that some people are dismissing Sushi Sushi as a fluke so I wanted to raise the awareness of the magnificent bloodlines that exist within Sabilize and which resulted in the making of Sushi.
Almost everyone overlooked Sushi when offered as a yearling three years ago. What a big mistake that turned out to be.

Hi Trevor

I never dismissed your colt cause of pedigree i dismissed him as he is a colt and my top 5 picks are fillies.

[aussiebreno]

Trevor, (all are welcome to reply)

Don't take this as an attack, I'm not being a smart arse. Genuinely want to know this for a while and your posts have triggered it from my memory bank.

But why do you sell if you think the yearling is so good. Yeah you made some money on Sushi Sushi at the yearling sales and get a % of wins, and even thought thats nothing to complain about, you could have won a whole damn sight more if you'd kept him (this isn't just a Sushi Sushi thing but any good horse that comes from a yearling sale).

I get how some may only be into breeding rather than racing. But to me its like this - if Cronulla have a good young halfback (eg yearling) in the Toyota Cup I'd rather see him winning best and fairests at Cronulla (for his breeder) rather than winning best and fairests at St George (new owner). So how come you just don't keep your foals for racing?

Or is there more money, across the board, in breeding in your opinion? In which case the mass breeders complaining about sale prices each year annoys me even more. If they're so bad then race the thing yourself! Again not at you personally as I've never heard you say that, just a generalisation of breeders.

Not being a horse breeder myself I want to tap into the minds of those who are!
Cheers

[Starship Captain]

For us it come's down to cost, we would love to race all our foals but the cost's involved in doing that make's it necessary for us to sell some of them.

[eliteblood]

Trevor, (all are welcome to reply)

Don't take this as an attack, I'm not being a smart arse. Genuinely want to know this for a while and your posts have triggered it from my memory bank.

But why do you sell if you think the yearling is so good. Yeah you made some money on Sushi Sushi at the yearling sales and get a % of wins, and even thought thats nothing to complain about, you could have won a whole damn sight more if you'd kept him (this isn't just a Sushi Sushi thing but any good horse that comes from a yearling sale).

I get how some may only be into breeding rather than racing. But to me its like this - if Cronulla have a good young halfback (eg yearling) in the Toyota Cup I'd rather see him winning best and fairests at Cronulla (for his breeder) rather than winning best and fairests at St George (new owner). So how come you just don't keep your foals for racing?

Or is there more money, across the board, in breeding in your opinion? In which case the mass breeders complaining about sale prices each year annoys me even more. If they're so bad then race the thing yourself! Again not at you personally as I've never heard you say that, just a generalisation of breeders.

Not being a horse breeder myself I want to tap into the minds of those who are!
Cheers

Hi Brendan,

As Jason replied, it's a matter of trying to balance the books.
I had kept every Sabilize foal prior to Sushi. That amounted to a very expensive exercise with high priced service fees, agistment, vet fees and training fees. I would have liked to have kept Sushi because I always thought it was only a matter of time that Sabilize threw a top class horse but I had dug a pretty deep hole and got to the position whereby I had to try and recoup some money. It was a case of take $35k or spend another $10k + and perhaps end up with nothing. Obviously, I made a very, very, very bad decision. (How cruel can the gods be !!!)
The "mass breeders complaining about sale prices" are not just whingers. It is a very tough game but you can make some good money at times if you own the right mare at the right time and put her to the right stallion.

[Danno]

Hi Brendan,

As Jason replied, it's a matter of trying to balance the books.
I had kept every Sabilize foal prior to Sushi. That amounted to a very expensive exercise with high priced service fees, agistment, vet fees and training fees. I would have liked to have kept Sushi because I always thought it was only a matter of time that Sabilize threw a top class horse but I had dug a pretty deep hole and got to the position whereby I had to try and recoup some money. It was a case of take $35k or spend another $10k + and perhaps end up with nothing. Obviously, I made a very, very, very bad decision. (How cruel can the gods be !!!)
The "mass breeders complaining about sale prices" are not just whingers. It is a very tough game but you can make some good money at times if you own the right mare at the right time and put her to the right stallion.

Geez Trevor, I didn't realise you were that stiff, as in he was the first foal from her you sold!
Being a Hunter Valley bloke I managed to see Sabilize in action a few times and have also had the privilidge of casting my eye over Sushi as well, by golly he looks so much like his mother to me, only a smaller version ( which personally, I believe, can work in many horses' favour... I don't buy the " good big horse better than a good little horse adage).

Did the mare throw her type to previous foals?.. just curious, a hobby breeder myself.

Cheers,
Dan

[aussiebreno]

Hi Brendan,

As Jason replied, it's a matter of trying to balance the books.
I had kept every Sabilize foal prior to Sushi. That amounted to a very expensive exercise with high priced service fees, agistment, vet fees and training fees. Agree I would have liked to have kept Sushi because I always thought it was only a matter of time that Sabilize threw a top class horse but I had dug a pretty deep hole and got to the position whereby I had to try and recoup some money. More than fair enough It was a case of take $35k or spend another $10k + and perhaps end up with nothing.Fair enough Obviously, I made a very, very, very bad decision. (How cruel can the gods be !!!) Look at the positives, you've bred an absolute superstar.
The "mass breeders complaining about sale prices" are not just whingers. I'd love it if everyone in the industry was able to make a dollar but the mass breeders must take into account buyers could 'spend another $10k + and perhaps end up with nothing' - again not directed at you just at the mass breeders. I really do wish the stallion owners, broodmare owners and sales companies could all make a crust but that extra $10K of profit could also be a buyers $10K loss. It is a very tough game but you can make some good money at times if you own the right mare at the right time and put her to the right stallion.As you should with Sushi's little brother, best of luck come sales day
I take it you also own Formalize?

[eliteblood]

Geez Trevor, I didn't realise you were that stiff, as in he was the first foal from her you sold!
Being a Hunter Valley bloke I managed to see Sabilize in action a few times and have also had the privilidge of casting my eye over Sushi as well, by golly he looks so much like his mother to me, only a smaller version ( which personally, I believe, can work in many horses' favour... I don't buy the " good big horse better than a good little horse adage).

Did the mare throw her type to previous foals?.. just curious, a hobby breeder myself.

Cheers,
Dan

Hi Dan,

You can see some of Sabilize in most of her foals but they have generally been better overall types then what she is.
There is a Ponder 2YO grand-daughter however that does look very much like her. Unfortunately, it only has one eye. Some might say that it takes after me :)

[Danno]

Hi Dan,

You can see some of Sabilize in most of her foals but they have generally been better overall types then what she is.
There is a Ponder 2YO grand-daughter however that does look very much like her. Unfortunately, it only has one eye. Some might say that it takes after me :)

Ha Ha, your entitled to be a bit one eyed, in my opinion, Sabilize was and is a great mare and we are seeing through her son the benefit of your investment in the breed, I can see what you say about "overall type" , but to my eye her build ( and that same build I see in Sushi Sushi ) was not "pretty" but a frame designed for speed.

Probably one of the multitude of reasons, Art Major worked? He being so perfectly balanced in conformation? I see Art Major is crossing very well with Safely Kept mares thus far and similarly ( whilst there is also an obvious outcross advantage) the safely kept mares are generally quite angular, built for speed types.

Additionally I think Art major is getting good results from mares that could get "on the toe" a bit, and getting a few from other types of mares that are inclined to be a bit too relaxed.

Cheers,

Dan

[Starship Captain]

Hi Aussiebreno,
I will post the breeding history of 5 of our most recent mares and offspring with the all costs, to help you get a better understanding of
why breeders complain.

[eliteblood]

I sold Formalize about 18 months ago

[Greg Hando]

Don't knock yourself for selling Sushi Trevor he may not have turned out like he has with someone else training him it's obvious the horse is happy and enjoying racing but with someone else he might have been a sour squib or if like me he would have got hurt in the paddock then you would have kicked yourself for not considering to sell him.

[eliteblood]

Don't knock yourself for selling Sushi Trevor he may not have turned out like he has with someone else training him it's obvious the horse is happy and enjoying racing but with someone else he might have been a sour squib or if like me he would have got hurt in the paddock then you would have kicked yourself for not considering to sell him.

That's true Greg. I don't beat myself up for selling him because it was the right thing to do at the time. I obviously get a great thrill and satisfaction from watching him race.

[Greg Hando]

Yeah it's a great thrill to watch what you breed race and win, and one thing is for sure if you sell a good horse they'll come back and get another one off you 9 times out of ten.

[aussiebreno]

Hi Aussiebreno,
I will post the breeding history of 5 of our most recent mares and offspring with the all costs, to help you get a better understanding of
why breeders complain.
Cheers, even if you want to Private message.

[Starship Captain]

1- Purchased mare$10,000 infoal $3,000 early Febuary. 10 Months($4,700) later, foaling good, foal was allergic to mares milk foal DEAD(not exact on this cost but was around $800). Bred mare$4,500 and infoal($1,100). 11 Months($5170) later foaling good extra cost ??of feeding foal, bred mare $5,500 and back infoal($750), 7 Months($3290) later foal weaned. Weanlings 9 Months($2565) later, the yearlings are put inside 3 Months later($2610) Sold to the highest bidder. These costs do not include ABC, APG, rego, transport, our time, etc we do a lot ourselves because we enjoy the horses. This mare got off to a bad start, but we have faith that she will produce a good race horse.
You can see the time involved to produce a yearling(40 Months for this mare)and the costs are not at all small, to tell someone that has put the time and money into breeding a horse that they should not complain about the price they get is a little harsh and then to say you should race them all is just silly.


One is enough:)

[aussiebreno]

1- Purchased mare$10,000 infoal $3,000 early Febuary. 10 Months($4,700) later, foaling good, foal was allergic to mares milk foal DEAD(not exact on this cost but was around $800). Bred mare$4,500 and infoal($1,100). 11 Months($5170) later foaling good extra cost ??of feeding foal, bred mare $5,500 and back infoal($750), 7 Months($3290) later foal weaned. Weanlings 9 Months($2565) later, the yearlings are put inside 3 Months later($2610) Sold to the highest bidder. These costs do not include ABC, APG, rego, transport, our time, etc we do a lot ourselves because we enjoy the horses. This mare got off to a bad start, but we have faith that she will produce a good race horse.
You can see the time involved to produce a yearling(40 Months for this mare)and the costs are not at all small, to tell someone that has put the time and money into breeding a horse that they should not complain about the price they get is a little harsh and then to say you should race them all is just silly.


One is enough:)
Yep, high costs as I thought. But do you also understand why sale prices aren't as high as everybody (me included) would like? Fair enough prices are too low, but you can't blame people for not buying when one isn't prepared to race its self. By all means recoup some funds but those who breed to sell should have some understanding of the costs involved in racing therefore should know prices aren't going to be extravagant - and therefore not be surprised at low sale prices.
From the start you have to be prepared for that but I think some breeders are scratching their head and dumbfounded when prices don't meet their expectations, and actually think they will get $40,000 when in reality $20,000 is something close to the sale value.
I might be off the ball - but too me it seems some are whinging about buyers not parting with their money as opposed to whinging against the reasons why buyers aren't parting with their money.
By all means recoup losses - but I don't see the need in moaning and groaning about not getting enough money upon sale. If that's the case don't breed, or expect to make money out of it, or race it yourself. I know if I keep getting burnt I don't go down the same path time and time again with nothing changing.
At the same time I would dearly love prize-money to go up to encourage higher prices yearlings - whinge about that not buyers not paying enough!!! (Which I'm sure most are, just a few who seem oblivious and think buyers should be paying more in the current climate)

[Starship Captain]

Complaining about lost money is not isolated to standardbred breeders.
Breeder's are themselves a special breed and have a PASSION to produce race horse's, to see a foal born, raise it to an age that it can be sold and then have it race and win. Being there at the track is just the most awesome experience. The up's and down's of breeding and parting with some money would give you a much better understanding, but firstly you will need to find a mare or filly that you are absolutely in LOVE with and that you believe 110% she is capable of producing a good race horse. When you find that mare and see that first foal you will be hooked, you will most likely pay what ever it take's to make sure it is looked after correctly, even when the chance of getting a return on that money is very slim.

[Danno]

Complaining about lost money is not isolated to standardbred breeders.
Breeder's are themselves a special breed and have a PASSION to produce race horse's, to see a foal born, raise it to an age that it can be sold and then have it race and win. Being there at the track is just the most awesome experience. The up's and down's of breeding and parting with some money would give you a much better understanding, but firstly you will need to find a mare or filly that you are absolutely in LOVE with and that you believe 110% she is capable of producing a good race horse. When you find that mare and see that first foal you will be hooked, you will most likely pay what ever it take's to make sure it is looked after correctly, even when the chance of getting a return on that money is very slim.


Well said jason, I cannot think of one person I've met in my 40 odd years involvement, be they breeders,owners, trainers etc. that have not had the passion for the horses and the game.
If that passion were not there the game would have died long ago. Nobody I know is in this game for purely for a buck, there have been some who have lost their way......and in saying that I have no problem with people making an honest living doing what they love to do.. good on them!

But at some stage we have all "got hooked", and thats what keeps many of us going..waiting for the next handy horse...hoping for a Karloo Mick ( and never daring to dream for a Blacks a Fake)

My main current hope is that our game can be cleaned up properly after all the recent fallout.....
Cheers,

Dan

[aussiebreno]

Complaining about lost money is not isolated to standardbred breeders.
Absolutely - poor business sense. As you've pointed out before most people aren't in racing for business but for the passion and love.
Breeder's are themselves a special breed and have a PASSION to produce race horse's, to see a foal born, raise it to an age that it can be sold and then have it race and win. Being there at the track is just the most awesome experience. The up's and down's of breeding and parting with some money would give you a much better understanding, but firstly you will need to find a mare or filly that you are absolutely in LOVE with and that you believe 110% she is capable of producing a good race horse. When you find that mare and see that first foal you will be hooked, you will most likely pay what ever it take's to make sure it is looked after correctly, even when the chance of getting a return on that money is very slim.
Funds are low at the moment (uni student working part time) but my long term priorites 1. horses 2.nice car 3.house. I get so much thrill from watching relatives horses race, can only imagine what the thrill from my own. I will also go in with the mantra not to expect much back - it would be great if everyone could make a good dollar and I yearn for that day - but to me its just an expensive but bloody brilliant hobby.

[Starship Captain]

Long term priorites? swapping 1 and 3 will give you the best chance of completing all 3:)

[admin]

Long term priorites? swapping 1 and 3 will give you the best chance of completing all 3:)

Brilliant :)

[aussiebreno]

Long term priorites? swapping 1 and 3 will give you the best chance of completing all 3:)
Lol yeah, I know. Was just conveying how keen I am to get into things.

[Greg Hando]

Join a syndicate and try it for yourself you never know what might come of it you might be lucky to get in a good one .

[aussiebreno]

Join a syndicate and try it for yourself you never know what might come of it you might be lucky to get in a good one .
Solid advice, syndicates are great in getting new owners into the game - don't get me wrong - but I'd rather see my horse a bit closer to me and own more than the tail. I have family on both sides who are trainers (whether they'd want to train one for me is a different story altogether!) so that way I'd be more involved with the horse.

[Starship Captain]

"poor business sense".
This is not applicable to breeding horses, as "good business sense" has the same result in the end:)

[remington]

Long term priorites? swapping 1 and 3 will give you the best chance of completing all 3:)
some one should of told me this alot earlier, once i bought 1 its been a crazy obsession

[Greg Hando]

Take a share in one with them then and see how it goes.