Yearling Sale's

[mango]

What would your top 5 picks be from any of the sale's in Australia and N.Z over the next couple of month's.

[aussiebreno]

Always fun to do this and look and see how your picked worked out!

[triplev123]

On paper I like 298, the American Ideal filly from Death And Taxes.

[Starship Captain]

TripleV123, I did see that one, what would you name her?

-Joeblack
-Benfranklin
-Tea party
-Occupy wall street
-Murdoch

[mango]

I've come up with 4 so far

Shepparton Sale Lot 28 Kenneth J - Tailamade Lombo filly

Melbourne Premium Sale Lot 44 Grin - Soky's Number filly

Sydney Premium Sale Lot 273 SBSW - Boldandbeautifull filly

Australasian Classic Sale Lot 168 Sundon - Sound Of Chiola filly

[triplev123]

TripleV123, I did see that one, what would you name her?

-Joeblack
-Benfranklin
-Tea party
-Occupy wall street
-Murdoch

[VVV] Money Never Sleeps.

[aussiebreno]

Obviously the Melbourne Premium Sale is the only sale worth looking at....

Lot14: Promise - Art Major. It's always a good thing when the sales book doesn't get to the second dame. More importantly though, the cross worked before with Art Majors lessor performed brother resulting in Sir Galvinator. 2yo full brother' Truman' yet to race but I will keep my eye on him too. Some may criticise based on age of mare.

Lot 32: Counterfeit Girl - Art Major. You've heard this before, anything Perfect Art can do Art Major can do better!

Lot 40: Gold Sarn - Art Major. This would have been in no matter the sire - I don't actually have an Art Major obsession. Although not the best performed and I wouldn't expect this lot in manys top5s I loved watching Pyrites, Fususi and now Shake It Mama strutt their stuff. This is the first colt, all his elders siblings are fillies so will be interesting to see how he goes.


Sydey Premium Sale

Lot 292 Kalypso - Art Major. Again, this would have been in here just for the mare, sire had no bearing. Again, I've loved watching the previous progeny in action and they are actually better performed than the Gold Sarn progeny.

Lot 277 Left for Me - Art Major. I thought I would make it an Art Major clean sweep. Full sister to For A Reason and Lettucereason says it all. Would have to send it to McCarthy though!

I don't really have an Art Major bias, just panned out that way.
Plenty of nice young blood out there.

[mango]

Hey Breno
Nice picks, did you see lot 277 in the trotguide.

[Big Max]

Anything by Bettors Delight! LOL

[aussiebreno]

Hey Breno
Nice picks, did you see lot 277 in the trotguide.

Don't buy it.

[Greg Hando]

Shepparton sale fillies lot 14,28, 53 and 71
and for the colt's lot no's 43,57
Lot 63 who in my opinion is the outright pick if i were buying one. 67% w/f the first 4 dams not counting anything their fillies have thrown.

[Don Corleone]

Melbourne
Lot 44

Sydney
Lot 274
Lot 293
Lot 310 - this family will throw a champion filly very soon

I will get back to you with my NZ selections as I am down to my final 100 - ;);):p

[Greg Hando]

I liked 293 and 310 as well but crossed them out because of the sire ,i'm not a great fan of him but i think his stock will breed on perhap's.

[Don Corleone]

310 is probably my favourite Greg and would love to see her in the flesh as that is my major selection decision in fact my only one.

[ARTOFFICIAL]

Not a fan of Grin Greg????

[peteboss4]

Came up with a few
lot 120 ,great shoulder
lot 39
lot 277 & lot 181, great family all racing well... Lettucereason, Waldenburg, Steam Washed
lot 300
lot 427

[Greg Hando]

Not a fan of Grin Greg????

No not particularly, I liked him early on in his career but have since gone off him,just a personal opinion .

[strong persuader]

Just had a little look and took a big liking to Lot 333 at the Sydney Sale. http://www.apgold.com.au/tasks/sites/apgold/assets/File/2012/Photos/Lot%20333.jpg

[peteboss4]

Just had a little look and took a big liking to Lot 333 at the Sydney Sale. http://www.apgold.com.au/tasks/sites/apgold/assets/File/2012/Photos/Lot%20333.jpg


Thats a good looking colt.

[Viv Strangman]

From a kiwi perspective, I find it amazing that there only 6 trotting yearlings in the upcoming round of sales. In the two NZ sales this year there are 67 trotting yearlings catalogued. Must be pretty demoralising if you are breeding trotters in Australia to find yourself sidelined at this years major sales. I am sure someone will enlighten me as to why it is happening

[mango]

Off to Melbourne for the Premium sale, Hunter Cup and the sunday sale and i would like to wish all the vendors the very best of luck over the wkend.

[LisaB25]

australasian sale
42 - kazzacan
49 -gotta go artelect
71 - jet black shadow
109 - caribbean blue

New Zealand premier
28 - code cracker
107 - charlotte grace

[mo cushla]

I hope you are all good judges. I bought Lot 44 at the APG Premium sale. A nice filly.

[LisaB25]

nice filly. Good luck with her

[mango]

I hope you are all good judges. I bought Lot 44 at the APG Premium sale. A nice filly.

Hi Stuart

Very nice family and it was one of my picks but after looking at her and having a couple of people inspect her for me i was advised not to bid . I wish you all the best and i hope she win's many race's for you. I liked the Bettor's filly out of Innocent Eye's and i bidded on her but it just went over my price range.

[Greg Hando]

What was wrong with her mango ?

[aussiebreno]

Obviously the Melbourne Premium Sale is the only sale worth looking at....

Lot14: Promise - Art Major. It's always a good thing when the sales book doesn't get to the second dame. More importantly though, the cross worked before with Art Majors lessor performed brother resulting in Sir Galvinator. 2yo full brother' Truman' yet to race but I will keep my eye on him too. Some may criticise based on age of mare.

Lot 32: Counterfeit Girl - Art Major. You've heard this before, anything Perfect Art can do Art Major can do better!

Lot 40: Gold Sarn - Art Major. This would have been in no matter the sire - I don't actually have an Art Major obsession. Although not the best performed and I wouldn't expect this lot in manys top5s I loved watching Pyrites, Fususi and now Shake It Mama strutt their stuff. This is the first colt, all his elders siblings are fillies so will be interesting to see how he goes.


Sydey Premium Sale

Lot 292 Kalypso - Art Major. Again, this would have been in here just for the mare, sire had no bearing. Again, I've loved watching the previous progeny in action and they are actually better performed than the Gold Sarn progeny.

Lot 277 Left for Me - Art Major. I thought I would make it an Art Major clean sweep. Full sister to For A Reason and Lettucereason says it all. Would have to send it to McCarthy though!

I don't really have an Art Major bias, just panned out that way.
Plenty of nice young blood out there.

Lot14: $50,000
Lot32: $62,500
Lot40: $30,000

A $4,500 increase, or 16% in average prices at the APG Premium, hopefully this trend continues for the breeders throughtout the whole lot of the sales.

[Mitch]

Hi Stuart

Very nice family and it was one of my picks but after looking at her and having a couple of people inspect her for me i was advised not to bid . I wish you all the best and i hope she win's many race's for you. I liked the Bettor's filly out of Innocent Eye's and i bidded on her but it just went over my price range.

Looks nice enough in the photo, but the mare is a 100 yrs old and statistically the chances of getting a good one out of an old mare is significantly reduced. If your buying for her pedigree then that's a different story I guess.

I thought the Christian Cullen - Muscle Beach Colt was the pick of the boys and Bettors Delight - Innocent Eyes filly the pick of the girls from the photo's on the web.

[aussiebreno]

Looks nice enough in the photo, but the mare is a 100 yrs old and statistically the chances of getting a good one out of an old mare is significantly reduced. If your buying for her pedigree then that's a different story I guess.

I thought the Christian Cullen - Muscle Beach Colt was the pick of the boys and Bettors Delight - Innocent Eyes filly the pick of the girls from the photo's on the web.
Hi Mitch,

Where do such statistics come from?

Cheers

[Mitch]

Hi Mitch,

Where do such statistics come from?

Cheers

Brenno,

I don't a have report for you or anything like that, but I guarantee you if you go and do the research you will see I am proven correct. It is even more prevalent in the thoroughbreds, first 4 foals of a mare is where you get the best result.

I'll see if I can find something on the net to share...

Mitch.

[aussiebreno]

Brenno,

I don't a have report for you or anything like that, but I guarantee you if you go and do the research you will see I am proven correct. It is even more prevalent in the thoroughbreds, first 4 foals of a mare is where you get the best result.

I'll see if I can find something on the net to share...

Mitch.
I know many think that (and probably for good reason) but I thought I was finally going to get some hard evidence...

[mango]

Looks nice enough in the photo, but the mare is a 100 yrs old and statistically the chances of getting a good one out of an old mare is significantly reduced. If your buying for her pedigree then that's a different story I guess.

I thought the Christian Cullen - Muscle Beach Colt was the pick of the boys and Bettors Delight - Innocent Eyes filly the pick of the girls from the photo's on the web.

Hi Mitch
The Innocent Eye's filly wasn't real big but a well put together filly and ticked all the boxes and who ever purchased her should have some fun.

[mo cushla]

After Sunday there will be no breeders left. What a disaster !

[Mitch]

I know many think that (and probably for good reason) but I thought I was finally going to get some hard evidence...

Brenno,

May I suggest you look up the dam of any good horse currently racing and have a look at where her best performed son or daughter was produced. If the majority are not in the first 4 foals produced I'll happily admit I was wrong. Lombo Pocket Watch was the 6th or 7th foal outside of that the majority of top performed horses currently racing will prove me correct.

An even simpler exercise may be to go through a catalogue and do the same exercise.

Hope this provides you with the hard evidence you are looking for.

Mitch.

[aussiebreno]

I've selected one of the oldest mares I know.
http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/m_progeny.cfm?horse_id=345519
Started off O.K but the best two, Her Sparky Self and Robric Jonboy, were when she was an older mare. Even now when she is crazy old the last couple have been every bit as good as the first few if not better.

http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/m_progeny.cfm?horse_id=333644

HRNZ won't link correctly but Scandalman is the 5th foal, showing you don't have to be early.
Waldenburg is the 6th foal, the best in his family.

The first Aussie home in the Hunter Cup, Heza Buzzin was a late one. So was his brother Sting Lika Bee. Hi Ho Silverheels was 6th, the first 5 done nothing at all.

Your Pocket Watch example got me onto Tailamade Lombo, another later foal. Espeshilimade Lombo was no slouch as then last of many foals from Butterfly Trunkey.


That wasn't all that hard, out of those 6 broodmares I mentioned ^^^ I looked at 11 all up (The others being the mares of Choise Acheiver, Idea Scott, Safe and Sound, Smoken Up and Decorated Jasper) .
I'm not saying older mares are better. But I'm saying don't write them off.
That wasn't even my main point of posting, my main point of posting was don't say you have statistics when you got nothing. Very misleading.

[mightymo]

I've selected one of the oldest mares I know.
http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/m_progeny.cfm?horse_id=345519
Started off O.K but the best two, Her Sparky Self and Robric Jonboy, were when she was an older mare. Even now when she is crazy old the last couple have been every bit as good as the first few if not better.

http://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/reports/m_progeny.cfm?horse_id=333644

HRNZ won't link correctly but Scandalman is the 5th foal, showing you don't have to be early.
Waldenburg is the 6th foal, the best in his family.

The first Aussie home in the Hunter Cup, Heza Buzzin was a late one. So was his brother Sting Lika Bee. Hi Ho Silverheels was 6th, the first 5 done nothing at all.

Your Pocket Watch example got me onto Tailamade Lombo, another later foal. Espeshilimade Lombo was no slouch as then last of many foals from Butterfly Trunkey.


That wasn't all that hard, out of those 6 broodmares I mentioned ^^^ I looked at 11 all up (The others being the mares of Choise Acheiver, Idea Scott, Safe and Sound, Smoken Up and Decorated Jasper) .
I'm not saying older mares are better. But I'm saying don't write them off.
That wasn't even my main point of posting, my main point of posting was don't say you have statistics when you got nothing. Very misleading.

A friend of mine has always told me that statistically the best foal is the 3rd or 4th foal. However, that doesnt mean the mare cant throw other good foals.

[aussiebreno]

A friend of mine has always told me that statistically the best foal is the 3rd or 4th foal. However, that doesnt mean the mare cant throw other good foals.
Yeah, so many people are of that or similar opinion (and probably for good reason - it probably isn't some wives tale)...but still you can't sprout stats and put something as fact when its mere opinion from past experience. A lot of people do it and I'm not having a go at Mitch - his posting eg Vic Derby heats thread has been good to read.
But if there are stats out there somewhere would love to see.

[mightymo]

Yeah, so many people are of that or similar opinion (and probably for good reason - it probably isn't some wives tale)...but still you can't sprout stats and put something as fact when its mere opinion from past experience. A lot of people do it and I'm not having a go at Mitch - his posting eg Vic Derby heats thread has been good to read.
But if there are stats out there somewhere would love to see.

I just looked up an excellent broodmare in Nickel Castle.

She has now had 14 live foals. To date, the 10 th foal was the best, narrowly ahead of 5th and then 12th

[mightymo]

I just looked up an excellent broodmare in Nickel Castle.

She has now had 14 live foals. To date, the 10 th foal was the best, narrowly ahead of 5th and then 12th

Lauricks Pride had 20 foals. Best of them were the 14th and 15th foals

[peteboss4]

I just looked up an excellent broodmare in Nickel Castle.

She has now had 14 live foals. To date, the 10 th foal was the best, narrowly ahead of 5th and then 12th

Just looked her up myself, great mare.

As im retired & have time I also looked up some intresting stuff (well to me it is)
I looked up about a dozen millionaires & where they are.


Blakes a Fake 4th foal - his mum 6th foal
Monkey King 8th foal - his mum 13th foal
Smoken Up 1st foal - his mum 10th foal
Changeover 5th .......his mum 8th
Shakamaker 4th........his mum 4th
Our Sir Vancelot 4th.......his mum 8th
Village Kid 4th..........mum 1st
Westburn Grant 3rd......mum 5th
Elsu 7th foal............mum 12th
Flashing Red 5th.......mum 3rd
Holmes D G 7th......his mum 10th

And other very good horses...

Mr Swinger 8th foal
Fleur De Lil 6th
Smooth Satin 5th
Kathryn Dancer 8th
Emmas Only 8th
Slipnslide 6th
Im themightyquinn 6th
Kepple bay 10th (as Harvey said)
Mr Nickle 13th ( as Harvey said)
Stunin Cullen 6th

[Mitch]

Brenno,

I take your point re my comments without hard facts to back them up. A good friend of mine works in the breeding game and has access to alot of information, I will see if he can offer anything that I can share.

Some great examples of older mares providing nice horses have been shared so clearly there is a strong case to disprove my comment, which I accept.

Mitch.

[Mitch]

Just quickly other horses from the Derby on Sat Night:

Restrepo - 1st foal
Ideal Scott - 2nd foal
Major Post - 3rd foal
Charlie Machsheen - 2nd foal

Others:
Christian Cullen - 2nd foal
Courage Under Fire - 1st foal
Shakamaker - 4th foal
Elsu - 7th foal

Interesting....

[Mitch]

Just found this... Brief but better than nothing!

http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/Horse/pdf/moldprod.pdf (http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/Horse/pdf/moldprod.pdf)

[peteboss4]

Good reading Mitch.

Im not having a go but I love that Miss Jogalong was the 14th foal and Karloo Mick was her 1st foal.

[Triple V]

G'day Mitch,

I've long believed much if not all of the 'older mares don't produce as well as younger mares' is man made rather than any natural phenomenon.
Young mares starting off their careers tend to get the best of everything, the best sires, the best feeding, the best of Vet care and all associated attentions etc.
Unless they produce a winner/winners straight away and they keep on producing them...the quality of the sires they're bred to, the feed and the Vet care and so on they receive drops away and they begin an uphill battle of ever increasing difficulty until they reach the point of it being impossible.
Sometimes they can simply be bred to a string of unsuitable sires.
I've done it myself with one mare, something which I am still kicking myself about.
Otherwise, if you get the sires right and keep older mares well fed and well cared for, give them every opportunity with good class sires throughout their breeding life and give them the same level of Vet care as you would a young, successful racemare straight off the track, there's no reason why they can't continue to produce winners & good ones & well into the double digits.
Sometimes it is as simple as a regularly seeing to their feet and their teeth & rugging them up in the cold weather so they hold their condition through Winter. Keep them happy and healthy and they'll keep on going.
We've got a filly in the Sydney APG who's now deceased dam was a 1991 model...this yearling is her 7th living and 10th overall foal, previously having, through no fault of her own, lost 3 foals in a row would you believe...a Bettor's, a Dream Away and a Four Starzzz Shark...and type wise this easily is the best one she has ever had. Maybe it was the old girl's last hurrah? Don't know.

[Mitch]

G'day Mitch,

I've long believed much if not all of the 'older mares don't produce as well as younger mares' is man made rather than any natural phenomenon.
Young mares starting off their careers tend to get the best of everything, the best sires, the best feeding, the best of Vet care and all associated attentions etc.
Unless they produce a winner/winners straight away and they keep on producing them...the quality of the sires they're bred to, the feed and the Vet care and so on they receive drops away and they begin an uphill battle of ever increasing difficulty until they reach the point of it being impossible.
Sometimes they can simply be bred to a string of unsuitable sires.
I've done it myself with one mare, something which I am still kicking myself about.
Otherwise, if you get the sires right and keep older mares well fed and well cared for, give them every opportunity with good class sires throughout their breeding life and give them the same level of Vet care as you would a young, successful racemare straight off the track, there's no reason why they can't continue to produce winners & good ones & well into the double digits.
Sometimes it is as simple as a regularly seeing to their feet and their teeth & rugging them up in the cold weather so they hold their condition through Winter. Keep them happy and healthy and they'll keep on going.
We've got a filly in the Sydney APG who's now deceased dam was a 1991 model...this yearling is her 7th living and 10th overall foal, previously having, through no fault of her own, lost 3 foals in a row would you believe...a Bettor's, a Dream Away and a Four Starzzz Shark...and type wise this easily is the best one she has ever had. Maybe it was the old girl's last hurrah? Don't know.

Hi Jaimie,

You may well be correct however I don't think this is always the case. There are plenty of breeders out there who support their mares with quality stallions right through their breeding career.

In my experience, which is exclusive to thoroughbreds from a breeding perspective, the one factor that I take into consideration with my older mares is stallion fertility. This often means I move away from 1st season sires and look to stallions with good fertility and that are proven. This may not be as a big a factor in Standardbreds given AI.

My own experience in purchasing both thoroughbred and standardbred yearlings also lends to the theory of younger mare, first 4 progeny. Gamechanger was the first foal out of uwin and my best performed gallopers have all been first 4 foals.

At the end of the day I don't think it really matters, it's probably more just a personal preference thing, everyone in this game has their theories and likes/dislikes and they are entitled to do so. I certainly have mine and others on this have theirs.

Good debate regardless....

[Triple V]

G'day Mitch,

I do think there may sometimes be a placental/nutritional basis to some of it...that I will happily concede...but as one pretty smart fella who has been in the breeding business a long, long time once said to me "Show me a rule and I'll show you an exception".
There are relatively young mares that have had only 4 or 5 foals that, for various reasons, are already clapped out and buggered and there are old mares that have been lovey doved all of their breeding careers & they seem to defy the ravages of time and multiple births.
Kind of related to this thread is simply the age of a mare. I've never quite been able to work out the line of thinking behind it all however I have seen some people shy away from older mares even though it's very clear that, for whatever reason, they have started their breeding careers later in life & to that point only had a small number of foals. That has really got me beaten.
One thing a mate of mine who was reading this thread and rang me earlier this morning to promptly remind me of is that which he termed as being the generational changes we see in the breed. I thought he made a good case for always going forwards with sires...as in always looking to breed the older broodmares to the younger, up and coming brigade of sires & at the same time not breeding the younger, up and coming mares to the older brigade of sires. That makes a fair bit of sense to me.

[strong persuader]

I too had long believed that the early foals from a mare were the best options. This was because it was what was told to my by people whose opinion I respected. Over time with more education, I have softened on my attitude towards this because it has become obvious that other factors come into play.

From Equine Genetics & Selection Procedures, very complex reading, comes only one simple tidbit on age as regards breeding;
"Breeding stock that receive proper care may produce over a span of 20 years or so. Some genetically coded traits will be accentuated with age and/or use, such as greying, swayed backs, and breakdown due to faulty conformation. Age might also affect a horse's keeping qualities, but horses receiving the proper care generally remain functional into their twenties."

This fits with most of the other advice I have received over the years about the subject, it is just that some people have passed it on with their own biases added to it!

I often give the advice that yes do your research on the catalogue regarding breeding etc, but go to the sale with the catalogue in your pocket and when you see a horse you like then check the catalogue and if you have not noted anything that says you shouldn't buy it in the catalogue, go with that choice.

[Mitch]

Jaimie,

Couldn't agree more the comments about an exception to every rule... This will always be the case.

I think your friends comments about generational changes is true, it just depends how quickly the industry as whole want to make the change and this will be determined by how long they choose to support proven older stallions and colonial stallions vs shuttle stallions from OS.

I'm probably getting off topic here but I would be really keen to get your thoughts on the whole shift toward American/Canadian stallions and their proliferation in the Australian standardbred market, call me a traditionalist but I think the vast majority that stand in australia are overrated/overpriced and we have underrated the value of colonial stallions. My knowledge on standardbred breeding is only very limited given I have much greater experience and knowledge with the TBs hence the question?

[Mitch]

I too had long believed that the early foals from a mare were the best options. This was because it was what was told to my by people whose opinion I respected. Over time with more education, I have softened on my attitude towards this because it has become obvious that other factors come into play.

From Equine Genetics & Selection Procedures, very complex reading, comes only one simple tidbit on age as regards breeding;
"Breeding stock that receive proper care may produce over a span of 20 years or so. Some genetically coded traits will be accentuated with age and/or use, such as greying, swayed backs, and breakdown due to faulty conformation. Age might also affect a horse's keeping qualities, but horses receiving the proper care generally remain functional into their twenties."

This fits with most of the other advice I have received over the years about the subject, it is just that some people have passed it on with their own biases added to it!

I often give the advice that yes do your research on the catalogue regarding breeding etc, but go to the sale with the catalogue in your pocket and when you see a horse you like then check the catalogue and if you have not noted anything that says you shouldn't buy it in the catalogue, go with that choice.

Hi Phil,

That's the only way to buy a horse from a sale in my opinion. Look at horse first, catalogue second and don't waste your time on x-rays......

[Triple V]

I'm probably getting off topic here but I would be really keen to get your thoughts on the whole shift toward American/Canadian stallions and their proliferation in the Australian standardbred market, call me a traditionalist but I think the vast majority that stand in australia are overrated/overpriced and we have underrated the value of colonial stallions. My knowledge on standardbred breeding is only very limited given I have much greater experience and knowledge with the TBs hence the question?

[VVV] G'day again Mitch,
I'm generally loathe to concede that they get much right in the breeding arena however I am very much in favour of following the TB model when it comes to initially shuttling the best available sires and then patronising their best locally bred, locally performed sons.

I think we're still a little way off that sort of thing being in full swing but I'm confident it will become more and more common in the future. We've already seen the initial sparks fly with the likes of Christian Cullen and Courage Under Fire. There'll always be a place for shuttle sires however if and when they produce a comparable product to that which is available overseas then I can't see any reason why Breeders in this country should not line up to support it.

On that score, it might come as somewhat of a shock to many people, it certainly did to me, that here in Australia, currently WE DO NOT HAVE A SINGLE BIG $$$$ CLASSIC EVENT FOR 3YO COLTS OVER THE MILE, such a race obviously allowing aspiring sires to race & prove themselves when in against the best around...and with it the opportunity to post a slick time. Instead we ask them to head off on a series of 2300m+ slogs. ????????

If we're going to genuinely aspire to producing our own home-grown sires then we must look to affording them at least some form of opportunity to post comparable juvenile times and have comparable juvenile $.

The duplicity of the Breeders down this way can be a little confusing at times too.
For an imported Sire they'll invariably zero in on the juvenile performances and shun aged efforts...however with a local bred it seems to be all about how they've performed as aged horses on the Grand Circuit????. Buggered if I can work that one out. It makes no sense at all.

[Mitch]

[VVV] G'day again Mitch,
I'm generally loathe to concede that they get much right in the breeding arena however I am very much in favour of following the TB model when it comes to initially shuttling the best available sires and then patronising their best locally bred, locally performed sons.

I think we're still a little way off that sort of thing being in full swing but I'm confident it will become more and more common in the future. We've already seen the initial sparks fly with the likes of Christian Cullen and Courage Under Fire. There'll always be a place for shuttle sires however if and when they produce a comparable product to that which is available overseas then I can't see any reason why Breeders in this country should not line up to support it.

On that score, it might come as somewhat of a shock to many people, it certainly did to me, that here in Australia, currently WE DO NOT HAVE A SINGLE BIG $$$$ CLASSIC EVENT FOR 3YO COLTS OVER THE MILE, such a race obviously allowing aspiring sires to race & prove themselves when in against the best around...and with it the opportunity to post a slick time. Instead we ask them to head off on a series of 2300m+ slogs. ????????

If we're going to genuinely aspire to producing our own home-grown sires then we must look to affording them at least some form of opportunity to post comparable juvenile times and have comparable juvenile $.

The duplicity of the Breeders down this way can be a little confusing at times too.
For an imported Sire they'll invariably zero in on the juvenile performances and shun aged efforts...however with a local bred it seems to be all about how they've performed as aged horses on the Grand Circuit????. Buggered if I can work that one out. It makes no sense at all.

Maybe NSWHRC move the Simpson Memorial to a couple of weeks prior to the ABC series, up the prize money to 100k make it a g1 and the watch them fly. I have no doubt we would see some slick times, possibly even see a 3yo break 1.50???

[Starship Captain]

Not sure if this belong's here, Eliza Park has an offer that if you have a filly foal born from one of the 5 or 6 selected stallions you can breed next season for free.
I'm guessing that thoroughbred breeders are encountering the same problems as standardbred breeders?

[little fish]

Not sure if this belong's here, Eliza Park has an offer that if you have a filly foal born from one of the 5 or 6 selected stallions you can breed next season for free.
I'm guessing that thoroughbred breeders are encountering the same problems as standardbred breeders?

I was speaking about this to a well known harness trainer yesterday, what with the disastrous results for fillies at the recent Melbourne APG sales maybe the studs could refund half of your service fee if you get a filly? Or at least some sort of discount......I spoke to 3 biggish players in the breeding game who just will not return with fillies next year. Can't stay in the game if you're making a loss after all....fewer breeders means fewer services for the stallions.

[LisaB25]

just looking at the sydney premium results..
total lots 45
sold lots 23
51 % clearance
dissapointing..

[Don Corleone]

Very dissapointing Lisa. As much as I LOVE horse auctions and sale time, i have often thought it would be much easier if the vendor just put a price on the horse and first in with the necessary amount secured it, a bit like the old "land grab" days. Would make good viewing :cool:
But you're right it's very dissapointing to see those results.

[peteboss4]

Came up with a few
lot 120 ,great shoulder
lot 39
lot 277 & lot 181, great family all racing well... Lettucereason, Waldenburg, Steam Washed
lot 300
lot 427

so far.....lot 39 $16,000
lot 120 buy back
lot 181 $9,500
lot 277 $82,500 sale topper filly
lot 300 $55,00
lot 427 $70,000 sale topper

[peteboss4]

If you don't have Matthew Sandbloms mares or Black Magic Woman, Threepence, Colada Hanover, Starry Rainbow or Boldandbeautiful your not going to make a living if your a breeder. Id hate to be in the situation they are in, they would be tearing their hair out if they have any left to tear out. Didn't realise just how disappointing last nights sale was till i had a good look.

[Danno]

If you don't have Matthew Sandbloms mares or Black Magic Woman, Threepence, Colada Hanover, Starry Rainbow or Boldandbeautiful your not going to make a living if your a breeder. Id hate to be in the situation they are in, they would be tearing their hair out if they have any left to tear out. Didn't realise just how disappointing last nights sale was till i had a good look.

I believe it's not just contained to our yearling sales, people in this country are simply not spending their money at the moment.
Sales are flat or going backwards in just about every avenue.
There are a million experts out there that will tell you it's this or it's that and I'm not one of them, but I would hope most people would realise our game is not immune to these trends.

[Starship Captain]

http://www.patricianpark.com.au/?p=919&utm

This picture is one of the best I have seen of a yearling this year.

[peteboss4]

I believe it's not just contained to our yearling sales, people in this country are simply not spending their money at the moment.
Sales are flat or going backwards in just about every avenue.
There are a million experts out there that will tell you it's this or it's that and I'm not one of them, but I would hope most people would realise our game is not immune to these trends.

Fair enough Dan & I understand where you are coming from but I'm talking harness racing only & seriously its getting worse. Someone used the word 'evaporating' not that long ago, I think he may be right...... how can these guys make a living, it can not be easy. More & more will leave because of this & everything else thats going on. Victorian results were 76% compared to our 51%. Even though other states are finding it hard NSW should be declared a disaster zone & marshall law employed.

[Danno]

Fair enough Dan & I understand where you are coming from but I'm talking harness racing only & seriously its getting worse. Someone used the word 'evaporating' not that long ago, I think he may be right...... how can these guys make a living, it can not be easy. More & more will leave because of this & everything else thats going on. Victorian results were 76% compared to our 51%. Even though other states are finding it hard NSW should be declared a disaster zone & marshall law employed.

I hear you Pete, the differences in the percentage of yearlings passed in is quite staggering and yes I know the current integrity issues facing NSW will definitley have had some degree of impact, but other factors such as the big prizemoney increases should have negated some of that, one would hope. Having said that, there is no doubt it will take quite some time for the negative effects of the "pay to play" scheme to be behind us, not to mention the recent littany of drug related charges going around.

To be completely honest, if I were a person trying to make a living off this game I reckon I would have thrown the sponge in at some time over the last six months, there has always been a few shonks in the game but at the moment it seems that if your not a bit shonky then get used to racing for second prizemoney, and please everyone this is not a shot at everyone who's won a race recently, just the cheats and they know who they are.

Cheers,

Dan.

[eliteblood]

Fair enough Dan & I understand where you are coming from but I'm talking harness racing only & seriously its getting worse. Someone used the word 'evaporating' not that long ago, I think he may be right...... how can these guys make a living, it can not be easy. More & more will leave because of this & everything else thats going on. Victorian results were 76% compared to our 51%. Even though other states are finding it hard NSW should be declared a disaster zone & marshall law employed.

The sales have been a total disaster for breeders and I expect there will be carnage within the industry as a result. If you take the results of the Sunday sale in Melbourne, the average price was $11,964. That constitutes a loss.
Breaking the results down further
111 (55%) sold for less than $10k - (absolute disaster)
41 (20%) sold for less than $15k - (in almost all cases that would be a loss)
25 (12%) sold for less than $20k - (small profit or loss depending upon service fee)
26 (12%) sold for less than 30k - (in most cases a small profit depending upon service fee)
4 (2%) sold for more than $30k - (a good result for the vendors of these 4 lots)

The figures are flattering because they include buy backs, so 32% of those results would not have been achieved at all. I excluded the $80k top priced buyback from the figures.

Looking at fillies in isolation,
21 failed to draw a bid
43 sold for less than $10k
12 sold for less than $15k
7 sold for less than $20k
4 sold for less than $30k
1 sold for more than $30k

After looking at the service fees of the top 12 fillies, I would suggest that there were only 2 fillies in the whole sale that produced a good profit to their vendors.
73% fall into the category of absolute disaster (<$10k).

[peteboss4]

I hear you Pete, the differences in the percentage of yearlings passed in is quite staggering and yes I know the current integrity issues facing NSW will definitley have had some degree of impact, but other factors such as the big prizemoney increases should have negated some of that, one would hope. Having said that, there is no doubt it will take quite some time for the negative effects of the "pay to play" scheme to be behind us, not to mention the recent littany of drug related charges going around.

To be completely honest, if I were a person trying to make a living off this game I reckon I would have thrown the sponge in at some time over the last six months, there has always been a few shonks in the game but at the moment it seems that if your not a bit shonky then get used to racing for second prizemoney, and please everyone this is not a shot at everyone who's won a race recently, just the cheats and they know who they are.

Cheers,

Dan.

Yes i would have left too & probably will .I have always enjoyed the sport but not so much now. Went back & had a look there has been 23 positives in a relative short period , we have EPO,Meth, arsenic, bute,testosterone (that's a steroid),ibuprofen,& your good old bicarb etc. Its a disgrace & do any of these cheats care who they are ripping off.......NO, THEY DO NOT...You have guys with POSITIVES racing in Hunter Cups & Interdoms.... that in itself is WRONG.......You have guys listed on the O'Toole charge sheet STILL winning races......these grubs run this sport, NOT the stewards or the CEO..... Sam needs to step up and put into place lengthy sentences for cheats & stick to it....eg 12 mts bi carb, 5years anything else as there is no real DESCENT penalty for these cheats. ALSO THESE CASES NEED TO BE DELT WITH QUICKLY. And mark my words some named in the O'Toole case will get away with it! Things need to change NOW before its too late. Obviously I'm Pissed off big time!

[Starship Captain]

Thank's for the break down of the sale Trevor, I hope Sydney and Perth are much better for the breeder's.

Dan & Pete,
Warren Buffet said to tell you both to get to Sydney asap and then too Perth with your cheque book's open:)

Exactly how much of the blame can be put on the current scandle for the sale price's? Million dollar question

[peteboss4]

Thank's for the break down of the sale Trevor, I hope Sydney and Perth are much better for the breeder's.

Dan & Pete,
Warren Buffet said to tell you both to get to Sydney asap and then too Perth with your cheque book's open:)

Exactly how much of the blame can be put on the current scandle for the sale price's? Million dollar question

Jason your smarted that your last sentance, Surely.

[Starship Captain]

The reference to Buffet was just my view on when to buy and the rest of the post was ok IMO.

[peteboss4]

The reference to Buffet was just my view on when to buy and the rest of the post was ok IMO.

No worries
Cheers

[peteboss4]

The sales have been a total disaster for breeders and I expect there will be carnage within the industry as a result. If you take the results of the Sunday sale in Melbourne, the average price was $11,964. That constitutes a loss.
Breaking the results down further
111 (55%) sold for less than $10k - (absolute disaster)
41 (20%) sold for less than $15k - (in almost all cases that would be a loss)
25 (12%) sold for less than $20k - (small profit or loss depending upon service fee)
26 (12%) sold for less than 30k - (in most cases a small profit depending upon service fee)
4 (2%) sold for more than $30k - (a good result for the vendors of these 4 lots)

The figures are flattering because they include buy backs, so 32% of those results would not have been achieved at all. I excluded the $80k top priced buyback from the figures.

Looking at fillies in isolation,
21 failed to draw a bid
43 sold for less than $10k
12 sold for less than $15k
7 sold for less than $20k
4 sold for less than $30k
1 sold for more than $30k

After looking at the service fees of the top 12 fillies, I would suggest that there were only 2 fillies in the whole sale that produced a good profit to their vendors.
73% fall into the category of absolute disaster (<$10k).


Feel bad for all you guys trying to make a living out of this game.....its more than sad to see the industry going down like the Titanic

[LisaB25]

agree..spotted this one a while back
wouldn't mind taking him home.


http://www.patricianpark.com.au/?p=919&utm

This picture is one of the best I have seen of a yearling this year.

[peteboss4]

Sydney sales.

The results are in and that guy who said 'even the yearling sales will cop a hiding this year' in another post (domination post) was spot on.

Terrible sale.

[Triple V]

Sure was. I have attended every single Sydney APG since the inception of the Series, since way back when George Aiken did all the work with Carlton & United to get the series $$$ backed and up & running and I first sold one at the 2nd APG Sale ever held.
In all that time I have NEVER seen such a tough marketplace.

If we were only to take basic production costs taken into account it reveals that the vast majority of the Vendors out there at Randwick yesterday have effectively paid someone to take their yearling. Even if you went Service Fee out as far as an initial cost was concerned, most Vendors would not have made even the most marginal of profits even if they had received said Service Fee for free.

A number of negative factors converged & combined yesterday to create more bloodshed than you'd see on the Killing Floor of Roger Fletcher's Abattoir at Dubbo.
In no particularly order of importance and more than likely not limited to, I think they are...
(1) Fillies/Mares Only racing opportunities at starvation levels. (eg. 2yo fillies with 9/14 from 66 from a little over a week ago until March 31st).
(2) Corruption in NSW still not completely dealt with.
(3) Service fees & associated breeding costs now at unsustainable levels.
(4) Generally poor economic conditions...ask most people in small business how they're travelling.

Once I manage to collect my thoughts and line up on the shortfalls of various bodies & individuals I'll post accordingly. Right now, I'm still stunned after yesterday. As a good mate of mine said to me on Sunday while 20m away in the ring another Vendor was led to the slaughter "This will kill off the last of the true believers". Couldn't have said it better.

[teecee]

I'm going blue waiting with baited breath to see how our sales go.
Putting my first yearling into the sales (Chch day 1) on behalf of my American stable clients. They may be up in the wee small hours wondering if they picked the right year to start selling at the sales. I'm sure though that they wil never believe it could be as bad as they experienced on their visit to Chch's sale last year.

[mango]

It was a very tough day for all concerned on sunday, i sold one and i will go close to breaking even but in saying that there was nothing wrong with the filly but looking at the previous sale's over the last 10 day's i valued her at $8k - $10k so i was happy with $9k if i wasn't i would of brought her back. Buyer's are being a lot more selective compared to previous years. It would be interesting to know how many breeders walked away after sunday thinking i'm not breeding or selling any more when you can buy them cheap and without all the risks of having to get a mare in foal and rear it to the sale stage.

[Danno]

It was a very tough day for all concerned on sunday, i sold one and i will go close to breaking even but in saying that there was nothing wrong with the filly but looking at the previous sale's over the last 10 day's i valued her at $8k - $10k so i was happy with $9k if i wasn't i would of brought her back. Buyer's are being a lot more selective compared to previous years. It would be interesting to know how many breeders walked away after sunday thinking i'm not breeding or selling any more when you can buy them cheap and without all the risks of having to get a mare in foal and rear it to the sale stage.






(1) Fillies/Mares Only racing opportunities at starvation levels. (eg. 2yo fillies with 9/14 from 66 from a little over a week ago until March 31st).
(2) Corruption in NSW still not completely dealt with.
(3) Service fees & associated breeding costs now at unsustainable levels.
(4) Generally poor economic conditions...ask most people in small business how they're travelling.



Dallas,
as much as I have disagreed with Triple on a number of subjects I reckon the factors he has quoted should all be given serious consideration by all industry stakeholders.

The yearling sales results have for many observers, been a " barometer" of the industry's health..I'm not saying the only barometer, but one that certainly indicates market confidence.If used as such the recent sales results could be interpretted to display a more significant nose dive in NSW in particular!

Some of the the factors for this are not to find, they are staring us in the face..."pay to play"...the dominance of a couple of stables and the perception that something funny is going on. Like it or not that is the perception of many people in the game, whether it's right or not.
Hence this overall perception that the game is riddled with corruption is erroding confidence and this flows to the market indicators such as the yearling sales.

Anyone who has some desire to breed, even just for their own use, ( and that's a large slice of the breeders in NSW) will agree the opportunities for female only racing in NSW and probably across AUS and NZ are inadequate. Where would womens tennis and golf be if the girls had to compete against the boys at all the Majors?

As triple mentioned the service fees of many stallions is out of step with the available prizemoney and some are downright ridiculous if you wanted to breed one to keep! Some of the higher end stallions service fees could only be considered if you are selling the product and if everyone else thats got one by the same horse does the same thing then you've got a market flooded with the progeny of this particular stallion and whats going to happen to the price when there are more yearlings than buyers?

I've mentioned the current economic climate already, people are just not spending their money, and who knows why, there are many opinions out there and I'm sure there are a few I haven't heard yet as well, but until this turns around our "game" is going to feel the pressure just like eveyone else.

Better time ahead Dallas, we just have to wait unfortunately.

Cheers,
Dan

[little fish]

I've mentioned the current economic climate already, people are just not spending their money, and who knows why, there are many opinions out there and I'm sure there are a few I haven't heard yet as well, but until this turns around our "game" is going to feel the pressure just like eveyone else.

For years I have said that the property boom and inflated housing prices would eventually lead to banks taking in a larger slice of people's incomes which would then deplete the amount of disposable income people have for other 'luxury' items.

I think it's just symptoms of 'now' thinking, availability of credit, and poor govt tax policy.

[aussiebreno]

For years I have said that the property boom and inflated housing prices would eventually lead to banks taking in a larger slice of people's incomes which would then deplete the amount of disposable income people have for other 'luxury' items.

I think it's just symptoms of 'now' thinking, availability of credit, and poor govt tax policy.
Hey Barry,
Ever wanted a job at the RBA?

[mango]

Hi Dan

There will be better time's ahead and i was happy with the price i got for my filly, people are already saying they are cutting back on breeding but i'm going the opposite way i will be breeding another 3 mare's this year to the best i can afford and then hopefully onto the yearling sale's and if they don't sell i'll just take them home and race. As i was a buyer on friday night i got a nice filly at a very good price which was under what i valued her as and then when speaking to the breeder i was told there was 2 people waiting at the gait for me as i stole her so i seen both side's as a breeder/buyer. It's a very tough game the breeding side of thing's.There is also an option that if you don't get your asking price for your yearling take it home and get it ready for the Ready to Run sale which i think is a great idea. Aussies have been going to the RTR sale in n.z for years now and spending up and now they have the chance to buy here with horses paid up for the A.P.G and other local race's.

[aussiebreno]

Hi Dan

There will be better time's ahead and i was happy with the price i got for my filly, people are already saying they are cutting back on breeding but i'm going the opposite way i will be breeding another 3 mare's this year
As supply will probably decrease (this is general consensus that some breeders won't be back), fingers crossed for you you can get a nice price next year - which given general consensus you should. I'd imagine demand will increase as well (we are at rock bottom right now) - lessened supply, increased demand = happy times.





Just getting some positive thinking into this thread.

[Danno]

Hi Dan

There will be better time's ahead and i was happy with the price i got for my filly, people are already saying they are cutting back on breeding but i'm going the opposite way i will be breeding another 3 mare's this year to the best i can afford and then hopefully onto the yearling sale's and if they don't sell i'll just take them home and race. As i was a buyer on friday night i got a nice filly at a very good price which was under what i valued her as and then when speaking to the breeder i was told there was 2 people waiting at the gait for me as i stole her so i seen both side's as a breeder/buyer. It's a very tough game the breeding side of thing's.There is also an option that if you don't get your asking price for your yearling take it home and get it ready for the Ready to Run sale which i think is a great idea. Aussies have been going to the RTR sale in n.z for years now and spending up and now they have the chance to buy here with horses paid up for the A.P.G and other local race's.

G'Day Dallas,
I noticed the Mach Three filly you stole! I believe you're on the money with the future Dallas, the disastrous sales results will not, I believe compound year after year and if we haven't seen the backend of some of the influencing issues by then I'll be dissappointed like many others.

We've only ever bred them for ourselves and that gets hard enough with all the pitfalls, you think you've seen them all and then along comes a new one...like they say, if it was easy everyone could/would do it.

The more options for vendors and buyers alike can only be good for the game and,a s you say the ready to run sale is a great option to have, these have been tried in the past with varying success, lets hope the current model gets some traction.

Cheers,
Dan

[Triple V]

Like it or lump it, the various State & National Bodies should be prepared for the backlash.
The consumption of PG is set to skyrocket by way of demand from bloodied and bewildered Breeders heading home from the Sales, calling their Vets and aborting their mares en masse. There will be an ocean of mares reported negative at 42 days. Nothing surer than the sunrise.
You will not see the figures until next season or later this year but a swag of mares will show up in the missed column. No way known they carry in utero foals through to another slaughter like we saw here in Sydney on Sunday.
Congratulations to HRA, HRV & HRNSW. By way of the disgraceful lack of racing opportunities afforded 50% of the annual foal crop (i.e. fillies & mares) you've individually & collectively made a very significant contribultion towards finally killing off the Breeding Industry here in Australia. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

[Triple V]

Incidentally, while I'm on the war path.... HAS THERE BEEN A MORE ABSURD CONCLUSION than that which the relatively recent HRA Breeders Panel came to that we need to breed more foals ??????????????
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING FELLAS!
How about making a start by way of seeing to it that you fully utilise the 50% of the annual foal crop that you currently all but ignore (the fillies) by affording them genuine opportunities to race against their own sex? It's not &%$#ing Rocket Science fellas. It's not &%$#ing Brain Surgery.
How many Breeders have to be sent to the wall before you get your heads out of your arses????????????

[Starship Captain]

Hi,
If we breed more mares and have more foals don't we get more colts? simple haha. (sorry)
Makes me sad to see the state of the breeding industry. The high costs of production are a killer when put up against
our chance of getting a return. We are very lucky though that in the not to distant future for the super breeding offer's
that will be pushed to the poor sucker's that still think they can make a profit from selling at auction, I get the feeling that
there will be some great:) incentives to breed your mare again. sad sad

[murray green]

We have bred for a number of years and the thing that really irks me is that if you haven't received a fair price at the Gold sale you have to buy your own horse back . It is mystically owned by the board and you have to buy it back . The poor old breeder has the bidders trying to screw him or her over and then if you can't acheive a suitable bid the board screw you over . Breeder looses every time . Bathurst is the only sale where you can set a reserve . The Gold has a race worth $300,000 for girls and boys but the breeder usually doesn't see a cent because his horse has been sold for pittance . Breeders are a dying race

[Greg Hando]

A point being missed is also the number of horse's from NZ coming over isn't helping our breeding industry either but by christ it's helping the NZ breeder's a whole lot.
You can't blame people for doing it they can get one up and running and go to the races straight away rather than waiting to see if a yearling work's out or not.
I notice with the TAB no 1 and NSW trotting club syndicate they even buy NZ if your principal club wont support home grown why should anybody else.
Yes it's good to get new people into the game but at what cost to the breeding industry in NSW.
I don't know the answer's to the breeding problem but i believe we have got to stick with it and see what happen's and i totally agree with their not being enough fillies and mare's races .
Also a point why some people don't breed is the cost's associated with it ie agistment cost's .Some place's in my opinion charge way too much, i know grass cost's money but be realistic with the pricing and it may help.
I don't know.Also with some buyer's they really get shitty with buy back's ( fair enough if you haven't been offered what you think it's worth ) but some are only put in the Gold sale's to be eligible for the race's and have no intention of selling the horse anyway. Is that fair to the buyer's .
Just some thought's i was having and typing aloud.

[Triple V]

That's a very good point Greg.
The flood of NZ going horses into Oz tells me that most Owners really don't give a fat rat's arse what their horses are eligible or not eligible for in terms of the various futurity events. For years and years I have laboured under the (false) impression that our yearlings had to be APG/NSW Breeders Challenge/VicBred/Australasian Breeders Crown/Gold Crown eligible in order to be attractive lots at any sale...but you know what?
I think it is all bullshit. I think it's a HUGE waste of money. Breeders are the poor bastards who think they're doing the right thing & pay up for these things. They're all along thinking these futurities are prerequisites as far as buyers are concerned....when in fact nothing could be further from the truth and these are nothing more than pleasant windfalls to buyers for which they are generally not prepared to pay any more.

[Zyuganov Leis]

I was mortified at the recent APG Sydney and Melbourne results.

The amount of buybacks were quite simply, staggering and trying to entice my wife to part with some of our hard earned to buy a filly, with view to become a broodmare, once outlining the potential numbers involved vs the potential return had her look at me like I was stupid (well more stupid than when she looks at me on other occassions!)

No seriously though, you don't mind a small loss for a hobby/passion, but unless your filly does the business on the racetrack and banks well before breeding, you really are up shit creek otherwise, no matter how well she may be bred and your staring at a humongous black hole of costs that will drain you.

I don't know, it's just my 2c's worth, but Harness Racing just keeps finding ways for people to not get involved and want to support the game going forward.

[LisaB25]

true Greg..
was talking to a trainer the other day on his thoughts about a yearling in the upcoming sale in WA, and he said dont bother, take your money to nz and get a going horse for the same price..

[Greg Hando]

A minimum cost i think for a yearling (mare stud stay ) would be about $9000 + to get to a sale from first day mare at stud with a $3000 service fee and no rego or futurity payment's made or transport to sale just agistment cost's and sales prep.

[Triple V]

I was mortified at the recent APG Sydney and Melbourne results.

The amount of buybacks were quite simply, staggering and trying to entice my wife to part with some of our hard earned to buy a filly, with view to become a broodmare, once outlining the potential numbers involved vs the potential return had her look at me like I was stupid (well more stupid than when she looks at me on other occassions!)

No seriously though, you don't mind a small loss for a hobby/passion, but unless your filly does the business on the racetrack and banks well before breeding, you really are up shit creek otherwise, no matter how well she may be bred and your staring at a humongous black hole of costs that will drain you.

I don't know, it's just my 2c's worth, but Harness Racing just keeps finding ways for people to not get involved and want to support the game going forward.


[VVV] G'day Craig,

Over the weekend and for the first time ever, the disdain with which yearling fillies are viewed really frightens me.
They've never, ever been an easy sell, I realise and accept that...but honestly, last Sunday it was just absolutely shocking.
I've been to a lot of sales including all of the Sydney APG's that have ever been conducted & have never seen a more depressed marketplace and have never seen nor felt such a widespread lack of interest.
I didn't expect it to be bountiful, in their heart of hearts I don't think anyone did...however when the colts started to cop it in the neck almost from the jump I knew we were all in for a rough ride.
I worked in the Wool Trade for about 15 years from just after I left school and in the auction room, over & above the individual prices being paid, we always used to focus on/talk about the general feel of/the tone of the market. Viewed in that fashion, to me Sunday's marketplace had a tone comparitive to that of a Blamange.

[Greg Hando]

I dont know why people don't like fillies personally i would buy a filly any day as you have 2 cracks at it racing and breeding and yeah you know what the day is going to be like after the first 10 or so lot's and mostly it is a long day .

[Don Corleone]

I dont know why people don't like fillies personally i would buy a filly any day as you have 2 cracks at it racing and breeding and yeah you know what the day is going to be like after the first 10 or so lot's and mostly it is a long day .

I think perception Greg. For a hundred reasons that triple has mentioned. I was talking to guy who is going up to our sales and asked him what he had a eye on and they were all colts. I asked why he wasn't interested in a filly and he said he wanted a grand circuit runner and a Cup winner and there weren't many mares that win the ID, NZ Cup, Hunter Cup etc. I said "well there is no colts that win the Oaks!!" A race that has always been my wish to win. He also said that breeders can bred and he will buy. Fair enough.

[LisaB25]

bettors delights bringing some of the better money in perth..
lot 8 - 42500
lot 42 46000 - going to the bond stable