Nz sales

[Greg Hando]

Top pick's for day 1 are colt's 12,67,69,72,97 and 141 with 69 and 97 the stand out's
and the fillies 28,103,107,143,151,171 and 176
with 107 and 151 the stand out's IMO
Ihope everyone has a good sale .

[mightymo]

Top pick's for day 1 are colt's 12,67,69,72,97 and 141 with 69 and 97 the stand out's
and the fillies 28,103,107,143,151,171 and 176
with 107 and 151 the stand out's IMO
Ihope everyone has a good sale .

I have done a quick analysis of yesterdays sale.

As a general rule, i have always worked on needing to get about $15,500 at sales ie $14000 in the hand in order to break even on most yearlings.

In yesterdays sale, there were 211 lots catalogued. Of those, 28 were sold for greater than $15,000.

In other words, 87% of yearlings were either taken home by their vendors or sold at a loss.

Now that cannot and will not continue...

[Triple V]

Here's an even worse stat for you Harvey.
Quantifying the losses involved here...even if the stallion services were free, I make it that close on 70% of them still wouldhave made a cent. That's roughly the same sort of figure as was recorded here in Sydney. Once again, only this time in NZ, Breeders are essentially paying buyers to take their yearlings. I thought it was meant to be the other way around. It simply cannot continue.

[teecee]

They filled a 6X4 whiteboard (I'd say 100+) lots bought back and available for private sale.

[Neil]

were you happy with your lot Tony?

wonder why I put our mare in foal again this year

not sellers but what is the future?

[Triple V]

Neil, here in Oz I strongly suspect that a whole host of Breeders went home from the Yearling Sales & aborted, to that point, safely in foal mares and honestly, can you blame them. I can't. The Sales on both sides of the Tasman have been an absolute bloodbath thus far.

[Neil]

could never do that

not sure what I would do for a hobby in the future - this addiction has been there for more than 40 years

[Triple V]

No, it's hard enough to get them in-foal as it is Neil. I can nevertheless still understand the place their heads are in right now.
You've got a whole swag of Breeders heading home from the Yearling Sales that are completely dejected after being summarily rooted with a full sized flame tempered Louisville Slugger baseball bat with a couple of 4 inch nails punched through it for good measure.......and instead of driving through their front gates and being uplifted by the sight of their in-foal mare/s...all that they see out in the paddock is a bunch of four-legged liabilities.
It's not all doom and gloom however as I do see much better times ahead for us here in NSW...but I am more certain now than ever before that the Industry has to physically & mentally rid itself of some really putrid baggage before it can begin to really enjoy the benefits of higher prizemoney levels, i.e. the scandal that broke cover back in July/August of last year and all those who were part of it.

[Starship Captain]

I'm just guessing but the costs involved and without including the service fee have more than doubled in the last 15 years.
The service fee's have more than tripled, what has the rise in prize money been in the last 15 years? It would be interesting to see this comparison, that's if any of you old bloke's on here can remember back that far back:)

[Triple V]

That's true. The fees for the better class/most popular sires are way above that which was up the top end of the scale as recently as 15 years ago.

Back when Jennas Beach Boy 1st came here to NSW I can remember talking to a leading Sydney based Trainer about the Breeding Industry & fees & he expressed concerns about the cost, I think it was $4,000 at the time, with his comment being.... "I don't know if the marketplace can stand such a high service fee...where are the mares going to come from at that price?".
A lot has come to pass since then of course, some years later Christian Cullen standing for 5 times more and still getting mares for example.

I'm sure an across the board reduction in service fees would be welcomed, and especially so by the sales focussed Breeders...well, those that are left at any rate, however I am not entirely convinced it is the panacea some sections of the Industry appear to think it is.
As has been pointed out a couple of times already, when reasonable production costs are taken into account, even if the respective service fees came for free...somewhere around 70% the yearling offered thus far in both AUS &NZ would still not have sold for a profit & a large slice of those would have sold for varying degrees of a loss.

In the end however, what happens at the Yearling Sales here in AUS is always going to be of little importance to the overall AUS Breeding Industry and I say that because, if my memory of the recent HRA Breeding Panel report is accurate, in this country better than 70% of the annual foal crop are raced by the person/people who bred them. They never see a sale ring. Close on 3/4's of the Breeders couldn't give a fat rats what the break even point is for those with a sales focus.

Getting back to the close on 70% of yearlings that wouldn't even make a profit for their Breeders if the service fee was for free that I mentioned a bit further above here....at a maximum I reckon they represent somewhere a tick or two below 20% of the annual foal crop & I seriously doubt that lack of a margin for their breeders is going to be anywhere enough to cause the Studs to make wholesale fee reductions...especially at the top end.
You'll see some tinkering here & there, it will be given a bit lip service for sure, but that is about it. One thing I think you will see is more delayed payment/Pay On Live Foal deals & not before time, IMO. The entire Industry should operate be on a Pay On Live Foal basis, IMO..and if not the entire Industry then at the very least those sires with the highest fees. Otherwise it will very quickly become unsustainable if it is not already so.

[eliteblood]

I think the old supply and demand principle will see service fees reduce. As the number of mares being bred falls, and especially at the top end of the service fee range, stallion owners will have no choice but to chase the business. They need full books to try and make money on their investment and service fee reductions, discounts and payment deals will be the order of the day. It will be interesting to watch.
As Jason suggested, the relationship between costs (service fees, other breeding costs, training fees, stakes payments) and average earning potential (prizemoney, handicapping) has risen greatly over the years. Service fees has probably been the most significant element in this respect.
I hope the sport and the economy sort themselves out soon. It's scary at the moment.

[teecee]

[QUOTE=Neil;18916]were you happy with your lot Tony?

Without bias....
No not really. I have wondered for the last 2 days what it was that buyers were looking for. Pedigrees meant nothing and from our experience neither did type.
The instructions were to sell and so he did. After not drawing a bid for his three minutes in the ring, all of a sudden somebody must have clicked who his uncle was and 9 bids took his price to 16k.I think the owners were a little shocked when I rang with the result. If they were here, I think I would be breaking him in next week but alas last years visit put them off for good. He wasn't far from what they hoped for so I have to say they were realistic i guess.
We had a nice colt. Any number of people on the bus tour commented on him. Some of the better judges I know thought him the best colt they saw that day.
when I saw him on Sunday at the parade, I couldn't believe how he had grown and filled out over the previous 10 weeks since we sent him north.
It's the same with most international pedigrees..most people don't understand them or their significance.
All I can say in ending...I'm glad we never contemplated selling the filly. She would never have reached her anything like her value. (owners' view)
I can see her heading states side. Artsplace mares have immeasurable value there.

econd day was more like the old third day...trainers' day. How did Mickee feel giving horses away. you get more for hacks than what the hammer fell on some of his horses. Pedigrees like some of them were headline grabbers a few years ago. Next thing he'll be having a trotters only Ready to Run sale and filling the catalog himself...!!!!!

Was 65K good money for a full bro to ITMQ.???
Is it still good money if that full bro is a RIG..?????

[Neil]

haven't talked to Mickeee since the sales. I don't know how he does it.

I'm just glad I work for a living and the horses are a use of that little bit of discretionary income.

him and I have a Sundon filly foal that we need to work out what to do with her.

not including her in the syndicate - gone with two The Pres foals - one out of a full to Roydon Flash.

[LisaB25]

[QUOTE=Neil;18916]were you happy with your lot Tony?

Without bias....
No not really. I have wondered for the last 2 days what it was that buyers were looking for. Pedigrees meant nothing and from our experience neither did type.
The instructions were to sell and so he did. After not drawing a bid for his three minutes in the ring, all of a sudden somebody must have clicked who his uncle was and 9 bids took his price to 16k.I think the owners were a little shocked when I rang with the result. If they were here, I think I would be breaking him in next week but alas last years visit put them off for good. He wasn't far from what they hoped for so I have to say they were realistic i guess.
We had a nice colt. Any number of people on the bus tour commented on him. Some of the better judges I know thought him the best colt they saw that day.
when I saw him on Sunday at the parade, I couldn't believe how he had grown and filled out over the previous 10 weeks since we sent him north.
It's the same with most international pedigrees..most people don't understand them or their significance.
All I can say in ending...I'm glad we never contemplated selling the filly. She would never have reached her anything like her value. (owners' view)
I can see her heading states side. Artsplace mares have immeasurable value there.

econd day was more like the old third day...trainers' day. How did Mickee feel giving horses away. you get more for hacks than what the hammer fell on some of his horses. Pedigrees like some of them were headline grabbers a few years ago. Next thing he'll be having a trotters only Ready to Run sale and filling the catalog himself...!!!!!

Was 65K good money for a full bro to ITMQ.???
Is it still good money if that full bro is a RIG..?????

purchased by the quinns syndicate, plus they took home quite a few other nice ones. Need to spend some of the 600k winners cheque i spose.