Sire selection help

[Greg Hando]

I am going to bred a foal this year and have no idea what to . So i was wondering which sire people might think would be a good choice for the mare Danerky ? She is 16 hh of med build, med bone and has a very quite disposition, she won 1 race going an embaressing 2.10 without raising a sweat and had problems with bouts of founder we were lucky to even get her to the races. Her first 7 dams were all winner and b/mare producers and i feel the family needs an injection of speed.
Also a mare named Karloo Nicky that my son wants to breed a foal from ( a gift from his grandfather ) any help would be appreciated.
She is just under 15hh and is a solid bodied but not heavy boned mare and very quiet. Both mares go back to foundation mare's the family had.
Thank you for reading and eagerly await your replies.

[strong persuader]

Hi Greg,

Danerky is suitable for many sires so it depends on the budget. On the cheap side of things, Abercrombie Dexter, Shadyshark Hanover and Mr Aviator all appeal. Whilst at the other end of the scale, Roll With Joe/Bettors Delight, McArdle, Badlands Hanover also appeal. In the middle you have options all the way with Tinted Cloud offering another infusion of Meadow Cheer/Betty G which could be interesting. I also noted that her single win was at that premier NSW track, Blayney :)

Karloo Nicky is not so wide open in the choice department, though being by Panorama is a huge plus in my books. Mr Aviator and Badlands are nice. Trump Casino could also be suitable.

Hope these examples give you some food for thought and wish you luck with any resulting progeny.

[Triple V]

I am going to bred a foal this year and have no idea what to . So i was wondering which sire people might think would be a good choice for the mare Danerky ? She is 16 hh of med build, med bone and has a very quite disposition, she won 1 race going an embaressing 2.10 without raising a sweat and had problems with bouts of founder we were lucky to even get her to the races. Her first 7 dams were all winner and b/mare producers and i feel the family needs an injection of speed.
Also a mare named Karloo Nicky that my son wants to breed a foal from ( a gift from his grandfather ) any help would be appreciated.
She is just under 15hh and is a solid bodied but not heavy boned mare and very quiet. Both mares go back to foundation mare's the family had.
Thank you for reading and eagerly await your replies.

[VVV] G'day Greg,
For Danerky I'd consider either American Ideal or Shadow Play because first and foremost they both had the point to point high speed you're looking for, they had it in spades, plus they good looking, well made individuals & they leave that in their foals. Additionally they were both great gaited and that's an absolute must for mine.
For Karloo Nicky I'd consider Sutter Hanover. He's a big horse, had a HUGE stride, went in a 64 inch hopple, went early (2yrs), had deceptive high speed. If the mare's a bit on the small side then he's what the Doctor ordered as he is odds on to put some size into the foal plus for the young fella he is also by no means expensive at $1,650 paid on 42 days.

[mightymo]

budget??

[dizzy]

Greg like Harvey asked an idea about your budget would help. As these are family mares are you looking to keep the foals to race, or are you looking to sell at the yearling sales? Are you interested in sires with regard to pedigree matching possibilities/stats or are you more about the physical characteristics and record of the stallion?

[Greg Hando]

About the 4k mark for each . The foals will be kept to race and am also interested in the pedigree matching side of sire selection.

[eliteblood]

Greg,

Always A Virgin is having good success with his first crop in the USA. He was a good racehorse and is throwing strong athletic foals.
Very cheap too at $2400.
Roll With Joe also brings a lot to the table at a fee of just over $4000.

[dizzy]

Greg as Phil has identified there is a pretty strong inflence from the Betty G family in Danerky with Cognac Hanover carry two strains and Shipps Fella being a direct tail female descendant (which you could argue hasn't helped you yet!) and he's given you a couple of options that double up on Tyler B and Tinted Cloud who is tail female to Betty G. Although he cant be described as a particularly successful as a sire you may want to look at Artesian for this mare. He is also an out cross on the sire line and he descends tail female from Betty G and carries Tyler B as sire of his second dam. Cognac Hanover second dam is the full sister to Artesian's fourth dam. Tyler B arguably did best with Race Time mares, Artesian has both Race Time and his full sister Touch of Spring. I like On The Road Again here too.

If you like really "tight" breeding you could look at Cammibest too.

Theres not much to work with in Karloo Nickys dam lines but being by Panorama you have a lot of options to double up on the Golden Miss family as there are quite a number of stallions who descend from GM. At the budget end there is JR Mint who has two strains of Golden Miss, through to Rocknroll Hanover! There are plenty in the middle with Real Desire, Tell All, Red River Hanover and Grinfromeartoear all descending from Golden Miss. GFETE of course has sons at stud now too.

There should be plenty of stats to sift through for Panorama as a broodmare sire too.

Disclaimer: these suggestions are from looking at paper only, you need to take into consideration the actual horses too!

[eliteblood]

Greg,

Village Jasper is another stallion that I think is outstanding value at $3300.
He has been an excellent sire of top class horses including 69 x $100k winners, (19 x $300k).
He is only small so would only suit the 16hh mare.

[Shannon]

$4k gives you a decent choice. Me personally would try some of the newer blood.Major in Art is well priced or not sure if you guys can get him there but If I Can Dream was a good horse who is well bred for his price. I suppose the latter could fall into the bettors/roll with joe debate as he's a full to Western Terror.

[Triple V]

Hey Greg, I wouldn't put him to a big mare but for the smaller mare you might also want to think about Artistic Fella.
You'll get a whole lot of horse for not a whole lot of $. He was an outstanding racehorse, won 12 races in sub 1:50 times, 7 in 1:48.4 or faster, won 10 straight Stakes races @ The Meadowlands as a 3yo & smashed them all in doing it, took a 1:48.0 lifetime mark, won a tick over $2.6million, he's a big, imposing individual & he leaves good looking, great sized foals. You can get into him for $3,400 Pay On Live Foal or $3,100 pay on 42 day test.
I'd be very surprised if he doesn't make an immediate impression with his 2yos here in Oz. While he shuttles back to Seelster's in CAN, he stood his 1st season here and so his first crop to the track will be actually Oz bred, they're rising 2yos now.

[ARTOFFICIAL]

Anyone have experience with McArdle or Santanna Blue Chip stock? Any traits or bad habits found? Thanks

[Toohard]

Anyone have experience with McArdle or Santanna Blue Chip stock? Any traits or bad habits found? Thanks

Gday Damien
Not related to traits - bad habits but was reading McArdle leads the 3yo percentages this season. 34 foals 16 winners. 47%. Mach 3 2nd 42% and Bettors 3rd 36%. He doesn't feature in the 2yo top 20 though.

[Triple V]

Anyone have experience with McArdle or Santanna Blue Chip stock? Any traits or bad habits found? Thanks

[VVV] G'day Damien,
On the whole I think McArdle's colts/geldings are a fair bit better than his fillies.
Don't know anything much about the Santana Blue Chips, have never seen any of them up close but he was a good gaited horse and a very smart 2yo.
Here's a link to the Canadian Yearling Sale.
http://standardbredcanada.ca/catalogue/yearling
There are a quite a few Santanna Blue Chips on the roster and a couple have video footage.

[eliteblood]

A couple of pics of Roll With Joe at Pepper Tree Farm

159
158

[Big Max]

Very impressive Trevor!

[Triple V]

Good looking horse huh? I like the 2nd pic. I'm hoping to be able to make the time between now and the start of the breeding season to get up to Pepper Tree and have a look at him and also Sportswriter and Rock N Roll Heaven.

[eliteblood]

Good looking horse huh? I like the 2nd pic. I'm hoping to be able to make the time between now and the start of the breeding season to get up to Pepper Tree and have a look at him and also Sportswriter and Rock N Roll Heaven.

Pepper Tree Farm is having a stallion parade and a small yearling sale of 23 lots on 30 Sept. The catalogue went up on the net today. http://www.graemeboard.com/graeme-board/index.cfm/pepper-tree-farms-spring-sale/
Canola Cup is on at Eugowra on the following day for anyone wanting an excuse to get away for a weekend.

[Triple V]

Pepper Tree Farm is having a stallion parade and a small yearling sale of 23 lots on 30 Sept. The catalogue went up on the net today. http://www.graemeboard.com/graeme-board/index.cfm/pepper-tree-farms-spring-sale/
Canola Cup is on at Eugowra on the following day for anyone wanting an excuse to get away for a weekend.

....and what a great excuse to avoid watching the NRL Grand Final too. I'd rather watch paint dry. I think it's a go Trevor. Are you heading out there?

[eliteblood]

Is that really grand final day ???
I'll be going to the sale in any case.

[Triple V]

Yep, September 30. NRL snoozefest. I must buy Rob a beer for providing salvation.

[eliteblood]

Greg,

Always A Virgin is having good success with his first crop in the USA. He was a good racehorse and is throwing strong athletic foals.
Very cheap too at $2400.
Roll With Joe also brings a lot to the table at a fee of just over $4000.

The Always A Virgin results continue to roll in. Today he sired the winners of both $200k Indiana Sires Stakes finals, and the 2nd placegetter in the colts division.
He has 9 in sub 1:55 and total earnings to date of $725k.

Greg, you started this thread looking for stallion selection advice. Have you made a decision.

[Greg Hando]

Yes today for Karloo Nicky . I decided to go to Tell All at this stage but myself and Kyle (son ) will make a final decision the end of Oct after the US season has gone for longer as Always a Virgin is doing such a great job over there. I will go to Pepper Tree and have a look at him and his yearling's as well before i make a final decision.We swayed to Tell All because of the fact i would have 3 x crosses of Panorama's maternal family which i believe to be one of the most consistent producing line's going around. As for Danerky still undecided but are contemplating Blissfull Hall or Always A Virgin .The Cam Fella line crosses well with her family and for Virgin being by Western Ideal the family has never been to a sire of the Western Hanover line before i also like Leah Almahurst as a broodmare . Ideally i should go to American Ideal and get both Leah Almahurst and 3 Diamonds in the family and pray for a filly to keep the family going strong.

[Greg Hando]

Greg as Phil has identified there is a pretty strong inflence from the Betty G family in Danerky with Cognac Hanover carry two strains and Shipps Fella being a direct tail female descendant (which you could argue hasn't helped you yet!) and he's given you a couple of options that double up on Tyler B and Tinted Cloud who is tail female to Betty G. Although he cant be described as a particularly successful as a sire you may want to look at Artesian for this mare. He is also an out cross on the sire line and he descends tail female from Betty G and carries Tyler B as sire of his second dam. Cognac Hanover second dam is the full sister to Artesian's fourth dam. Tyler B arguably did best with Race Time mares, Artesian has both Race Time and his full sister Touch of Spring. I like On The Road Again here too.

If you like really "tight" breeding you could look at Cammibest too.

Theres not much to work with in Karloo Nickys dam lines but being by Panorama you have a lot of options to double up on the Golden Miss family as there are quite a number of stallions who descend from GM. At the budget end there is JR Mint who has two strains of Golden Miss, through to Rocknroll Hanover! There are plenty in the middle with Real Desire, Tell All, Red River Hanover and Grinfromeartoear all descending from Golden Miss. GFETE of course has sons at stud now too.

There should be plenty of stats to sift through for Panorama as a broodmare sire too.

Disclaimer: these suggestions are from looking at paper only, you need to take into consideration the actual horses too!

Yes Dot Betty G in the blood hasn't helped a lot much to the disappointment of Pop.He thought she would cross well with the old family but has been a bit hit and miss, 1 cross was o'k but 2 was too much to put the Shipps Fella mares as it has turned out.

[Gtrain]

I might reach out for some help here also. I will be breeding a mare this year that I have no knowledge of its breeding whatsoever however she could run. Ran in a ladyship mile and is a striking chestnut of average size. Had plenty of speed. I just have absolutely no idea what may suit her bloodlines. Her name is Famegas Sister. Has never been bred to a comercial stallion and I have a small budget. Any advice would be appreciated. When you look at the breeding you will understand the interesting position.

[Triple V]

She's WIDE OPEN to which ever way you want to jump Grant. Wide open, like Sydney Heads.
Pick a good sized, good gaited horse and fire away.

[Gtrain]

Sort of thought as much. Did race and beat Sokyola, Mother Courage, Her Sparky Self and a few handy ones. Certainly exceeded all predecessors on both sides!!

[eliteblood]

As pedigrees go, they don't come any more obscure than that.
Interesting to see Sally Boy in the pedigree. The first mare we ever owned was by Sally Boy. That was back in 1968.

[Triple V]

You're an even older old bastard than I thought Trev. :rolleyes: That was the year I was foaled.

[Tangles]

I might reach out for some help here also. I will be breeding a mare this year that I have no knowledge of its breeding whatsoever however she could run. Ran in a ladyship mile and is a striking chestnut of average size. Had plenty of speed. I just have absolutely no idea what may suit her bloodlines. Her name is Famegas Sister. Has never been bred to a comercial stallion and I have a small budget. Any advice would be appreciated. When you look at the breeding you will understand the interesting position.

Exotic Earl may be worth a try

[Triple V]

Bang for your $ wise, Artistic Fella @ $3,100 is as good as you're going to get Grant.
That's a whole lot of horse for not a whole lot of $.

[Greg Hando]

Decisions have been made Shadyshark Hanover for Karloo Nicky and For A Reason for Danerky .

[ARTOFFICIAL]

Bang for your $ wise, Artistic Fella @ $3,100 is as good as you're going to get Grant.
That's a whole lot of horse for not a whole lot of $.

You rate the prospects of Artistic Fella Jaimie?? Or have you had any experience with some of his stock?? Interested in your thoughts mate.

[Triple V]

Yeh I do Damien. He was an out & out 3 headed Gorilla as a race horse, he is an impressive, imposing horse as a type & from what I've seen of them to date he's leaving good looking stock. Only bred the one, a big thumping strong filly & a very likeable horse with it. She had a mind of her own but she was not an idiot, just a forceful, pushy sort, liked to be in charge. Sold her to QLD & from what we've heard to date she is going really well. I can't see him missing the mark as a sire, I'd be shocked if he did. At this point in time for mine, a service fee of $3,100 for a horse that took a lifetime mark of 1:48 on a 5/8ths mile track, won $2.64mil incl. 10 straight Stakes wins as a 3yo @ The Meadowlands & against the best around & won no less than 7 races in 1:48.4 or faster...it seems very, very reasonable to me. We'll soon see, his oldest are current season 2yos here in Oz, I expect the 1st of them should start to race around Christmas/New Year. He stood his debut season at stud here so they'll be his first to race anywhere.

[ARTOFFICIAL]

Are you sure you are not Empire Stallions' publicity manager?? That is a good sell and has nearly convinced me..... In all serious thanks for your help mate :-)

[Triple V]

Nah, it's credit where it's due, that's all. If you get a chance to, go have a look at him in the flesh & you'll likely see what I mean. I think it's also reasonable to say/add that had he been a son of a higher profile/more well accepted stallion/sireline...such as Cam's Card Shark or Western Ideal or Artsplace, etc...instead of being by Pacific Fella, that he would be standing for a fair bit more $ than he is at present & he would've served bigger books/better mares.
I'm not a Pacific Fella fan myself...but this horse is what he is, he no more Pacific Fella than No Nukes was Oil Burner or than Abercrombie was Silent Majority....if that makes any sense to you at all. Hopefully, it does. :confused:

[strong persuader]

OK. It is my turn to turn to the sage wisdom of the board and ask should I or shouldn't I?

Have recently been given the chance to breed a Panorama mare, 14 yo Pepperama. She is a nice big mare without being huge, though her daughter Playing For Fun by Trump Casino would rank as an enormous mare. My thoughts are that Parsons Den would be a good choice as he fits the budget and is reasonably close to home.

So give us your thoughts, it would be appreciated.

[Tangles]

OK. It is my turn to turn to the sage wisdom of the board and ask should I or shouldn't I?

Have recently been given the chance to breed a Panorama mare, 14 yo Pepperama. She is a nice big mare without being huge, though her daughter Playing For Fun by Trump Casino would rank as an enormous mare. My thoughts are that Parsons Den would be a good choice as he fits the budget and is reasonably close to home.

So give us your thoughts, it would be appreciated.

I would consider JR MINT as he is located at the same stud and is out of the Golden Miss family as is Panorama. This may be the better option in my humble opinion. Best of luck.

[Triple V]

OK. It is my turn to turn to the sage wisdom of the board and ask should I or shouldn't I?

Have recently been given the chance to breed a Panorama mare, 14 yo Pepperama. She is a nice big mare without being huge, though her daughter Playing For Fun by Trump Casino would rank as an enormous mare. My thoughts are that Parsons Den would be a good choice as he fits the budget and is reasonably close to home.

So give us your thoughts, it would be appreciated.

[VVV] G'day Phil. Not trying to put you off going Parsons Den...he has done a pretty good job IMO, we bred one from a mare purchased in foal to him and it went well, has won his last 2 in WA in fine style. The only thing I'd caution on is that his stock tend to toe out a bit in front and although they usually don't interfer as much as their front end builds would suggest they will, if at all...if your mare toes out as well I'd proceed with a bit of caution. You'd swear the colt we bred would have cracked his knees pretty good but he didn't. He just gives one a light brush. His dam was very front end correct. I like the Dragon's Lair/Dragon Again line, I think they're honest horses, they give you what they've got.

[Tangles]

Anybody bred to sire, any thoughts +/- idea's.