Premium Gold Sale????

[justdoit]

Did anyone get to this sale, or have any thoughts on the results.

APGOLD have not provided a live video link??
It is dissapointing for all those in harness racing that cannot make it to the sales, but do not worry we can watch some other major events around the world live while the sales are on. Cutting horses, wood chopping, collage football, someones barn in Denmark, and don't forget sexygirl81's live web cam:)
The cost to provide this to the harness racing public must be to much for APGOLD, I do not know how these other major events can afford it:)

[nat]

It is disapointing wasnt it 2 years a go they had live web cast and updates on sale's

[nat]

These are the thing NZ leave us in OZ dead in the water for ready to run sale live web video and updates and every race in it's entireity and not a bad format

[justdoit]

Hi Nat,
The NZers have taken on much more of a NA format and it is great, the Australians when it comes to these things IMO can be a little slow:( Technology can be tricky:)
Did the APG have free alcohol?

[nat]

Wouldnt know about the grog I was home building an Ark for all the rain (Lol)

I have bought a few NZ horse and looked at a 100 more and its grate that you can look up the races, trials & breeding aswell as see any video of race aswell as any photos taken. I do a lot of computer browsing and the NZ site very user friendly

[triplev123]

I'm very disappointed that it has been dropped. It seems as though the APG tried it, initially it didn't work all that well so rather than attempting to make some improvements & try again they just shut it down all together. I'm puzzled by that because it is not that hard. My 9yo daughter could set one up. A good quality webcam aimed at the sales ring and another aimed at a plain background would allow for both coverage of the horses being sold & alternately a few on the spot interviews with Vendors, Buyers, Trainers & so on. That's how you put a bit of feel into the sale. You only have to see the ringside/stable row interviews they conduct during the Magic Millions for a heads up of how to do it. Furthermore a couple of good quality webcams and the hardwear to support them would cost 4/5ths of bugger all relatively. The feed out of Harrisburg this year was excellent & it was also in a format such that if you missed anything you could download a recording of the webcast it and replay it later on.

[mightymo]

last night was very disappointing IMO. about 5 high priced lots and the rest pretty disappointing.

Of the 89 lots, at least 20 were buybacks.

Fillies just dont get prices they deserve. The average filly price is WAY below that of the colts

Not a single Falcon Seelster lot sold - all 4 were buybacks

There were 5 Cullens - 2 were buybacks, 2 sold for 20K and 1 sold for 10K - all way below the service fee paid

[triplev123]

G'day Mightymo,

My initial reaction is that those results are very, very difficult to impossible to distinguish from any normal sale day session.
I'm sure it's also the case the buyers know that not all of the good ones were nominated for/in the Premium Sale & that there are still a swag of very good prospects set to go under the hammer both tomorrow and again in Sydney in 3 weeks time.

[peacheymagic]

You're spot on there Nat the australian harness racing site is miles behind in terms of being user friendly compared to the nz site. What good are video replays when you only get to see the last lap? Its tough to analyse a race when you only see the last lap. how is a punter or potential owner mean't to know if the horse has gate speed or not, stepped well from the stand or missed it.

[mango]

Hi Mightymo
One of the falcon colts was mine and yes it was a buy back i've since bought the other owners out as i was not prepared to let him go at that price. I think i had a realistic price on him and i normally only race fillies but you can't just give them away.

Hi Triplev123
To be honest with you the A.P.G lot need to get a bomb put under them, last night whilst at the sale's i had phone calls comming left right and centre asking where the live view link was and i thought they would be showing it for sure. If it's meant to be a premium sale surely they can have live web cast for interested viewers. There's some cost cutting going on but where is the money going?

[mightymo]

Sale average was $28000, fillies average was $22000, so colts average was 34000. In other words, fillies avg was 35% below that of the colts

Thats ridiculous.

I dont know what needs to be done, but something has to happen

[Flashing Red]

Isn't that strange, the difference. If I ever had the money, I wouldn't mind spending up on a filly, because if she isn't much good you can still breed from her and she may still end a good broodmare.

A colt, however... if he's no good well then you are NEVER going to recoup the money!

That's my outlook, anyway. :) Not as risky with fillies IMHO :)

[justdoit]

Hi Mightymo,
This years results are what I was expecting to have happened at last years sale. The fillies average sale price is always below that of the colts at all the yearling sale around the world. I agree with Flashing Reds post, and as a breeder I find it hard to understand the value that most fillies bring at auction. As Flashing Red stated they do have a re-sale value, even if unraced and just on their pedigree alone. Bugger that's the problem, I am thinking like a breeder and not like most buyers/trainers who could not give a crap about breeding foals/yearlings.IMHO:)
Questions- Do fillies/mares race for less money?
- Have the service fees on new stallions increased at a faster rate over the last 5-10 years than prize money= the value of our yearlings?

2011 (90 lots) the total? 35 fillies

2010 (75 Lots) $2,561,500 23 fillies

2009 (70 Lots) $2,524,000 32 fillies



TripleV123,
I thought the same thing the sale results did not look like a premium sale.
$10,000 is the costs for us, without the service fee. Add the service fee and it looks a tough business to be in:(

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

Again, like the issues some Vendors apparently had with stabling down there, down to the wire the whole thing goes and then all of a sudden on sale day people notice there will not be any Webcast??????
Like yourself I would very much prefer that there be an obligatory webcast for every APG sale from every venue every year however the time to have raised with the APG the subject of there not being one in place this time around was back before Christmas at least or even further back again when nominations were first being called for and accepted.
I can only speak for my own experiences in that these guys are neither deaf nor blind. They may not neccessarily agree with but they will listen to your concerns & if enough people have similar objections or requirements then of course they will look into making changes. There are a few things I'd like to see changed or improved upon...but that's just business. Nothing in any area of endeavour should ever be allowed to become static...because once you come to a halt that's as good as going backwards & the next move from a halt is definitely bacwards.
Maybe every year there should be a Sales Company/Vendor/Preparer review of proceedings?
Something formalised where Vendor/Preparer concerns are committed to paper and put forward to the Sales Company and they'd have to address those concerns by answering in a similar fashion... or something along those lines? Just a thought. Personally I dread committees and the like...the saying that "A Camel is a horse put together by a Committee" is for mine one of the great truths of life, however when needs must.

[mango]

Hi Triplev123
I didn't no there wouldnt be any web cast and if i had of known before chirstmas i would of e-mailed them as to find out why. The talk at the sale's is that the A.P.G does what ever suits them without any consultation with breeders/vendor/preparer a lot werent happy with the scrapping of the 3yo series as not all horses are 2yr old's. I think you have made a valid point where people should be able to air there concerns in a letter and then for it to be discussed i would also like to see some of the bigger vendors sit in on these meetings to give there view. A gentleman from a stud farm rang the A.P.G about the dropping of the 3yr old series and there reply to him was read the front of the sale book as we can do what ever we want when we want. And another gentleman said when these horses were nominated for theses sales there were 3yr old series he then said i wonder how you would go if you wanted to challenge it legally as i know nothing about the legal system my answer was i don't no.

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

The 3yo Series should never, ever have come into being in the first place. Perhaps they were or perhaps they felt obliged to try it but with nowhere near enough initial support via 3yo sustainers followed by just 17 nominations when the Heats & Finals roll around, from there on in it was always going to be in the corss hairs.
The APG initially was and it should always have remained a 2yo series. It was never meant to be anything more.
It's somewhat beside the point however another interesting fact to consider is that of all the 3yo Finals to have been conducted, how many do you think were won by the Cinderella Story at 2yrs lightly raced or unraced...3yo? To my knowledge to date none of the 3yo Finals thus far have been won by a horse that did not race at 2yrs and more often than not the 2yo 1-2-3 finishers are the same bunch of horses again at 3yrs. Happy to be corrected there but I've wracked the old grey matter and I can't think of a single horse who came with a clean slate at 3yrs to win the 3yo Final. The argument that 'they are not all 2yos' is quite true however for the purposes of this race, to my knowledge it has proven to be furphy.

[Flashing Red]

APG have been robbing people for years. The 2yo races have remained 300k for ages, yet it has dramatically become more expensive to pay up for it. I had this big long post typed up when this issue was first raised and lost it so I didn't bother with it. It showed how over the years, APG have been taking more and more money (fee related, like with buy backs, sustaining payments, etc) yet the prizemoney for 2yos doesn't increase. Breeders Crown makes periodic raising to all their races. My bet was that APG was just waiting for BC to catch up with them re stakes amount, now that they have they will do something about it.

One is much, much better paying $300 to race in the 150k Seymour series, than thousands of dollars to race in the APG 300k race. I don't know what people you have been hanging around Triplev, but I'm with Mango on this - the industry (or participants I have spoken to) have not had much good to say about the APG for a number of years. Biggest beef of all was prizemoney being so static, yet the fees involved increasing substantially. Scrapping the 3yo series, whether there was suppose to be a 3yo series at all to start off with or not, will be the death knell for APG, IMHO. Unless they make (and they SHOULD make) the 2yo finals AT LEAST 400k. Which I can't see happening. APG use to be the most prestigious series in Australia. I believe that Breeders Crown has already taken over. Should APG want to try and return to their former glory, nothing less than 400k 2yo races will do, if they want to scrap the 3yo ones.

[triplev123]

G'day Flashing,

EXCELLENT POINT about the prizemoney having remained static for years. It has been 300k total for a long, long time and given that in terms of costs everything else has increased that's something that needs to be addressed. Could not agree more.

[justdoit]

Hi TripleV123, I did by mistake think that APG would have a live feed of the sales.
It could have been that they claim to be the forward thinkers in the industry that I was incorrect.
I think its time for a change:) (On the Board)

[buster]

1. the beer was warm, very disappointing lol
2. fillys were ridiculous, i would never ever take one there, they were just giving them away (i agree with flash, they are just as good money spinners because they dont have to race colts at 2 or 3 when the good money is on anyway)
3. i know for a fact a buyer missed a lot because he couldnt get a live feed and had trouble ringing someone in time to buy it for him
4. thought it was very rude how they treated some larger buyers, they were just begging underbidders to go one higher because they knew the other would keep going

[Shakamaker]

G'day Flashing,

EXCELLENT POINT about the prizemoney having remained static for years. It has been 300k total for a long, long time and given that in terms of costs everything else has increased that's something that needs to be addressed. Could not agree more.

They introduced a Gold Bonus a few years back whereby a horse that was paid up would get a $1500 bonus on their first win as a 2yo or 3yo I think it was. Without the Gold Bonus, they may well be able to race for $400k. However by paying a bonus out, more owners get to share in the cash whereas if this was directed back into the Race Series only the connections of the winner really benefit from the extra stake.

[Flashing Red]

They introduced a Gold Bonus a few years back whereby a horse that was paid up would get a $1500 bonus on their first win as a 2yo or 3yo I think it was. Without the Gold Bonus, they may well be able to race for $400k. However by paying a bonus out, more owners get to share in the cash whereas if this was directed back into the Race Series only the connections of the winner really benefit from the extra stake.

They have enough money to do both, IMHO. They collect so much money from so many different avenues...

[Shakamaker]

They have enough money to do both, IMHO. They collect so much money from so many different avenues...

I'm not sure how much money they collect but I know that the PGG 2YO Sales Series Finals in NZ are also worth $300K and they probably have a similar number of horses go through their sale.

By the time APG run two $300K Finals and then run 10 heats/repechages for each sex, there is $1M in stakes that they are paying out each season.

[buster]

it is a private company, they have no obligation to put all of the money back int the series

[nat]

Dose anyone know the figures of that with mare's, foal's,yearling series fee's paid

[aussiebreno]

Last year from 14 less lots the total $$$ sales were more! Prices well down.

[buster]

nat if your asking what it costs to pay up, i think its a total of 3700 to be fully sustained for the series

[nat]

Hi Buster

No how many sales and non sales horses were paid up for this series
Got a bit carried away was thinking of the Breeders Crown system with the "mare's, foal's,yearling series fee's paid" quote

[mango]

Hi Nat
There was 70 non sale entries payed up and every horse that went through the sale on friday night had to be paid up all other sale's are up to the purchaser whether to pay up or not.

Hi Buster
$3700 is to be a non sale entrant but you still have to pay $990 by the 31/10/11 and another $990 by the 31/1/12 to remain eligible for the series.

[nat]

Hi Mango as a vender what do you think are the issues, you had a Seelster colt in the sale not a cheap execise to par take in

What would make you want to sell/buy a horse in this series?
More prize money
Seller incentives
Less fees
Fees spread out
Loosening the system to entice more nominations for non sales and sale horses and lesser fee's for sales horse's
Selling all horses at one venue and racing at one venue

[mango]

Hi Nat
As there didn't seem to be much hype at the premium sale i would like to see them all in the 1 barn, i would also like to see them drop from 90 to 70 and if that means my yearling misses out so be it. The other thing i don't agree on and i said this in a post last wk why should the people who purchase colts have to pay the same money to race in the series as fillies as fillies can now earn 3 $2000 bonuses and the colts only 1 and that is in there 2yr old year. I do understand they have done this to entice people to buy fillies but looking at the sale results so far it hasn't changed. Instead of handing out bonuses 3 to fillies and 1 to the colts why don't they hand a $5000 bonus to both sexes on there first tab win as a 3yr old, we all know some horses are just not 2yr old's so this will still give them a chance to pick up a nice bonus as a 3yr old. And i do think they should make the non sale entry $2000 that way more people will pay up, alot of people put there yearlings in the sale cause they no it works out cheaper to pay commission on say $15,000 and then pay the $990 on the day.

[buster]

maybe the horses going through the ring just aren't good enough to be making the big money, i really dont like the non-sale entry option, its a sale series that lets horses not offered for sale in it...ridiculous

[nat]

I like the Idea of one barn for the Premium sale if your a serious buyer you dont want look all around town for the horses and quality should be shown on this level if there was 70 top lot dont have 90 good lots people want to see cream on friday night and event. I always say its better to have a lot of little than little of a lot so restructuring the fees and system and bonuses could hook in the breeder that has no real intention of selling their horse to the series.

[mightymo]

I have so much to say, i dont know where to start.

The bottom line is that it was an incredibly difficult sale for just about every vendor. I know auction sales are not supposed to be like lotteries, but they are not supposed to be like giving donations either!

The biggest problem is fillies, fillies, fillies. Over the 2 days, colts averaged $20500 and fillies $13500. The discrepancy is outrageous. We really need to do a lot more to make fillies more attractive to buy and race.

I totally disagree with mango. Rather than have 3x$2000 bonuses for fillies, I would have 1 x $6000 bonus on its a first win.The other big thing is that we have to drastically change programming around the country. Much like the US, we need to have multiple races on every meet for fillies and mares only.

I was told that in 1 state last month, only 7% of races run were for fillies only...

One particular very large vendor said to me yesterday, that unless something changes soon, you might as well knock any fillies on the head at birth... Very sad but that is what it has come too.

As for having a premium sale and the normal sale, i m not sure. It was certainly worth a try, but im inclined to put it all back together as one melb sale.

As for Non sale entries, i dont think there should be any. If you want to go in a 300K race, you should have to go to the ring

I also think there should be a sliding scale for buyabcks - if you buyback a 50K horse, you should pay 10% but if you buyback a 10K purchase, you should pay say $200 flat

[nat]

Its a shame that the fillies are an issue I always look at the up scale of having a filly to breed with at the end but people that race dont always wont to breed and with no real filly / mares only racing on a consistant scale it dose make it hard for the non breeding buyer to consider.

Hi mightymo I like the idea of the sliding scale of buybacks it dose make it hard to get people interested when buybacks are above what you would say a reasonable price for a horse.

[mango]

Hi Mightymo
I don't like the 3 $2000 bonuses either if you read my post you will see that i would rather a one of $5,000 bonus for both fillies and colts as a 3yr old or as you said there first win. And i do agree with you on the buybacks, the main reason i said to bring the fee down for non sale entrants was because i know of people who put there horses in the sale only to buy them back which most of the times works out cheaper for them then paying up for the non sale. And i would love to see fillies/mares only races programmed a lot more.

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Hello,

I have suggested this to studs previously without much success. If you want to help the breeder who sells their yearlings at auction, knowing that a colt will outsell a filly every time adjust the stud fee accordingly.

For an example: stallion stud fee of $ 10,000. I think it would be fairer to charge
$ 12,000 if you get a colt and $ 8,000 for a filly. This would mean that if you got a colt you would owe the stud $2,000 and if you got a filly they would owe you $2,000. Because of this it becomes more complicated making it harder to initiate. Give people the option of paying $ 10,000 for the stallion fee regrdless of gender, or charge the service fee at $12,000 upfront and if you get a colt all is even, and if you get a filly the stud gives you a refund of $4,000. As you would assume that studs would be against giving you money back directly how about a $4,000 credit off of the next years service fee. Assuming 50% colts & 50% fillies the studs would receive the same revenue and the breeder recives some help if they have less income from the sale of a filly.

Food for thought !

Regards,

Sue

[buster]

be interesting to see how many vets will sex test the sperm if they have the equipment even though its against the rules of racing now

[Flashing Red]

maybe the horses going through the ring just aren't good enough to be making the big money, i really dont like the non-sale entry option, its a sale series that lets horses not offered for sale in it...ridiculous

Because you have some people that would buy their horses back no matter what - and others that would run them up to ridiculous prices, knowing that, to be smart. If this were the case, these very people that endorse the non-sale entries might decide that there are plenty of other big races to go in, without a high commission, and skip the series altogether. Then APG misses out. As you rightly pointed out, it is a private company - and like any company, out to make money.

[Flashing Red]

be interesting to see how many vets will sex test the sperm if they have the equipment even though its against the rules of racing now

They can do things like inseminating a tad early or delaying it a bit to increase the liklihood of a colt or a filly. It might be the difference from inseminating that evening or rather first thing the next morning. Obviously its not completely accurate but sometimes you do want one more than the other, for whatever reasons...

[nat]

Its hard to get the studs to drop fees it is a costly exercise shutteling stallions but on the other hand as these fillies are the breeding future more so than colts in this part of the world, would it be idea then for the governing body to waver fees for fillies when born no registration fees at all ?

I had a filly born this year in Victoria to a NZ sire slapped with a $300 registration insted of $175 because she is by a NZ pacing stallion the import registration on a Filly/Mare into Victoria is $135 this is what the breeder is up against

[mightymo]

Hi Mightymo
I don't like the 3 $2000 bonuses either if you read my post you will see that i would rather a one of $5,000 bonus for both fillies and colts as a 3yr old or as you said there first win. And i do agree with you on the buybacks, the main reason i said to bring the fee down for non sale entrants was because i know of people who put there horses in the sale only to buy them back which most of the times works out cheaper for them then paying up for the non sale. And i would love to see fillies/mares only races programmed a lot more.

im suggesting a $6000 bonus for fillies, but not for colts

[mango]

Hi Mightymo
I do agree more has to be done for fillies/mare's as they are our breeding stock of the future but i believe it shouldn't be done through a race series where a colt and a filly have the same race payments it should be done by each state programming more fillies/mare's only race's. And as i said about 2wks ago in a post my preference is to race fillies but i can see people's points of view about paying up for a colt only to recieve less than a filly. And just so you know that i'm not being bias towards the colts as i only have 2 foals on the ground at present and hopefully they will go to the sale and they are fillies so by me saying this isn't helping me out any.

[triplev123]

G'day Sue,

Years ago Direct Scooter stood to a fee that was discounted for fillies on the basis that as racehorses his fillies actually were or they were perceived by the marketplace to be inferior to his colts. It was quite easy to institute because he stood on the US basis of Pay On Live Foal so you knew what you had and paid accordingly...but nevertheless I think that the idea has great merit. Whether or not Southern Hemisphere Farms see it that way is another matter.
Personally I've come to believe that there should be a fee discount across the board for resultant fillies. If the various State and National Bodies continue to do nothing meaningful by way of levelling up racing opportunities for fillies & mares then clearly something has to give somewhere else because it cannot continue as it is. In no small way is their value relative to colts the result of the fact that here in Australia 2yo fillies either have to race the 2yo colts & geldings or if not, stay at home in their stables and not race at all. In my opinion that is nothing short of a NATIONAL DISGRACE.

[buster]

They can do things like inseminating a tad early or delaying it a bit to increase the liklihood of a colt or a filly. It might be the difference from inseminating that evening or rather first thing the next morning. Obviously its not completely accurate but sometimes you do want one more than the other, for whatever reasons...

they can actually now screen the semen somehow to increase the chances, could be up to 80-90%, it started off as being used in the dairy industry as steers are worthless to them

yes flash people would run them up etc but at least they actually go through the ring and if someone has a big budget then they could still buy the horse, plenty go through the ring now that are not for sale

if they can't increase the returns through prizemoney then the obvious option is to reduce costs, and i think hrnsw and hrv could help the breeding industry through this too - all those fees and regos add up and people dont need more incentives not to want a horse

[buster]

i think the vicbred bonus' are the best

[aussiebreno]

i think the vicbred bonus' are the best

Agreed.

[triplev123]

Speaking of Bonus $ & so on, the announcement of Prizemoney Increases here in NSW and particularly at Menangle will be something to behold. Starts from July 1st this year. I hear it'll be something along the lines of C0's etc up to 12k then Metro grade events starting at 20k for M0's & then stepped upwards from there at intervals through to M3/4+'s for 28k. Whatever the exacts happen to be it will be the highest prizemoney available in Australia. BRING IT ON!

[aussiebreno]

Speaking of Bonus $ & so on, the announcement of Prizemoney Increases here in NSW and particularly at Menangle will be something to behold. Starts from July 1st this year. I hear it'll be something along the lines of C0's etc up to 12k then Metro grade events starting at 20k for M0's & then stepped upwards from there at intervals through to M3/4+'s for 28k. Whatever the exacts happen to be it will be the highest prizemoney available in Australia. BRING IT ON!

Just as long as they haven't got too greedy with the benefits this early on I am all for it.

[buster]

pity i wont have a horse good enough to win there ever

[justdoit]

Last year we had a yearling that we did not want to send to the sales, we wanted to keep her and she had been wrapped in cotton wool:) I called the sales company and requested a non sales entry form and asked how much it would cost.
The reply was, non sale entries and late entries are welcome, the fee payable is equal to the prize money of the series final.
She was not entered.

[BenScadden]

The sale wasn't too successful from our point of view - $20k for a Jeremes Jet colt (easily the best colt we've bred - I'm confident he'll make it on the track) and $9k for an Art Major filly (who had a few conformation flaws).

It seems the best recipe for success this year was to have a monstrous Art Major colt. The $100k colt was one of the biggest yearlings I've ever seen. If he continues growing at that rate, he'll be over 18hh by the time he's done.

If I was buying a yearling, I think I would have had a great time. There were a few yearling I liked a lot that didn't bring top dollar - and some of the high-priced ones I didn't like at all. To me, it felt like a lot of the top-end buyers were 'trend' driven (paying big money for one because it was popular), rather than doing their own homework.

I spoke to a top trainer (very high-profile) who told me he bought one on Friday night because it had a white snip on its nose!!! I guess that's why he has never developed a good young horse in his life. I still find it pretty amazing that one newcomer to the owning ranks has chosen him as his trainer. Talk about a recipe for failure. But that's what we're dealing with sometimes.

I'm just glad we weren't breeders who paid top dollar for a Christian Culllen service when these yearlings were bred. I'm not 100% sure but I reckon his fee may have been $25k that year ... and some of his yearlings struggled past $10k. Now that's painful.

I do believe we pay too much for stud fees - greedy stallion owners cashing in while they can. I guess it's all about demand, though ... and plenty of breeders are willing to pay $15k to go to Art Major this season - even though a lot of his yearlings will struggle to fetch that at a yearling sale in a couple of years.

If you go through a yearling catalogue and compare the average sales price with the average earnings of the entries, it doesn't take long to realise there are plenty of buyers who have no chance of a return.

It's a tough game ... and very few have a recipe for success.

[buster]

i agree ben, some of the higher end lots i had no idea why they were bringing so much

and many good cullens, mach threes and bettors delight (all as good or better sires than art major) who couldnt get their service fee back

[BenScadden]

I'm heading to NZ for their sales ... might keep an eye out for a quality Cullen filly. Reckon there will be some real bargains because all the Kiwi trainers will be absolutely red-hot on Bettors Delight.

[justdoit]

Hi Love of Courage,
The stud farms can agree to any payment arrangment that they are willing to, I do not think they would refuse any reasonable breeding terms if it helps get them a return. $

A horse called On The Road Again had something like what you have suggested later in his stud career in Canada. His fillies being better
than his colts, thats coming from a memory that is not that great:)

Hi Ben,
Do you think that many broomares will all of a sudden appear for sale after the result of the sales.
It is the time to buy.

[justdoit]

Despite the overall increase in sales averages and clearance rates across the weekend, the Premium Gold Sale suffered a decline in average, mainly due to the additional 14 lots that went through the ring in 2011.

I don't think so.

[Shakamaker]

G'day Sue,

Personally I've come to believe that there should be a fee discount across the board for resultant fillies. If the various State and National Bodies continue to do nothing meaningful by way of levelling up racing opportunities for fillies & mares then clearly something has to give somewhere else because it cannot continue as it is. In no small way is their value relative to colts the result of the fact that here in Australia 2yo fillies either have to race the 2yo colts & geldings or if not, stay at home in their stables and not race at all. In my opinion that is nothing short of a NATIONAL DISGRACE.

I think that there are plenty of opportunities for Fillies and Mares in Victoria atleast. That is why I race my fillies there. Have a look at last seasons Breeders Crown 2yo Fillies winner - Passions Promise. Hardly had to ever go up against the colts as a 2yo. Can stick to fillies company as a 3yo and still plenty of good mares races for her when she reaches 4. Led Suitcase the previous Breeders Crown 2yo fillies winner is the same. Rarely has to race against the male horses until she gets to open class. Make Mine Cullen too even though she is now in Open Class still regularly has Mares FFA races that she can race in and has had plenty of races against her own sex for her to race in along the way. The problem is that other owners of Fillies and Mares do not always want to support these races an go up against the likes of Make Mine Cullen.

[triplev123]

[QUOTE=buster;2779]they can actually now screen the semen somehow to increase the chances, could be up to 80-90%, it started off as being used in the dairy industry as steers are worthless to them

Triple says...That's quite correct Buster. Equine semen can indeed be sorted but in their wisdom(?) I am certain that HRA have recently moved to make said process against the rules. I don't know that I agree with it though, I think it is more than just a bit hypocritical actually, because they're quite happy for the Industry to use every other assisted breeding technique known to man.

[BenScadden]

Hi Ben,
Do you think that many broomares will all of a sudden appear for sale after the result of the sales.
It is the time to buy.

I'm sure there will be some people who decide it's financially unviable (which it is for most people).

We breed and race horses because we love it ... not because we want to get rich. You know that old joke ... "how do you earn a million dollars from harness racing? Start with two million".

Having said that, I guess we also don't want to lose money hand over fist. As I said in an earlier post, I think one of the biggest issues is the stud fees. If you bred to Art Major this season, you'd need to get at least $25k for that foal to break even. It's a tough ask.

[mango]

Does anyone one reckon there would be any merit in trying to get a Ready To Run sale going here in Australia, i mean Aussie's by from that sale over in n.z and i reckon if run properly at a track like shepparton which isn't to far off the highway it could work. Recently Ross Pike held a sale where yearlings were only broke in and you could drive them and buy and i've been told only 2 didn't sell. I know a person who purchased 2 from that sale and one was a filly that he said on paper he wouldn't of purchased it but after driving her he signed the cheque and home she went. I think this could be another option for horses that don't make there reserve at the yearling sale's, and i do understand it might go the other way where a yearling hits it's knee etc. Just wondering what people's thoughts on this would be.

[aussiebreno]

Does anyone one reckon there would be any merit in trying to get a Ready To Run sale going here in Australia, i mean Aussie's by from that sale over in n.z and i reckon if run properly at a track like shepparton which isn't to far off the highway it could work. Recently Ross Pike held a sale where yearlings were only broke in and you could drive them and buy and i've been told only 2 didn't sell. I know a person who purchased 2 from that sale and one was a filly that he said on paper he wouldn't of purchased it but after driving her he signed the cheque and home she went. I think this could be another option for horses that don't make there reserve at the yearling sale's, and i do understand it might go the other way where a yearling hits it's knee etc. Just wondering what people's thoughts on this would be.

Good idea imo

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

It has been tried a couple of times...Board & Co held one at Goulburn a year or two back...but what tends to happen is that people put them in initially, they break them in and get them up & going, find that they've got one that can clip along a bit and they decide to keep it for themselves or otherwise they put a silly price on it. You would need a group of vendors that were genuinely committed to selling. On that score I really must applaud Ross for having done what he has done recently with those yearlings. I heard he had moved most of them as well and well played to him. He's a very good horseman and thinks outside of the square. We had him come up to Sydney and do his easy lead foal work with last year's group youngsters and the difference it made in a very short space of time was quite remarkable.

[buster]

i think ross' sale worked because he was the only one to do it and that he sold all the horses available, they weren't just rejects

he had good quality horses available for various prices and a limited number of them, a sure fire way to do horse business imo (alot like the kiwis who sell 99% of them, not just the rejects like in aussie)

if the apg premium sale only had 20 lots go through it would have been amazing

[justdoit]

I agree, good on Ross and Co for giving it a go. If he continues with it and it is successful others will follow. The same happened in the gallops.

The problem for breeders is getting a return on the amount of money you have invested in the yearling up until the time of sale.
We breed 10 mares on average each year, they all have their good and bad qualities. We breed to improve the offspring and to make them
attractive at the time of sale to buyers. Each year we seem to have all the different types of mares to breed from, maiden mares, old mares, empty mares,
foaling mares, all different ages. When we are working out the bookings for the year all the mares are looked at, as to what is the chance of them
getting in-foal. It varies from year to year, the average is 70% in-foal. Then we average 6 live foals, and then we have 4 to 5 yearlings to sell.
I started and still have 10+ mares and only have 4 to 5 yearlings to sell?? When I last looked all my weanling's are fillies SHIT. Thanks for the information
Mightymo. We very rarely send horses to auction unless they are sold prior to the sale, at the buyers request.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v48xTF8EYnA
Could be the Premium sale next year.

Could the Breeders Crown put on a sale, increase their prize money and give the APG teamsters something to ponder:)




RHODIUM CASTLE. winner, this is one of the horses from Raceapacer. Good to see it win and nicely bred.

[aussiebreno]

I agree, good on Ross and Co for giving it a go. If he continues with it and it is successful others will follow. The same happened in the gallops.

The problem for breeders is getting a return on the amount of money you have invested in the yearling up until the time of sale.
Have to get going, will finish this later.

RHODIUM CASTLE. winner, this is one of the horses from Raceapacer. Good to see it win and nicely bred.
Its bad seeing Rhodium Castle win lol. Was the only one I was interested in of about 5 and almost bought a share but lack of funds that I could justify buying it.

[justdoit]

Hi Aussiebreno, How many shares were sold in each horse?

[aussiebreno]

Hi Aussiebreno, How many shares were sold in each horse?
Shares were sold for either 5%, 10% or 20%. And I think it was really 2.5%, 5% and 10% as Raceapacer only owned 50% anyway.
EDIT: They also take the horse off you when it turns 4 or 5. Forget the price of a 5% share now but I remember, after expenses, they had to win close to $100K to break even.

[buster]

i looked at that, but i didnt like the trainers they were going to, and if im not mistaken theyve sacked a trainer to send it to b lilley?

[mango]

Since the melbourne a.p.g sale's have concluded Ross has been bombarded with phone calls to break some in with the view of selling them the same way.

[justdoit]

I hope Ross gets good numbers for his next sale and will be very surprised if he does not.

Hi aussiebreno,
A share just to race, i would not be interested.

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Hello,

The comments about the yearlings that ross has broken in and sold has me very curious. If someone could please give some more information it would be ver much appreciated. I sold only 1 of my 3 yearlings at the Brisbane APG sales and like this idea or a 2 year old ready to run sale.

I think that a new term needs to be brought into play. Buy back if the owner decides the price is 2 low and retains or wanted to keep anyway. How about "take backs" as most of the $ 4000 sale prices are for horses that did not receive a bid such as 2 of mine that did not recieive a bid.

[buster]

http://destinydowns.net/ his contact details are on there if you want to have a chat to him about it

[Love Of Courage]

Thanks Buster !

Much appreciated.