Lance Armstrong

[Danno]

See the international cycling body has wiped Lance's 7 Tour de France victories from the records.....another grubby cheat who accepted all the accolades whilst cheating his fellow competitors...people who were no doubt busting a gut to try and beat him fair and square and being thrown into self doubt because this grub was unbeatable with his spineless tactics.
A lesson to the worshippers of false idols everywhere.:D

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/uci-agrees-to-strip-armstrong-of-titles-20121022-281uc.html

[broncobrad]

Although I touched on Lances impending fall from grace in another thread Dan, I was a bit surprised no-one really wanted to add their two bobs worth. Its really not a matter of banging our chests, climbing to the top of the hill and yelling TOLD YOU SO. The sobering fact is that it just leaves you feeling gutted. The fact that the UCI chose not to take any action all the way back to 1999, when they could have, leaves you thinking why didn't they and only if they did. Through their inaction they only fostered an environment that encouraged drug taking and blood doping by those that could almost compete on their merits but chose to go down the road of cheating to reach their goal. The UCI has a lot to answer for. It happened a long time ago but sports administrators of today have been given a free tip as to how the majority of the general public feel about drugs in sport. All drug cheats are just as culpible, just as guilty as Armstrong. A case of no winners, almost everyone along the way has lost in some form or another, all the way down to the little kids who adored him. No matter what happens, Armstrong will never admit guilt, but that doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter what he thinks or says anymore.

Will there ever be a competition of any kind that will not be tainted by someone who will try to gain an unfair advantage over their fellow competitors by using performancing enhancing drugs? Not in my lifetime, thats for sure. Maybe in the future they could hold the' clean and dirty olympics', the 'clean and dirty Tour De France', the 'cleanharness races' and 'dirtyharness races' ... you know, a free for all open to all competition who can use whatever means available to win. Got a fair idea what punters would go for in the end. And everybody gets what they want in the end.

[Triple V]

Punters want to be on Lance Armstrong...while participants don't wish to be racing againt him. Therein lies the difference mate. The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly. The battle against drugs in Racing is an almost solely Participant driven vehicle.

[broncobrad]

Punters want to be on Lance Armstrong...while participants don't wish to be racing againt him. Therein lies the difference mate. The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly. The battle against drugs in Racing is an almost solely Participant driven vehicle.

Its hard to disagree with your observation about punters wanting to be on the Lance Armstrongs of the world to make a quid. Jaimie, there are plenty who would agree with you in regard to the same product being supplied week in/week out. Problem is after a while you will eventually run out of those poor suffering clapped out critters with their arses dragging along the ground while every different formulation of rocket fuel overides their brains and undermines their bodys. Atleast they could rightly revert back to being called "The Red Hots"!!!

I would prefer to think there are some punters out there with enough moral fibre though, to know the difference between right and wrong, and appreciate the fact that the horse, just the horse and only the horse is brought to the track to compete on just as equal a footing as is possible. I am certain there is an overwhelming majority of owners that care enough about their horses not to go down the road less travelled.

[Danno]

Punters want to be on Lance Armstrong...while participants don't wish to be racing againt him. Therein lies the difference mate. The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly. The battle against drugs in Racing is an almost solely Participant driven vehicle.

The punters want to be on a certainty Jamie, and preferably at good odds!

Its an unfortunate truth that the punters are gunna lose their money at the end of the day, the odds are stacked against them. 86% of funds returned to the punter!!!

And it is also a fact that people tend to respond more emotionally rather than more rationally after they done their hard earned.

So I would like to think we should not rely on the punters for their guidance on what should be done about the abuse of horses through drugs in our sport.

It is a fact that our game relies on the confidence of punters in the integrity and consisitency of the racing product, but to say /infer they want them lit up like a chritsmas tree every time they go around is just bullshit mate.

The battle against performance enhancing drugs is about creating a level playing field, not one that gives an advantage to either punters or participants so it's hard to agree that it's being driven by participants alone.

we live in the land of "a fair go", one of the most egalitarian societies in the world!

How about we accept a fair go for what it is?

[Triple V]

Not what I said at all Dan. You've completely misunderstood the intention/thrust of what I posted there.
When I wrote [The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly.]
I was alluding to the fact that by & large the Punters don't care what any given horse is racing on... or otherwise, is not racing on.
What pisses the Punters off more than anything are those inexplicable form reversals which for the purposes of Handicapping render absolutely useless published/exposed form...the old 'one week a Camel (sans assistance) next week a Gorilla (with assistance) routine.

This of course then ties directly into the wider issue of the rivers of gold which flow 24/7 to various State Government coffers by way of wagering taxation and the fact that they will protect that revenue flow AT ALL COSTS.
Thus there will ALWAYS be a much bigger, more strident, a more extensive reaction & a much heavier resultant punishment for anything which does or could potentially result in a lowering of confidence in the wagering process.
HRNSW are right in the middle of such an investigation as we all know.
If you ever doubt the overall Punter focus of Industry Administration & those further up the tree the Dept. & the State Government of the day then maybe you could explain the need for the various absurd rules we have in play these days...the Change Of Tactics rule & public announcements to that effect, the ridiculous Minimum Sectionals, Drivers not talking whilst on track etc. No doubt there are numerous others, on and on the window dressing for appearances only rules go...none of which are of any benefit whatsoever to the Participants.
What we have in place is what I have said before on this Forum is the case.
If that which serve the best interests of the Participants does not contradict the best interests of the Punters, then all's well and good...look at how we're looking after the Participants our Desk Pilot friends will bleat...BUT if that which serves the best interests of Participants directly contradicts that which serves the best interests of the Punters...guess who's interests carry the day?
Guess who gets it in the clacker with a baseball bat with a 4 inch nail punched through it and gues who gets it EVERY TIME?
Call me a cynic if you must but I wonder, can you or anyone else name even one instance where the Punt was placed as secondary consideration to the interests of Industry Participants?

I gave it a lot of thought. I can't.

[Danno]

Dear Jamie,
as usual you pick one line of a contribution and make what you can of it, ho f...ing hum. the general thrust of the original post was that Lance Armstrong, a VERY successful cheat has been thrown out of his sport/industry because the people running that sport internationally have enough evidence to say to a "legend"... "rack off we dont want anything to do with you anymore".

But I'm sorry Jamie for being so inadequate once again to completely misunderstand the intention/thrust that YOU had posted.

Did you agree or not with Lance Armstrong's expulsion from his sport?

do you agree or not that punters would like to be on a certainty at juicy odds?

do you agree or not people react emotionally rather that rationally when they have "done they're dough"?

Do you honestly, really think that the rules of our game are shaped purely to maximise government returns? Are you that mercenary/free market orientated to think there is absolutely no moral fibre whatsoever in our political system?

Our judicial system is designed to deliver fair outcomes....sometimes it gets it right sometimes it doesn't, thats life! because as clever as we are we cannot predict the future and every different situation/scenario.

It's very easy to throw crap at others for their mistakes or inadequacies, and you are very good at that.

Cheers,
Dan

[Triple V]

Dear Jamie,
as usual you pick one line of a contribution and make what you can of it, ho f...ing hum. the general thrust of the original post was that Lance Armstrong, a VERY successful cheat has been thrown out of his sport/industry because the people running that sport internationally have enough evidence to say to a "legend"... "rack off we dont want anything to do with you anymore".

But I'm sorry Jamie for being so inadequate once again to completely misunderstand the intention/thrust that YOU had posted.

Did you agree or not with Lance Armstrong's expulsion from his sport?

do you agree or not that punters would like to be on a certainty at juicy odds?

do you agree or not people react emotionally rather that rationally when they have "done they're dough"?

Do you honestly, really think that the rules of our game are shaped purely to maximise government returns? Are you that mercenary/free market orientated to think there is absolutely no moral fibre whatsoever in our political system?

Our judicial system is designed to deliver fair outcomes....sometimes it gets it right sometimes it doesn't, thats life! because as clever as we are we cannot predict the future and every different situation/scenario.

It's very easy to throw crap at others for their mistakes or inadequacies, and you are very good at that.

Cheers,
Dan

WTF????????? Go stick it in your arse Dan...sideways. Talk about a reactionary bullshit artist. Someone delete my account...I'm sick to death of this rubbish.
Admin...get rid of it now. Kick me to the kirb...please.

[mark diegutis]

[QUOTE=Triple V ]

If that which serve the best interests of the Participants does not contradict the best interests of the Punters, then all's well and good...


Hi Dan . Hi Jaimie . I think your both right in different ways . I picked out a small quote from you Jaimie which really must be commented on . Your talking about punters and participants as though they were 2 different entities . This is exactly where harness racing differs so vastly from the other 2 codes . The participants and their associates , freinds , neighbours and workmates ARE the punters . Nearly every harness racing punter has a direct connection to the industry . This is supported by the fact that TAB turnover is dropping off as participants leave . The use of these drugs etc is , certainly , making racing in our state so unballanced that more and more will be forced out . Its happening NOW . The sport is being destroyed by the greedy . Even though they offer the highest prizemoney Menangle struggle to fill fields through the week . No one wants to go there . I predict that the sales will be an absolute disaster this year and there is no sighn that our demise is even slowing down . I think that a decision made in November will have a huge impact on many participants futures in this sport .

[broncobrad]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" (Edmund Bourke)

If the USADA had taken the same course as the UCI then evil would have indeed triumphed. Some of you might think that a bit too dramatic, but what the USADA has done is highlighted the shortcomings of an administration that meekly stood back and allowed this to taint one of the greatest sporting events of all time. It unspokenly condoned cheating by standing by and doing SFA. A timely reminder for the minders of harness racing to ensure they can do all within their means to ensure the groundwork that has been layed down in the last couple of years continues to go forward.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8554896

[Greg Hando]

Noticed that the mascot for the next tour de france is Pinnochio, ha ha seems appropriate.

[broncobrad]

Yes Greg, possibly the most ironic but easily the most stupid idea for a mascot since Izzy was introduced to the world for the Atlanta Olympics...Izzy, short for Whatizit.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Mascot_Izzy.jpg

[broncobrad]

Its only been about two weeks and already Armstrong has become yesterdays news, no longer stealing the limelight from the sport of cycling. Now shrouded in a cloud of deceit and set adrift by those that admired his feats, one has to wonder, does he miss the adulation, the fans, does he miss being in the public eye. Is this how the cheats of the sporting world spend their solitary moments, enshrined in a world that never really existed, reliving the glory days of him and his best mate EPO?

Cuts a sad figure in reality, yearning for attention no matter what the cost. He might have a few mates soon that he can call and relive those days of cheating.

Boo bloody hoo ... not!

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8563065

[aussiebreno]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sport/lance-armstrong-apologises-to-staff-at-his-livestrong-cancer-foundation/story-e6frfglf-1226553992130

There is a page on facebook along the lines of "Lance Armstrong is still the man'. One reinsman who is currently warned off has 'liked' this page on facebook. Not a good look for himself, hasn't learnt any lessons from his past misdemeanours and I really hope he gets a lengthy sentence.

[mary]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sport/lance-armstrong-apologises-to-staff-at-his-livestrong-cancer-foundation/story-e6frfglf-1226553992130

There is a page on facebook along the lines of "Lance Armstrong is still the man'. One reinsman who is currently warned off has 'liked' this page on facebook. Not a good look for himself, hasn't learnt any lessons from his past misdemeanours and I really hope he gets a lengthy sentence.


I do not have facebook but his "liked" is obviously his mentalty , Dumb & Dummer !!. When you think about we have some real D--K H--DS in our game.

[broncobrad]

Can't say I've been a regular viewer of Oprah, but her upcoming interview will be compulsory viewing. She has a knack of getting her guests feeling very comfortable on her couch and shedding that outer skin. An obvious choice for Lance to 'fess up' with ... he will get the empathy factor working overtime. Just what will he admit to?

For mine, just an admission of complete and utter guilt would suffice with a whole-hearted apology to those fellow cyclists he has cheated, then watch him slither back into his hole ... never to compete again or make any further comment or public appearances. That would be good enough for me.

[Triple V]

Thought this was pretty funny.
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/tuesday-dar-37.jpg?w=499

[Danno]

Thought this was pretty funny.
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/tuesday-dar-37.jpg?w=499

well there you go, I thought this whole F....ing Opra sham was just telling us what we already know ( Lance is a drug cheat) so typical of the septics to find a way to make no news into BIG news and sell it for a tidy profit, for Fu...s sake EVERYBODY in the world KNOWS Lance has cheated big time, over and over again. BUT WAIT!!! Theres MORE!!, Triples post has enlightened us!!!!!???? when you inspect the picture, apparently Lance is a RIG!!! HA ha ha ha ha ha

[broncobrad]

Priceless Triple!! LOL

[Triple V]

well there you go, I thought this whole F....ing Opra sham was just telling us what we already know ( Lance is a drug cheat) so typical of the septics to find a way to make no news into BIG news and sell it for a tidy profit, for Fu...s sake EVERYBODY in the world KNOWS Lance has cheated big time, over and over again. BUT WAIT!!! Theres MORE!!, Triples post has enlightened us!!!!!???? when you inspect the picture, apparently Lance is a RIG!!! HA ha ha ha ha ha

[VVV] He is a Rig for sure Dan. He lost one of his Jatz to cancer a while back now.

[Danno]

[VVV] He is a Rig for sure Dan. He lost one of his Jatz to cancer a while back now.

OOPS! as much as I hate cheats, I don't hate anyone in the world enough to delilberately laugh at their misfortune or stuggles...Danno really feels like a dick head this time!

[Triple V]

You're not to know that Dan. I only know because I saw it on some Doco they once ran on ESPN. That I remember it bothers me actually.
In the hopefully long distant future, the issues experienced with Lance Armstrong's junk is not something I want to recall out of the blue whilst I'm sitting on the veranda of some Old Folks Home with a tartan rug over my knees and a cup of tea.:eek:

[Danno]

On a lighter note Jamie, I reckon a nurse on the/her knees and a small scotch will be something to look forward to rather than the cuppa and the tartan rug!!

[Triple V]

Steady Dan, my sweet thing has been away for 2 weeks in Europe on business and Big W have run out of Angora Gloves.

[mary]

Did anyone watch the interview with Oprah?.
If so any thoughts.

[aussiebreno]

Did anyone watch the interview with Oprah?.
If so any thoughts.
Not sorry, just sorry he got caught. Very arrogant and insincere.

[Triple V]

Spot on Breno. Like all of us, old mate was born with free will & he went for the $$$razoos$$$. That's fine, that's the path he chose.
I'm just disappointed for the many tens of thousands of kids who no doubt looked up to the guy as someone verging upon a real life Superman...only to have it revealed that he has had more holes punched in him than Jocky Wilson's Dart Board.
One thing's for certain. Mine is by no means a Temple but you can't mess with your body to that extreme degree & not have it exact a high price somewhere down the line. Wouldn't be at all surprised if his Cancer episode was in some way related related to whatever he was up to. If he has messed with all he is said to have been messing with over the years, I reckon he has got some health horrors ahead of him.

[Danno]

Can't say I watched all of it but my cynical side got the impression that Lance doesn't really get it.
Performing an act, it seemed to me, the only genuine sorrow from lance is that he got caught, as Brenno said.

I heard on the news some cycling/sports official described it as " a public relations exercise" and the few bits and pieces I saw gave me that impression as well.

I suppose when you are where he has been, and on your way to where he is going, you will probably clutch at straws ( thanks Brenno).

The whole affair simply underlines to me that if you are performing way beyond what has been humanly possible in the past, there may be some unearthed factors involved. And I would not wish ill will an anybody, but Lance needs to lose here as he has significant ill gained financial benefits from cheating others out of what should have been theirs, it's a type of theft which, when caught a person should suffer consequences for several reasons, not least of which to discourage copy cats.

Cheers,
Dan

[Triple V]

You're right Dan, he comes across as though he still doesn't get it. Seems like he has rationalised it all to himself so many times over the years that he has effectively self-brainwashed.
The other thing to remember is there's no question a whole lot of other people directly and indirectly connected to him/in his overall support structure also made a whole of lot of $$$ along the way. He is in reality the point man of what was/is a mini Corporation. The Management, Personal Trainers, Doctors & assorted hangers would've all gotten their whack. Like the Victor Conte/Patrick Arnold/BALCO crew that created/sold THG and were behind Barry Bonds, Marrion Jones etc. It's all about the $$$razoos$$$.

[aussiebreno]

I do feel a tad bit sorry for Lance, in only that he is copping everything for not only his own but his teams doings. But he guess he got all the glory as well.

VVV, a status on facebook was put up last night in support of Lance. Old mate tried comparing Lances EPO use to that of AFL/NRL footballers getting locals. I've been restraining myself from commenting ever since.