Rocknroll Hanover vs Rocknroll Heaven

[mango]

Putting the service fee difference aside who would you be most likely to send a mare to and why.

[justdoit]

Hi Mango,
Our younger broodmares to RRHanover, proven sire, he will be popular for years to come with the type of mares he has breed..........Fingers crossed
Young broodmares should have the best you can afford.

Mares that have produced winners to RRHeaven, I would be willing to breed to him in his first season at stud and then wait until his 4th season. aha that is in the one hemisphere:)
Unproven sire technique.

[Fullerton]

Price aside Heaven more versatile faster and a better race horse than his dad . I got turned away with 2 of my three to send to him here in America.In my opinion he is going to be a great sire . I heard he got most of the top mares here. Maybe J Bellino can tell more about what mares went to him.

[buster]

i think price is the biggest factor, even if the dad is better is it 13-4k better?

[Fullerton]

Buster don't get me wrong I couldn't send 3 mares to RnR Hanover at 25g a piece. Then on top not be sure how Jersey is. I wanted to get in on Heaven now before he goes up to 20-25. The question was fee difference aside . I thought Heaven was cheap at 12g.

[mightymo]

i think price is the biggest factor, even if the dad is better is it 13-4k better?

Next year I reckon both will be standing in the flesh in Aust

Heaven - $9000 + GST

Hanover 12000/13000 + GST

does that change opinions?

[nat]

Is Hanover standing now for $15,000 in the US or is that a type o error?

[Fullerton]

RnR Hanover is 25g. I think just my opinion 18 20 down under.But if mightymo is right Heaven is still my choice he did things this year I never saw a horse do The Jug & Breeders Crown.

[mango]

Hi Mightymo
Your correct, whats your opinion on both horses who would you go to and why.

Nat
Rocknroll Hanover is standing for $25,000 US

[nat]

Look on this link

http://stars.ustrotting.com/stallion.cfm?stallion_id=62

[buster]

i think 9 is a bit dear for a first year stallion despite any hype, rather the 12k for his father

(but if these 2 do come down under they should push the service fee of bettors delight mach three art major down as you've pretty much doubled the amount of good quality stallions available)

[BenScadden]

If RnR Hanover ends up down here next season, my Artsplace mare might be retiring earlier than we'd anticipated ...

[mango]

RnR Hanover over Artsplace mare's 75 foals for 46 winners.

[buster]

isnt artsplace now considered the star broodmare sire?

i think theres a few more wins in your mare yet

[justdoit]

Next year I reckon both will be standing in the flesh in Aust

Heaven - $9000 + GST

Hanover 12000/13000 + GST

does that change opinions?



Hi Mightymo,
Breed to both at these prices, No gst. I am open to the possibility of having to race/lease the offspring if good returns do not come my way.

[trotpace]

If RnR Hanover ends up down here next season, my Artsplace mare might be retiring earlier than we'd anticipated ...

I don't think he will ever leave the USA.

[trotpace]

Look on this link

http://stars.ustrotting.com/stallion.cfm?stallion_id=62

The USTA doesn't do a good job with keeping the stallion site up to date.

[Fullerton]

trotpace you are correct bad job on the USTA. RNR Hanover 25 g. Thanks trotpace.

[trotpace]

14

[trotpace]

http://perretti.com/cms/

Still have the 2010 price up!

You would think at this time of the year everyone would have their stud prices updated...

[Fullerton]

Yeah my friend went to him this year with his mare and it is 25g.

[mango]

Hey Trotpace
There's more than a good chance that he will be in Australia for the breeding season which starts in october.

[trotpace]

I'll believe it when i see it.

[mango]

Hi Trotpace
Fair enough, now putting service fee difference aside who would you send a mare to and why.

[trotpace]

Its a hard call who I would breed to. I think Rocknroll Hanover is a much better looking horse and has a better marketing appeal.

But i really like that Rocknroll Heavan has ARTSPLACE blood in him.

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

Ok, I'll throw a Cat into the Pigeon Loft and state that I think Rock N Roll Heaven was a better racehorse than his sire was.
I say this because I didn't much care for the way Rocknroll Hanover raced with an 'on track assistance crew' made up of Village Jolt & Cam's Fool.
For me it raised a great many comparisons and so, some rather unpleasant memories of Lou Guida, of Nihilator and of 'The Entry'. (cue dramatic sting music http://www.soundsnap.com/node/93939 indicating dastardly deeds are afoot).
On the other hand, at least the way I see it, Rock N Roll Heaven went out and did it all on his own and I admired that very much.
His seemingly effortless back to back 49's to take The Jug will live with me for quite some time.

[mango]

Rocknroll Hanover produces a winner in the 3yr old fillies race today at Ashbuton.

[triplev123]

Nice one. Jack will be pleased. Let me guess...bred by Uncle Bob?

[mango]

Correct weight on that Triplev

[Love Of Courage]

Great Thread this one. I think both of them are outstanding and well worth sending mares to.

Stud fee is all important as to which you would be selecting for your mare.

For me in Australia chilled semen or frozen is an important issue.
Heaven on the slightly smaller size.( What size is Hanover ?? guessing taller )
Hanover has a great pedigree. Heaven with Artsplace and good dam equally good.
Hanover faster at two. Heaven faster at three.
Hanover proven. Heaven Unproven.
Hanover slightly higher earning per start. Heaven not far behind.
Hardly a split match between them so stud fee and chilled or frozen semen a major factor.
I think heaven was a slighly better racehorse especially with his sub 1.50 times. As most buyers seem to want larger foals Hanover being taller evens the scales again.

Mightymo
Heaven - $9000 + GST

Hanover 12000/13000 + GST

does that change opinions?

How I wish this was going to happen. Willing to bet a dollar or two with mightymo that this is not going to happen.

Bye

[mango]

Hi Love Of Courage
If mightymo doesn't take your bet i will. And if they do come would you be sending hte 3 mare's who's progeny you had in the Brisbane a.p.g sale.

What do people think if these 2 sire's land here this year will horses like Mach 3 and Christian Cullen have to come down in price to stay competitive. And has anyone else heard C-C might be on the move.

[buster]

i think all stallions should be pushed down 1-2k, the HP future isnt going to exactly be inflationary on the breeding industry for a few years yet

[mango]

Hi Buster
I think 1-2k would be good and i also think C-C and M3 might have to drop 4-5 if they are to get numbers.

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Mango,

Okay I'll take you up on the bet, tell me what you are willing to bet. Just to make sure you cannot wriggle out under a technicality( Just poking fun ), I see 3 points of contention.
Mightymo comment :
Next year I reckon both will be standing in the flesh in Aust

Heaven - $9000 + GST

Hanover 12000/13000 + GST

does that change opinions?

Both in the flesh in Australia ( Heaven Yes - Hanover cant see it ) Neveler stud you would think they would want him in NZ.
Service fees $ 9000 + gst Heaven plausible maybe a little high.
Hanover $ 12,000 - $ 13,000 unlikely huge drop from AU $ 22,500 + gst for frozen semen.

Difference of only $3 - 4 K between the two. Cant see it being this close. Would image for the extra 3 - 4 k Hanover would get the most mares.

I will not sell yearlings in Brisbane again. Have been informed by several high profile buyers ( Respected Opinions ) that frequently buy numerous yearlings and pay up to $ 150,000 that I would have got better prices interstate.

Will consider 2 of the 3 mares. Have 2 others that I like that I would consider. I do not expect to make a fotune from the sales, however would at least like the service fee plus a little extra to cover costs. It helps by using very good stallions as the chances of a better racehorse is increased.

[mango]

Hi Love Of Courage
I'd love to bet you but i couldn't take your money lol. If he does come out Mightymo is on the mark with he's service fee and i also heard that from the person who will be standing him, he will be standing in Victoria and Nevele r stud will be somehow involved so i hear.

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Mango,

Buck Buck Buck Chicken (lol )
If you want it does not need to be a big bet just a poultry sum will do (Paltry) bad chicken joke.Groan !

[mango]

$100

[buster]

i read it was warwick stud getting rock n roll

[mango]

Go to harnesslinks home page click on Archive and then click on the 14th feb, scroll down untill you find a heading Perretti Farms (Rags to Riches) and all the way down the bottom you will find it.

[buster]

going on the US fees i think he will stand for 8800

[mango]

Rocknroll Heaven is $12,000 over there and will be around $9,000 +gst
Rocknroll Hanover is now the dearest over there at $25,000 and Mightymo was on the mark so what i've been told $12,000-$13,000 +gst

[buster]

and no downward flexibility in the service fees of other stallions, too scared of a price war despite minimal menu costs

[mango]

I do think he should be at least on equal terms with Art Major and Bettor's Delight, so it will be interesting to see if C-C and M3 stay the price they are now ?

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Mango,

You got me on that one. Stopped reading when I saw the videos and missed that last part.Bet of $ 100 still stands if you are up for it. I would happily pay as I hope its true.

I had 3 attempts with 1 mare to get in foal to Rock N Roll Hanover in NZ but mare did not get in foal.
I had 2 attempts with another mare to Rock N Roll Hanover in NZ again in the same year, and mare did not get in foal. As a last minute change of plans she was switched to Artsplace and the mare got in foal and I now have a yearling colt.

Read from another article that "The reason they raised the stud fee on Rocknroll Hanover to $25,000 in the US was to cut the book so they would have less to sell less on the market. That way they thought that they would get more money for them"

This is what leads me to believe that the stud fee will not be as low.

[mango]

Hi Love Of Courage
I can't take your money, so lets just call it a bragging rights bet. I know a few people who have got there mare's in foal to Rocknroll Hanover not a problem and one of them being Changerr the dam of Changover she has a yearling filly by him and the mare has been served again by him. And yes less served more money at the sale's and thats why he will come down here because they are aware he could easily serve 300 in the southern hemisphere and they can clean up again.

[mightymo]

Ive missed all this - how much is the bet?? :):)

[mango]

Hey Mightymo
Love Of Courage was going to bet you that Rocknroll Hanover wouldn't come out and i said if you don't take the bet i would. Then i informed her to read the Perritti farm link under archives on harnesslink 14 feb.

[mightymo]

being a betting person, i would be very happy to accommodate LOC :):)

[triplev123]

It's all well & good that such a fine horse goes to Warwick Stud & I'm thrilled he is standing in Oz rather than NZ...however Luke's now verging upon legendary aversion to answering phones/returning calls is going to make it freaking difficult to secure a booking. You may well end up having to drive down there & front up in person. Even then he's probably no good thing to answer the doorbell. :p:p:p:p

[Fullerton]

Who is the better farm to deal with Warwick Stud or Pepper Tree?

[justdoit]

Hi Fullerton,
Pepper Tree are better to deal with.IMO
Do Warwick Stud have anyone there that knows what they are doing?-re stallion management?

[Fullerton]

Thanks Just, well that also maybe considered when choosing between the two.

[triplev123]

Who is the better farm to deal with Warwick Stud or Pepper Tree?

Can I take the 5th on that? :p

[Fullerton]

Come on triplev123 no taking the 5th here.LoL

[justdoit]

Cowards Castle:)

[buster]

who is he married to that got him rock n roll hanover

[mango]

If Warwick Farm are to be successfull in standing RNH they will need to make sure there management and there team are more than up to scratch. RNH could easily serve 300 in Aus/N.Z so there's going to be a lot of semen transport, bookings, general enquire's. At present they stand 3 stallions who would of got around 200 mare's between them so this will be a step up. I'm sure they've looked into all this before they wen't ahead with it, so i hope all works out good for them.

Peppertree Farm will be busy next year with there stallions as this past season they served a combined 470+ mare's and later this year with the arrival of Rocknroll heaven they could shoot to the 700 mark and with things looking healthier in n.s.w that could even be more.

Hi Buster
what do you mean by your last post.

[ten4foru]

Warwick stud is better to deal with.In all my dealings with luke at warwick stud it has been first class and he always anwsers his phone and if he doesnt he will ring back within 5 minutes. i am pretty sure he and his team know what they is doing. I have never had any trouble with them getting my mares in foal every year. Iam sure if you send your mares they will be looked after first class.

[buster]

mango - as in how on earth did they go from having OSV, P47, and red river.....to the best stallion in the world

[nat]

Hi Buster

The same way Pepper Tree did hard graft but in all seriousness some of the big studs would have to much on their plate to handle this horse or they would have to get rid of some stallions. I think the hardest part would be constantly answering the phone saying sorry we are fully booked and packing cooler boxes.

Would had though if anything the good stallions will head to NSW with the current speculation on the racing future

[Gtrain]

I have never dealt with PTF but have had nothing but positive experiences with Warwick and Luke. I have bought horses off them and had them serve my mares. I am extremely excited to see a horse of this calibre come to Australia and Victoria. I am only hoping I can get a discounted service fee for the slow horses they have sold me :)

[justdoit]

Warwick Stud would be using GVEH?
The stallion will be in very capable hands if this is so.
L&G Ward set up a nice property, they should have good surroundings for stallions to live in.IMO

Hanover Shoe Farms, has the AU dollar finally won them over?

[mango]

Why Hanover farms ?

[Fullerton]

First let me say I think this is a very informative thread. But here is what it sounds like most are saying let's just say the farms are equal,it seems that what it might come down to between RnR Heaven and RnR Hanover is what price they are set at. Do you agree?

[triplev123]

Warwick Stud used to belong to the late Stan Walker. Graham & Lynne Ward's place was called Lynrose Stud.

[mango]

Hi Fullerton
I think the price difference might only be $3k at most, where as there price difference over your way is $13k. There's a few different way's in looking at this RN Hanover has proven himself at stud already and is going great guns and my personal opinion is that RN Heaven was the better racehorse. RN hanover is a 15.3h horse and if i remember correctly Mr Bellino said RN Heaven is 15.3/4h so size difference will come into play. The good thing is they will be able to cover a whole different variety of mare's. So looking at that i can't pick so i intend on sending a mare to each of these stallions.

[Fullerton]

Thats a good way of doing it. Does anyone know if either of the RnR 's will give those discounts that were mentioned. Also how do they work? Thanks guys I am learning a bunch about your breeding industry.

[mango]

Don't know how much discount will be on them, but some studs give you 10% for 2 mare's 15% for 3 mare's and 20% for 5 mare's. Peppertree only have a max of 15% and some horses like Art Major only have a max of 10% for 2 mare's or 10 mare's.

[justdoit]

I wrote this crap below. Sorry, i will put it down to lack of sleep.


Warwick Stud would be using GVEH?
The stallion will be in very capable hands if this is so.
L&G Ward set up a nice property, they should have good surroundings for stallions to live in.IMO

Hanover Shoe Farms, has the AU dollar finally won them over?

[justdoit]

I still have both farms mixed up:(
P47 stood at Warwick stud?
Where is Lynrose stud located exactly?

[triplev123]

Yep, P47 stood/stands at Warwick Stud along with other lunimaries such as Rustler Hanover & Red River Hanover. OSV stands there now too and he's been a reasonable success, certainly far & away the best of them there to date. Haven't been there in years but I went there when Stan had it, Warwick Stud was a beautiful place. Always remember the huge Poplar Trees & how well maintained the place was. The first time I ever went there Stan was wandering around the place catching chickens by way of grabbing their legs with a long piece of wire that he'd fashioned into a hook. A lovely fella. Wardy's place, Lynrose, was at Katunga. Went there a few times over the years. Graham's a really good bloke too. Always remember how well Wardy's mares & foals looked. They were all so well cared for & shiney, like a paddock full of toffee apples.

[mango]

Is Rocknroll Heaven a sure thing to be standing at Peppertree farm ?

[buster]

Is Rocknroll Heaven a sure thing to be standing at Peppertree farm ?
yes


and another point, is somebeachsomewhere the most over priced stallion in the world? and in so much it will badly effect his chances of making it as a stallion

[mango]

There's a whisper that Alabar are waiting in the wing's just incase.

[triplev123]

G'day Buster,

I doubt it very, very much. Somebeachsomewhere is priced right where he should be for one of the greatest racehorses, arguably the greatest racehorse, to have ever set foot on a race track. He was transgenerational. Given his incredible ability, plus the depth of both racing and producing quality to be found in the books of mares that he has covered in NA (x 2) and will again cover this NA season (his 3rd book I believe), if his initial crops to the track do not sweep all before them...then I promise you right here & now in front of all who read this list that I will drop my pants in the middle of Pitt Street Mall in Sydney at lunchtime on a Friday and sing "Hey Big Spender" by Shirley Bassey. If there is such a thing as a raging good thing as far as sires go, Somebeachsomewhere is a raging good thing.

[mango]

Hi Triplev123
I do hope you never lose one of these bets as i'd have to take a drive to sydney to watch you drop your pants and sing now that would be funny lol.

[triplev123]

Just for you Mango. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92luoiRJBVU

;)

[mango]

I'd like to see you in that dress lol, if it ever happens you could be a youtube hit.

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

I reckon Shirley and G. Bennett were seperated at birth.
Just pause for a moment and imagine Greg with a black wig and a snazzy silver Lame' dress and ...whammy, you've got Shriley Bassey. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[mango]

Hey Triplev123
I went back and read some of the posts and i read that you liked the way heaven raced better and went 49.2 in the jug and i agree that was a supper effort. Now knowing RN Hanover is already showing his wait in gold in the breeding barn and is 15.3h and RN Heaven will be a 1st season sire who is 15.3/4h and there will be a difference in there service fee. If you were breeding for the yearling sale's out of a young well bred mare who would you be sending her to and why.

[justdoit]

Thanks TripleV123,
I had the farms mixed up, the Warwick stud is the farm I was refering to. Beautiful surroundings for a couple of stallions.

Hi Mango, You want to drive to see a bloke drop his pants? Hmmmmmmmmm:)

[mango]

Na but i would drive down there if he was to wear the same dress Shirley Bassey wore whilst singing Hey Big Spender that would be a classic. And if you new Triplev123 you would understand. It would be a youtube hit.

[triplev123]

Hey Triplev123
I went back and read some of the posts and i read that you liked the way heaven raced better and went 49.2 in the jug and i agree that was a supper effort. Now knowing RN Hanover is already showing his wait in gold in the breeding barn and is 15.3h and RN Heaven will be a 1st season sire who is 15.3/4h and there will be a difference in there service fee. If you were breeding for the yearling sale's out of a young well bred mare who would you be sending her to and why.

Geeze thanks Mango. Put me on the spot why don't you?
First off, I'm probably the worst person you could ask this question of as I'm just not a Rocknroll Hanover fan, though many may well see that as verging on Heretic thinking.
I do however really like Rock N Roll Heaven and I like his grandsire Western Ideal as well as his late sire, Western Hanover (I've got a lovely water colour of him here on the wall in my office) and in turn his sire No Nukes. Go back a step & there's old mate Oil Burner. Never liked him. Nasty bastard.
I'm not a Mach Three fan either but how could you go past Somebeachsomewhere, what a great horse. I liked Mach Three's sire Matt's Scooter but never cared for his sire Direct Scooter. Call me fickle. :p

While I think of it, I just don't buy either of those size assessments nor for that matter do I believe any of the others that I read or am told.
Somehow, magically....they're ALL 15.3h !!!!!!!!
The reason I say that is IMO there's 15.3 and there's 15.3.
For example, two very prominent sires here in the Southern Hemisphere are listed in their advertising as being 15.3... yet to my eye they're about as alike size wise as Courage Under Fire and Melpark Major.
Forget about what the ad. blurb says Mango. Go have a look at both of them & make up your own mind what size they are.

Ok, so I've dicked about and have danced around answering your question long enough.
Hand on Heart, God's honest truth, I'd go with Rock N Roll Heaven. He was the real deal & then some & I just can't see him missing either in NY State or more to the point, here in NSW.

[mango]

Well let's just hope they both come out so i get the chance to take a good look and make my mind up.

[Love Of Courage]

Somebeachsomewhere is the King !

If you had to have your last dollar on any horse in the last 10 years it would have to be him. Equal fastest pacer of all time at 3, leading all the way.

Had a lovely filly by him but lost her in a paddock accident. A beautiful big stong filly, the best that I have bred. The mare is only small, however Somebeachsomewhere put plenty of size into the foal.

Have another mare in foal to him this year. Will definately be going back to him again.

[mango]

Hi Love Of Courage
Sorry to hear about the death of your filly, what did you end up doing with your yearling's.

[triplev123]

Somebeachsomewhere is the King !

If you had to have your last dollar on any horse in the last 10 years it would have to be him. Equal fastest pacer of all time at 3, leading all the way.

Had a lovely filly by him but lost her in a paddock accident. A beautiful big stong filly, the best that I have bred. The mare is only small, however Somebeachsomewhere put plenty of size into the foal.

Have another mare in foal to him this year. Will definately be going back to him again.

Geeze, how bloody horrible LOC. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Terrible stuff. :(

[Love Of Courage]

15Hello & thank you for your kind thoughts This was my Somebeachsomewhere filly. She fractured her leg in a paddock accident.Plates were inserted and things were going very well until infection set in and I lost her.

Mango I still have 2 of my 3 yearlings for sale from the Brisbane Auction. I have a nice Artsplace yearling colt closely related to Ransom Olds that I will be bringing over from NZ.

Enjoy the posts from you guys it is very informative.

Regards,

Sue

[justdoit]

Hi Sue,
Always sad to hear of these things happening.
A few week ago I was reading another forum and one fellow that had been breeding for 20 years had lost 2 foals in just acouple of days.
It was the first time he had ever lost a foal and he was terribly upset about it. I felt very sorry for him, but it could have just been his turn after 20 years of good luck.
I'm hoping for 20 years of his kind of luck:)

Given the right mare I would breed to Mach Three, Somebeachsomewhere no one should disagree on this horse.
TripleV123, how many breeders actually take a drive to look first hand at the stallion they are breeding to?

[triplev123]

G'day justdoit,

This is a significantly nicer subject than arguing the toss with Buster. Thanks.
I reckon nowhere near as many people go for a drive to have a look as should do and I can't talk because I've most certainly been guilty of not doing so too. :(
Interestingly, the last couple of crops that we've bred have come from sires where the circumstances at the time conspired to allow either myself or all of us to have a really good look at and I think on type they're two of the best overall groups we've put on the ground. :)
Most seasons you will get 1 or maybe 2 that, in terms of a comparison ot the rest of your foals, you would probably give back if given the chance...but not last year nor this time around. I'd like to think that's more than just coincidence but who knows? Maybe it was just arse. :confused:
I think the 'not laying eyes on the sire' aspect is an inherent & significant drawback with semen transport. It's just so easy to roll up and order like you were going through a McDonald's drive through. I don't have a clean slate in that regard either...and in similar moments of reflection I doubt there is a semen transport reliant breeder anywhere in the entire country who could hand on heart say that they've stood beside every single sire they've ever bred a mare to and gone over him with a fine toothed comb.
For example, we bred a mare to Bettor's Delight via frozen semen very, very early on in the piece on the basis of applying what I was told about the horse via phone call to his trainer Scott McEneny. He told me the type of mare he thought we should put to BD and said if we did that...quote "The horse will do the rest". That foal turned out really good & he's now over in the US being prepped for the $200,000 George Morton Levy at Yonkers in March and they think they're a real chance of getting the $. Maybe I got it right, maybe we were just lucky. I don't know.
I think that whole thing was THE major problem that plagued frozen semen in the early days. I think it's quite possible that alot of well meaning breeders went with a large % of unsuitable sire/mare combinations on the basis that they'd not seen the sire/s? I had a go with Astreos over a Torado Hanover mare on that basis...no good on type and never made the track, and again... guilty as charged. :(
Fast forwarding and though I'm not a particularly big fan of the Trotters, I think that Muscle Hill was the ants pants. My brother has a piece of a Trotting mare and I guess one day she'll be bred to a horse like that though her trainer is not surprisingly a big fan of his sire, Muscles Yankee. She's a nice looking mare, very good gaited etc. but does she suit either of them on type? I've not got the faintest idea. History seeks to repeats itself? :p

[buster]

the gallops blokes would love this, very big on type

imo type is very important because of smaller tracks/training tracks and alot of big money in early life means they've got to be well enough put together to run early- too expensive waiting for a horse to grow into itself

triple v - aestros and torado hanover also duds as stallions? maybe the type of the horse is just an excuse? (but without seeing the horse your talking about obviously), just as every time you see a small horse thats no good its excuse is its size - more likely is its excuse is it has no motor or will to test the pain barrier

[triplev123]

Dunno Buster. You've got all the answers. You tell me.
Incidentally, Astreos was a major disappointment but Torado Hanover was not a dud as a sire, quite the opposite in fact. Given the opportunities he got he was quite outstanding. Sinbad Bay, Jane Ellen, My Cherie, Albuquerque, Harley Hanover etc (the winners of over $17mil). His daughters have left Safari, Adams Mate, Atomic Ark, Northern Brewer, Deanna Troy, Arkamigo, Daman, Hilton Fly High etc (winners of some $21.4mil & counting). That's hardly the work of a dud.

[buster]

hes a dud

[triplev123]

Ahuh. Buster, are you a member of The Flat Earth Society by any chance?

[buster]

"Today is a big day in America. Only 36,000 people lost their jobs today." —Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid.

explains alot about you if you follow that adage

[triplev123]

It is taken from the 10 dumbest political statements of 2010 Buster. Try not to be complete dunce for your entire life.

[mango]

Back to the horses boy's or lay the bet and get on with it.

[triplev123]

Ok Dad. :p
Makers Mark, a case (6) is $267.25 at Dan Murphy's.
Are you in or out Buster?

[Fullerton]

I think we got off subject here .

[mango]

Hi Fullerton
Now that Rocknroll Hanover has gone up in price will he still get a full book over there and just out of interest how do the Well Said foals look, I noticed he was fully booked way before the year kicked off. I see the sign up for Heaven as fully booked but as i can gather he was fully booked a while ago as i think in one of your previous posts on another thread you wanted to send 3 mare's to him but could only get 1 mare in.

[Fullerton]

I only got one of my mares in because there was such a long list they only picked the cream of the crop, I'm not offended but would have liked to get one more to him. As far as Hanover my opinion is they raised his price to reduce his book ,with all the RnR hanovers in the sales it was watering down the stock as a result the sales of his babies suffered also the Medowlands situation will hurt. My question is will the price of Hanover being much lower down under hurt him in the U.S? Have not been able to see and of the Well Said babies.

[mango]

Hi Fullerton

I don't see his price being lower down here hurting him in any way. He has had only 2 crops to race in the U.S and has produced some great horses so the demand for his stock will be great. The other way to look at it if you have a couple of nice mare's you could send them to Heaven and get 2 (Heaven) for the price of 1(Hanover).

[Fullerton]

Well I wanted to go to Heven with all my mares but I could not get them in. I just think this horse is going to be something real special in the breeding shed. I have been around racing for a long long time and this horse is just different.

[mango]

Hi Fullerton

Thats a shame that you couldn't get a few more mare's into him and as a guess i'd say there are alot of other people that missed out due to Heaven been so popular. I hope the mare you got in foal throws a champion for you. Have you pre booked for next year.

[Fullerton]

I have pre booked my one mare . I think she will be in cycle soon as she was not in foal last year due to a late foal previously. It stinks only letting 140 breedings. But it's probably good for the sport. Thanks Mango for the support.

[mango]

Hi Fullerton

With breeding only 140 mare's that means there will be only 100-110 live foals on the ground which doesn't seem like a great deal for a stallion each year. But the other way to look at it if you have 1 of those live foals it could be worth a few $$$ at the sale's.

[BenScadden]

I've seen RnR Hanover ... he's a huge, hulking horse ...

I think he'll work pretty well over my Artsplace mare (apart from the obvious success of that cross). She's medium-sized, very good-gaited and correct. It wouldn't hurt to add a bit of width and bulk to her foals.

It'll be interesting to see his fee when/if he heads down here.

[mango]

Hey Ben

You have a nice mare to send to him and that cross has been gold in the states and it will be ineteresting what his fee will be. 2 other horses to put size into there progeny that i have seen are Western Ideal and Somebeachsomewhere.

[Bonnie]

We have 2 colt foals by RnR Hanover out of Artsplace mares. Both are outstanding types , correct , and have a fair bit of size about them.

[mango]

Rocknroll Heaven 2010

3yr old colt/gelding of the year
Pacer of the year
Horse of the year

Was there any doubt.

[justdoit]

Congratulations to the owners, you are living my dream:)

[mango]

I'd say there living everyone's dream

[mango]

Has anyone heard anymore about these 2 great horses comming out and what service they will attract. My guess is as follows.

Heaven $10,000

Hanover $12,000

[mango]

News has gone quite has anyone heard anything on RN Hanover comming or have they hit a snag.

[triplev123]

There's a fair bit of Cat & Mouse stuff going on Mango.

Believe the respective fees are...
Rocknroll Hanover $13,200 incl. GST
Rock N Roll Heaven $11,000 incl. GST

[mango]

Interesting i thought they might of been at least a $1000 below them prices but i suppose the budget will get stretched again.

[triplev123]

Pepper Tree set to Rock N Roll

Heaven sent news for breeders

Thursday 17 March 2011



The Dan Patch Horse of the Year Award has an “Aussie” feel to it as Pepper Tree Farm announces details of Rock N Roll Heaven’s arrival in 2011.

Australians mightn’t have won the principal Oscars at this year’s Academy Awards ceremony in Los Angeles on February 27, but the U.S. Harness Writers Association awards, presented the same evening in Florida, proved a triumph for Cowra –based Pepper Tree Farm, the future home of Rock N Roll Heaven.

Late last year Rock N Roll Heaven had been named best male 3YO pacer by the harness writers, but in the voting for the major awards- the Best Film Oscar equivalents- at last month’s banquet, he received 127 of a possible 131 votes to become Pacer of the Year, and 123 votes to become the Dan Patch U.S. Horse of the Year.

While those wins were widely anticipated, they were nevertheless hugely satisfying for Pepper Tree Farm’s Rob and Julie Van Dyke, who were following the USTA website much more closely than the millions watching television coverage of those “other” awards.

Just prior to last year’s Little Brown Jug, Pepper Tree Farm had reached agreement with connections for the Southern Hemisphere stud rights for the star colt which, after winning the famous race in world record time, would go on to complete a ten-race win streak through to season’s end at the Breeders Crown.

“We have been following the career of this great horse for some time and are thrilled for his owners, Mr Frank Bellino and his son Joe, that he has added the prestigious Little Brown Jug to his impressive list of career wins,” said Rob Van Dyke at the time.

“His wins today showed his outstanding speed and toughness and we are truly excited that Rock N Roll Heaven will stand at Pepper Tree Farm next season.”

Following February’s award, that level of excitement would more likely be described as “justifiably” or “tremendously”. How about “unbelievably”?

Some details of Rock N Roll Heaven’s racing career will quickly dispel any charges that the writer is guilty of exaggerated praise.

He was a classy two-year-old, never unplaced in nine starts, winning the New Jersey Sires Final and the Bluegrass Stakes, and setting a world record 1:50.6 on a five-eighth track. He was runner-up in the Governors Cup and the $1 million Metro Pace (in 1:49.4) behind Sportswriter, whom he will join at Pepper Tree come September.

His three-year-old season was something else again. He won 16 of 21 starts, for $2.15 million, including the Jug, the Tattersalls Stakes, the Battle of Brandywine, the Messenger Stakes and, finally and fittingly, the Breeders Crown.

Bruce McAvaney, an old hand at the trots, would have described the Little Brown Jug victory as “special”.

In his elimination, he raced in the death for the first half of the race before forging to the lead and running away untouched in 1:49.4, which set a new Jug record and equalled the world 3YO half-mile record set two years previously by Somebeachsomewhere , which also became Horse-of-the-Year.

In the final, less than two hours later, he led most of the way to win by lengths, matching his elimination time for a record two-heat time of 3:38.8, lowering Shadow Play’s record set in the 2008 Jug.

Rock N Roll Heaven achieved more sub-1:50 wins in 2010 than any horse in history, and more sub-1:50 miles in a season- 17 of his 21 race starts- than any horse before him.

The list of those with 10 or better in a season includes Lis Mara, Won The West, Boulder Creek, Riyadh, Jenna’s Beach Boy and Somebeachsomewhere, the only other three-year-old. It’s a select group.

Extreme speed is an essential requirement for the kind of greatness achieved by this horse. In the Breeders Crown Final, he hit the three-quarter marker in 1:19.4, on the way to a “soft” 1:49 win, and his career record is 1:47.6 at the Meadowlands. But it’s matched by true toughness, says his trainer Bruce Saunders.

“I think his toughness and competitiveness is what separated him from a lot of the horses he’s raced against.

“He’s had a couple of races where they really wanted to battle with him.

“He’s happy to hook somebody and fight tooth and nail, that’s his toughness. I’ve worn out the word tenacious but that’s what it is, he’s a fighter.”

A good example of this was his win in the Bluegrass Stakes. After doing a lot of work early, he seemed vulnerable when arch-rival Razzle Dazzle ranged up to him, but sensing the other horse there and then spotting it, he picked up the bit again and kicked away.

Rock N Roll Heaven is a son of Rocknroll Hanover (by Western Ideal from broodmare gem Rich N Elegant), the 2005 U.S. 3YO and overall Horse-of-the-Year, which is currently rewriting the siring records in the U.S. with his first two crops.

His dam Artistic Vision, which took a 1:50.2 race record in winning over $600,000 (she’s the dam also of Clear vision 1:49.6) is an Artsplace sister to millionaire Armbro Animate. His fourth dam TMI is a full-sister to No Nukes, which is the grandsire of Western Ideal.

The evolution of sires in this branch of the Western Hanover sireline is very rapid, much in the mould of modern thoroughbreds. From 1993 when Western Hanover first stood at stud, we’ve moved on to Western Ideal, Rocknroll Hanover and now Rock N Roll Heaven in 2011, four generations in just 18 years.

Rock N Roll Heaven is currently standing his first season at Blue Chip Farms to a full book, and the exceptional fertility level indicated by the requisite testing has been confirmed so far, with his first mares tested pronounced in foal, at an early stage of the season.

When he shuttles to Pepper Tree in September this year, it will be the first time a current U.S. Horse of the Year has arrived here for stud duties.

That’s an exciting prospect for not only Pepper Tree Farm, but for the breeding industry in this country.

Pepper Tree Farm has announced that the service fee for Rock N Roll Heaven has been set at $11,000 including GST, with 10% discount for two mares and 15% for three or more mares.

There is no doubt that this is a major coup for Australia, which is certain to be reflected in outstanding support from breeders right round the country.

By the way, the real hero in this year’s Best Film, Lionel Logue, was an Aussie!









Harness Racing NSW (HRNSW) is the controlling body for harness racing in New South Wales with responsibility for commercial and regulatory management of the industry including 31 racing clubs across the State. HRNSW is headed by an industry-appointed Board of Directors and is independent of Government.

To arrange an interview or for further information please contact:
Name:
Dale Walker
Position:
Marketing Manager
Phone:
(02) 9722 6600
Email:
dwalker@hrnsw.com.au (dwalker@hrnsw.com.au)

[mango]

Yeah read that it's in the breeding section of today's trotguide, now we will just have to wait to see what they do put out about RN Hanover. When reading about Heaven you can't find a fault anywhere, great race horse out of a good race mare who has thrown 2 for 2, hopefully Mr Bellino can make it 3 for 3 with his Bettor's filly.

[buster]

oh yeah a real 'heaven for breeders' at 11k for a first season stallion, they are out of this world for that much money..better hope you dont get a filly paying that

ps - nice of hrnsw to give pepper tree some free advertising - do they do stories on all the new stallion this year?

[mango]

Hi Buster

Speaking with a couple of mate's who were interested in going to him said 1st season should only be about $8800 and then when he proves then go up as Art Major, M3 and others have. There worry with spending that sought of money is the horse himself isn't overly big so if your looking to sell and you get a small bay filly you won't even get your service fee back and due to his size there's a fair chance of that happening. My personal opinion is i might send one there and hope for the best but i'll have to pick the right mare on breeding and size to help my chances.

[Love Of Courage]

Hello All,

I would have to agree with what Mango has just said. I would have thought that $ 8,800 would have been around the mark. I think that $ 10,000 + gst is a little high, especially for a smaller size 1st season sire. Be interesting to see what happens now with Rock N Roll Hanover.

[nat]

Yes definitely Mango

He is all of the above as a racehorse but and a big but unproven at this stage even Art Major came here with big wraps but started out around the average price for good stallions he didn't start on top dollar he worked his way up and even now as a premier stallion not all of his stock sold that well at the sales. I'm afraid this is a straight out cash grab of good promos and sparkling lights for me

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Nat,

A very good point with Art Major. I believe that his fee was $6,600 with Pepper Tree farm in his 1st season and that was when the economy and sales results were in better shape.

[mango]

Hi Nat/Love Of Courage

I think Rocknroll Heaven would attract heaps more mare's at $8800 than $11000 and it would even itself out $$$$ wise in the end. Example if he gets 150 at $11000 thats 1.65mil and if he got 200 at $8800 thats 1.76mil and i do think there would be a big difference in number of mare's served if he was priced right. And your right Art Major started out at a good price and got the foals on the ground which has helped him make a horse with Heaven starting up at $11000 he wont get know where as many mare's and the thing is you need the numbers on the ground if you are to make it as a stallion.

[nat]

He will get a full book I'm sure and he would have paid his way there and back several time if he stood for $5000 I think $6500-$7500 would have been more the mark but we seem to be getting out of hand on these service fee's and even $5000 is a fair investment for the average family breeding a mare or two in this industry. Look at Sportswriter has been labled the Artsplace clone and has a 2yld record to boot stood for just $6000 SBSW $13,000 the best 2yld and 3yld ever

And yes I agree alot of foals on the ground at a lesser fee is a better investment for the stallion owners than a little at $alot

[buster]

so much for service fees going down to be in line with the sales

amazing how one stallions hype (rocknroll heaven) has resulted in an 11k service fee and another stallions hype has made everyone hate the horse and couldnt get a mare at stud (auckland reactor)

[triplev123]

I have to agree. I really do like the horse BUT it's worth remembering that BOTH Bettor's Delight & Art Major made their debuts at $6,600 incl. GST if I recall correctly and Christian Cullen made his at $4,400 incl. GST. I think R N R Heaven is high side at 11k. His right price here is anywhere between 6.6 & 8.8 incl. GST.

[mango]

Hi Triple

I think by putting that price on him he has lost 50+ mare's already.

[Love Of Courage]

Hello Mango,

Got to agree with you there, the service fee will cost a few mares. I like the stallion but in todays market think that this service fee is too high and will cost mares for sure.

Look forward to Rock N Roll Hanover announcement because if his fee is sensible he will get a lot of the mares that Heaven would have got.

I caught your earlier post Mango which you edited. All I can say is if he grew six inches perhaps they feed him Penis enlargement pills:o

[mango]

Hi Love Of Courage

Yeah that was my stuff up as i read it wrong whilst trying to type watch Bathurst and talk on the phone i can't multi task but i must admit it was worth putting on there to get your reply what a crack up. And i think in an earlier post someone said Hanover will be $12000 + gst and i think there on the mark.

[nat]

Gee's not one positive comment on the sister web site Harnesslink about the announcement of R&R Heavens coming to Australia and his service fee

[mango]

Hi Nat

Some comments made about Heaven's service fee when in general converstion with a few mate's can not be repeated on this forum. So far not one positive and everyone agree's a 1st season sire should be $8800 max. I suppose when it comes back to it you go to the one you can afford as there's plenty out there to choose from. I think stallion's with a service fee of between $4000-$7000 will get a hammering by the sound of it and looking at the sale results it's probably a smart move.

[nat]

If R&R Hanover comes out at a reasonable price say somewhere between $12-15,000 it might shake down some of the big boy and their prices.

[mango]

Hi Nat

$13,200 has been mentioned by alot of people that are up there in the breeding industry. It will be interesting to see if there is a discount structure for multiple mare's served by Hanover, one can only hope. For me personally and thats if Hanover comes out i'd probably lean towards him over Heaven as he is a proven sire that has thrown great progeny, i do agree with everyone else that Heaven was the better racehorse but is a little pricey and even though they say he is 15.2h he looks small and that is a worry when breeding to sell cause if you get a small bay filly you won't even get your service fee back at a sale so to speak.

[mightymo]

RNRH will stand at 12500 + GST

[mango]

Hi Mightymo

Thanks for setting the record straight, what do you think of the price of both Hanover/Heaven and will you be sending mare's to both and do you think there will be any studs lower service fee's on certain stallions.

[triplev123]

Something that's worth keeping in mind...the fee that a horse stands for in the US/CAN is largely irrelevant to that which they stand for down here.
Over & above the syndicated sire/resultant yearling sale aspects, the US/CAN fees are directly influenced by the $$$ available in the associated Sires Stakes program, programs financed to a significantly greater degree than anything going down this way. There are anomalies of course, M3 for example and in reverse, Artiscape...but generally speaking the Yearling Sales $$$ and the $$$ that's available to race for down here versus that which is on offer up there in both categories, cannot be reasonably compared.
While everyone's banging on about the top end of the market and how that relates to yearling sale returns....to put it in some perspective the fact is such a discussion ecompasses a small percentage of that which is already representative of a minority of all foals produced annually here in Oz. It means something to most of us here but overall, like it or not, better than 75% of all Breeders in this country couldn't give a Fat Rat's Arse.

[eliteblood]

At the top end of the market we have SBSW, RNR Hanover, Art Major, Mach Three, Bettors Delight, RNR Heaven, and at the next level down Mister Big, Sportswriter, Jereme's Jet, Four Starzzz Shark, American Ideal, Grinfromeartoear, Shadow Play, Real Desire, Modern Art, McArdle, CUF and probably quite a few others that I haven't thought of.
There has been some big money paid for some of these stallions and competition for mares will be intense. I am sure that some service fees will be reduced and there will be a lot of discounting.

[mango]

Hi Eliteblood

Wecome to the forum , first of all i will agree with you that big money has been paid for stallions and people will continue to do so. Now i noticed you put Heaven in the top end of the market which as a racehorse and on breeding he probably deserves to be, now SBSW is the fastest 3yr old ever and equal fastest horse in a race and with 20 wins and a place from 21 starts and you have included him. Now for me SBSW service fee at $13,200 out here is right on the money as he was a great horse and there won't be many on the ground so they will sell good even though he is not proven. Now Heaven who will be standing in Australia and is unproven but will be standing at $4,000 more than Art Major and Mach 3 and $3,000 more than Bettor's when they started out here so why the big difference, cause when them stallions come out the Aus $1 was buying at the most 80cent US and now our $1 sits above there's. They tell me breeding's a number's game so more on the ground means more winner's and so on. I'll throw a figure at you for example if Heaven serves 180 at $11,000 the = 1.98mil but if his service fee was $8,800 and i'm sure he would at least get an extra 50 mare's so that means 230 and that = 2mil. So it means they are still getting the same money what ever way you look at it. Back in mid January Mr Bellino made a comment that Heaven would only serve about 150 mare's over there but could serve 300 in the southern hemisphere. So could you please tell us is there a cap on number of mare's that he will serve and explain to myself and other forum members why the price difference compared to some of the other stallions Art Major, M3 and Bettor's. Or is the reason having his fee at that price mean that he will get the better mare's and that the market won't be flooded with them (yearling sale's).

[eliteblood]

Hi Mango,

The moneys paid to buy the SH breeding rights to RHR Hanover and RNR Heaven were much much more then for Art Major and Bettors Delight, despite the exchange rate movement.
The service fee however is not necessarily a function of how much the stallion cost but rather how much the broodmare owners are prepared to pay.
In setting the fee at $11000 Pepper Tree Farm obviously believe they can attract a full book at that price. Time will tell if they are right but I personally think both RNRH's will find it tough at their stated fees.
The point of my post was that there are many good stallion choices out there all competing for the higher end of the market. I expect that competition to result in service fee reductions, discounts, deals, etc. Those that get the fee wrong will not have a good year.

[mango]

Hi Eliteblood

Thanks for your reply and i did understand your first post so i thought i'd fill you in on the frequently asked questions. Do you think the prices the Americans are asking for there stallions are way over the top. I'm not sure if there books will fill or not but if Bettor's had over 400 booking's last year i can't see why a proven stallion such as RNR Hanover can't get a full book, i think on the other hand Heaven might struggle a little due to not being a proven sire as yet but who knows. I have heard the asking fee for Hanover is there much difference compared to Heaven and if you had to choose 1 which would it be and why.

[eliteblood]

I don't know if RHR Heaven is going to have semen shipped to NZ. Pepper Tree have been reluctant to do that in the past. If not and he has to fill his book just with Australian mares then I think it will be a challenge given the level of dissatisfaction broodmare owners have with yearling sale prices and the level of competition from other stallions, especially his dad. I think the two RNRH's will be fighting each other for the same bunch of Australian mares. If only one had come they would have found it so much easier.
Maybe I'm being overly cautious, PTF have got it right and he will serve 300 mares.
I am pretty sure RNR Hanover will ship to NZ and I think he will do very well there. I have heard a fee for RNR Hanover of $12500 plus gst.
I would be excited about breeding to either horse. The plus for RNR Hanover is that he has runs on the board. A negative for RNR Heaven is that he is smaller then you would like but I regard RNR Heaven as the better racehorse and like the fact that his mother is a $600k winning Artsplace mare whose only other foal also won $600k. I will certainly be sending mares to him and possibly RNR Hanover as well.
I think the current service fees and the prices being paid for some of these high profile stallions are not aligned to the state of the downunder racing and breeding industries and something has to give. That is not the American stallion owners faults. They will know when they are asking too much when our studs turn their backs and walk away.

[mango]

It makes Sportswriter look attractive at his service fee of $6600 as he was the better 2yr old and won the North American Cup as a 3yr old before soundness issues. People say Sportswriter was and looked like his father Artsplace more than any of the other Artsplace stallions and as i've never seen either up close i can't comment on that. What i do wonder but know one will ever know would Heaven of been so successfull had Sportswriter still been racing.

[eliteblood]

I think Sportswriter is very attractive at $6600.
As you say, we can only surmise about whether he would have maintained the advantage that he had over RNR Heaven prior to his injury. I thought RNR Heaven was just sensational as a 3YO and my gut feeling is that Sportswriter would not have stood in his way.

[buster]

you dont see a problem with going to a stallion with a problem that ended its career (quarter cracks i think)?

[eliteblood]

I personally would not lose 1 minute of sleep worrying about that

[triplev123]

I agree EB. Non-issue and especially so with a sire. I'd be more worried about a mare with QC's because in my experience they're something that's maternally and not paternally driven.
That aside, if you dig around for long enough you'll find that just about every sireline has some sort of a negative aspect to it, one that seems to haunt it more than most. Two examples that come to mind are Abercrombie & No Nukes. It's anecdotal however I believe the Abercrombie line to be more predisposed to Founder/Laminitis than other lines while the No Nukes line seems to me at least to produce an overt number of horses with palate/airway issues & also parrot mouths.

[nat]

I worry more about what they are racing on than injuries, Sportswriter was a super star 2yld, the 3yld season just gone in the US the competition was average for Heaven, he won the big races and posted good times as he should have look at the SBSW 3yld season he trounced nearly all before him but there were 2-3 good horses chasing him at all times Art Official and Shadow Play to name 2 won some good races and money and posted top times

[eliteblood]

Hi Nat
Last year's 3YO's may not have had the depth of SBSW's year (or was it just that RNRH turned up at every major race and totally shut the others out). It's a judgement call but his world record 1:49.2 in both the heat and final of the LBJ were awesome. Shadow Play by comparison won his heat in 1:50 and the final in 1:50.1. Art Official won his heat in 1:52.3 before finishing 3rd in the final.
What distinguishes RNR Heaven from others as a sire prospect is that his racetrack deeds are backed up by a state of the art pedigree.

[nat]

Hi eliteblood

Nothing against the horse and its great that studs like Pepper Tree go and hunt down these quality stallions for our breeding seasons I would breed to him any day. But this horse has been on a media juggernaut for his 3yld season and I personal enjoyed watching his race and reading about him on the net it's just sometimes people can get a little overwhelmed with the media and loose sight of some perspective there wasn't this much talk even when Pepper Tree made SBSW available to the souther hemisphere.

[buster]

agreed nat

[Fullerton]

Nat, SBSW didn't win the jug which from what I understand people from the southern hemisphere think a lot of and he didn't go to the southern hemisphere he only shipped semen. I don't have a dog in the fight here but Heaven deserves all the credit he gets . He raced on every size track didn't shy away from any race and started way early in the year .

[nat]

Hi Fullerton

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm having ago at Heaven he is a wonderful horse and deserves his cudo's I posed the question is he that special he is worth $12000 straight up is he a better horse in whole than Sportswriter, Well Said, SBSW, Art Official & Shadow Play to name a couple. I think now with the net and live broadcasting down here of US races we are starting to look past the Jug and look at the whole picture but you are right in that the winners of the Jug have done quiet well down here at stud. In juvenile racing we see allot that just dominate and post the best times due to the lack of contenders and being able to run to suite then when they go to FFA status cannot cope being muscled around (Auckland Reactor is one that comes to hand)

[nat]

Hi Fullerton just to add to last post


It just seem a lot of breeders down under are disappointed in his fee most were braced for $6500-$9500, we don't often see the big boys come down here or the service fees are astronomical so we tend to breed to the best sons and they are normally half to a third of the price of that their sire. Believe me no one hates the horse everyone is in admiration its just his high service fee we don't have limited books as to drive the sales prices so he could literary serve 300+ mares if the demand is there in the southern hemisphere

[Fullerton]

Thanks nat, but you keep talking about Sports Writer he never won a race on a track besides his home track he never finished in the money anywhere else. Also I dont think there were a lack of contenders I am one who think Heaven was just that good.

[nat]

Hi Fullerton

I don’t know what the media was like up there this year but wouldn’t know if another horse existed up there and Sportswriter is the only horse of his age group that we have herd about that I can compare him to other than that nothing else exists, it's hard to compare any racehorse to SBSW his only let down not racing the Jug a bit like BAF not winning a Miracle Mile but its good to get your opinion of the horse.

What are the horse that will go on to FFA racing from this years 3Yld's is there anything to watch out for any hard luck storys

[Fullerton]

Good question One More Laugh won the Medowlands pace $1,570,000 ,We Will See Pa sire stakes Champ $803,408, Kyle Major ,Fred and Ginger $518,000, Meirs Hanover just won the Cam Fella Pace last week , Thats just some off the top of my head.

[nat]

One More Laugh has great closing speed, Did I see Valintino has had a stable change and how dose he fare in the scheme of things normally good FFA horses are there about in the juvenile racing then come of age.

[Fullerton]

I think Valentino is a good horse I also like AJ Corbelli I think you will see the better ones starting to Qual soon . The Levy at Yonkers this weekend will show some of the top contenders.

[nat]

Thanks Fullerton

Just watched race 10 from Yonker boy the caller did a good job that fog shocking allot of down under horse's on the card and noticed a few racing a Mile and 1/16

[mango]

I just watched 1 min of footage of Rocknroll Heaven being led on You Tube which is currently on the USTA web site, just wondering what people think of his size.

[eliteblood]

I just watched 1 min of footage of Rocknroll Heaven being led on You Tube which is currently on the USTA web site, just wondering what people think of his size.

This was discussed yesterday on another forum.
RNR Heaven is reportedly 15.1 and expected to grow some more to 15.2.
Some current stallions 15.1 h or less are Bettors Delight, CUF, Village Jasper and Western Terror.
Some past stallions include Western Hanover, Good Time, Albatross, Hal Dale, Big Towner, Race Time, Lordship, Johnny Globe. Possibly Abercrombie ???
IMO his size is not an issue unless you have a small mare, in which case you may be pushing the boundaries.

[triplev123]

Perception's a funny thing troops.
I actually liked the look of him a lot more in that 50-odd seconds of vision than I did when he was geared up out on the race track. To me he looks the goods. Seems everything's in the right place & with the right mares he'll be sweet, no problems at all. For what it's worth I like the way he carries himself. Btw. those are some excellent examples of similarly sized horses Eliteblood. Hal Dale, Good Time, Albatross, Big Towner, Western Hanover & Bettor's Delight. Enough said.

[mango]

Hi Eliteblood/Trilpev

Thanks for the info guy's on comparing Heaven to other stallion's of note, beside's Bettor's Delight/CUF/Village Jasper i didn't have the fortune of seeing these other horses beside's the odd pic in a book and then it's hard to tell so your view on the size is greatly appreciated and also give's me some confidence in sending a mare to Heaven.

[triplev123]

G'day Mango,

Just trust your gut feeling mate, whatever it may be, pro or con. That's all I ever do.

[Don Corleone]

He looks good and I loved the way he moved.

[triplev123]

Same here Don C. Looks like a Cocky bugger. As I said before, I like the way he carries himself.

[mango]

I must admit i was a little worried about his size untill Eliteblood mentioned other stallions of the same size and looking what they have done all i really need to do is select the right mare. I watched his races again last night and he sure was a good horse. I never go and look at stallion's on farm much but when he comes out i think i'll take the drive over to Cowra and have a good look and whilst there take a look at Sportswriter as they reckon he filled out into a nice horse.

[triplev123]

Tee it up with Eliteblood and get Rob to take you both over to Cowra for dinner, make sure it's his shout though. There's a really good Chinese Restraurant there, at least there was the last time I went through town. Their Crownies are ice-cold. Watch out for Eliteblood though. After a few he can get all loud and demonstrative. I think he picked it up from years of playing Golf on Wednesdays with BPH & Gerry. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[eliteblood]

I must admit i was a little worried about his size untill Eliteblood mentioned other stallions of the same size and looking what they have done all i really need to do is select the right mare. I watched his races again last night and he sure was a good horse. I never go and look at stallion's on farm much but when he comes out i think i'll take the drive over to Cowra and have a good look and whilst there take a look at Sportswriter as they reckon he filled out into a nice horse.

There is a yearling and broodmare sale on 11/9 at Pepper Tree Farm. It will be a good opportunity to have a look at both RNR Heaven and Sportswriter

[mango]

Hi Eliteblood

That would be the ideal time to go over for a look just as long as i can keep my hands down by my side.