Anyone coming to the Sydney APG Sale?

[triplev123]

?

[triplev123]

http://free-loops.com/2889-crickets-chirping.html

[justdoit]

Not likely this year TripleV123, the budget has taken a fare hit in the last few days.

Young Mr B Coffey, you spoke of him on another thread did he arrived home ok?

[mango]

Hey Justdoit
Ben Scadden who is normally on this forum hasn't been on for a while and he also was going over to the sale's.

Hi Triplev123
Not sure if i will be there yet as i've thrown the crutchers away and i'm back at work and there riding me harder than the pumper on a $1.20 fav in the home straight at randwick.

[mightymo]

Not likely this year TripleV123, the budget has taken a fare hit in the last few days.

Young Mr B Coffey, you spoke of him on another thread did he arrived home ok?

Spoke to Brett a little earlier. He is safe and well and back in Perth. Sounded very glad to be home

[justdoit]

Thanks Mightymo, thats good to hear.

[triplev123]

Thanks Mightymo. Good to hear BC is home and well.
As I said to him on the phone on that dreadful day, no doubt being much relieved by the fact that he actually answered it and sounded fine, I don't have many mates so I have to look after the ones I've got. He just laughed and called me a stupid bastard. :D:D:D:D:D

[mango]

Hey Triple/Mightmo
All the best at the sale's tommorrow.

[mightymo]

thanks Mango

[mango]

The Sydney sale parade has been completed and the winners are

Colt - Lot 499 Lombo Pocket Watch - Christy Ella prepared by David & Rachael Micallef

Filly - Lot 431 Village Jasper - Smooth Treos prepared by Blanche Poole

[nat]

Hi Mango

Lot 499 was he really black with grey fleck through his coat (no pic on net) those at the Lombo sale were nice types and if they were by and American sire would had sold through the roof on looks alone

[triplev123]

Those were interesting choices Mango.
The Colt looked NOTHING like a Jet Laag. He was an absolute dead ringer for the progeny of his damsire, Die Laughing, even had the same markings.
The Filly was well made but I thought a bit on the small side. As usual Blanche did a superb job of prepping & presenting.
From the fillies, I took a shine to one of the early lots tomorrow, 378, a Dream Away from a Walton Hanover mare named Mayflower Miss, offered by Yirribee. Also liked another Dream Away filly, 424, from a Northern Lights mare, Shelley Lombo. Always liked that immediate family, they all seem to have high speed. Did not look at the colts.

[mango]

No need to look at the colts Triple as you and me both prefer to race fillies.

Hi Nat
The Pocket Watch colt was black with no grey in him last time i seen him.

[mango]

If anyone hears of any results through out today feel free to post them as i had to work and couldn't get to the sale's.

[triplev123]

I'll get the results through to you at some point soon Mango.
Have to sit down and type them all out.
We sold the FSS/Talilia colt, Lot 440, for 31k. Happy enough with that. :D:D:D:D
He looked great, very proud of him, turned out exactly how I hoped he would back when we first bred the mare. Has gone to Mal Whiteford down in VIC. Very nice fella. Barry Lew & Mick Siejka the under-bidders. VERY happy they all saw in him what I did.

[mango]

Hey Tripple
Don't worry about writing them out they'll be on the computer today, it will be interesting to see the wash up from this sale and to see if the APG can put there usual spin on things. By the sound of it if you have a filly you might as well just keep it to race.

[BenScadden]

Hey guys,

I managed to make my way to Sydney and enjoyed the couple of days there.

I didn't pay much heed to the prizes given on parade day. Apparently the horses weren't supposed to be judged on conformation ... it was all about presentation. So I guess if you plaited their manes and sprayed some glitter over them, you were a certainty to take home the ribbon. Seems a very unusual criteria to me ... but I guess everyone should judge for themselves, anyway.

My mate ended up taking home an American Ideal filly. We looked at lots and narrowed it down to her and a Jeremes Jet filly, with the American Ideal filly the first choice. I loved her ... thought she looked just like I'd want an American Ideal filly to look ... plenty of depth, length and a nice size. Time will tell, as always.

[triplev123]

All sold now Mango. It wasn't the way I'd have preferred to do so but it is what it is.
It was a bit surprising to me just how many people there were out and about and scouting around for horses AFTER they had gone through the ring. I guess it's no different to houses being purchased a few days after they're passed in at auction. Never noticed it at a horse sale before, never really had cause to do so though. All's well that ends well.

[mango]

Better to be sold then have to take them home and your dad can breathe a bit easier at home now lol.

[triplev123]

Yeh, that's a line drawn under the season and on with the next.
For someone who's not all that fussed about horses credit where it's due, Mum's very understanding with Dad because she knows we have a shared interest with him but she also likes to see Dad & my brother & I trying as much as possible to keep it on a business-like basis. Mum's always a seller too, pitch her a price and if she can make it work she sells. Very practical. Sell and repent but always sell and it kept going through my head all day yesterday.
I don't mind saying I shed a tear or two when our colt sold. I always thought that he would go well... but it was still a HUGE relief to see him actually do so. A few more lessons were learned yesterday & with some fine tuning we'll be back again next season.

[justdoit]

Hi TripleV123,
I like your Mum's way of thinking.
On Saturday a trainer and horse owner showed up at our door unannounced, after 2 really good coffees over 2 hours 2 yearling were sold:)

[mightymo]

Just had a very quick look at the results:

170 odd lots were sold. Without counting, let assume 85 fillies and 85 colts.

I use $15000 as a breakeven on a 5-6k stallion.

How many fillies of the approx 85 made 15k or more???


14!!!!(and six were Art Majors whose service fee is much more than 5-6K)

in other words, for every 10 filies that went to the sale, at least 8 LOST money
for the vendor!!

That is simply not sustainable...

Something serious has to be done!!

[BenScadden]

Just had a very quick look at the results:

170 odd lots were sold. Without counting, let assume 85 fillies and 85 colts.

I use $15000 as a breakeven on a 5-6k stallion.

How many fillies of the approx 85 made 15k or more???


14!!!!(and six were Art Majors whose service fee is much more than 5-6K)

in other words, for every 10 filies that went to the sale, at least 8 LOST money
for the vendor!!

That is simply not sustainable...

Something serious has to be done!!

Couldn't agree more.

I'm sure APG will sugar-coat it with some spin on figures to say what a fantastic success all the sales were. Speak to vendors nationwide and I'm sure many would disagree.

I'm of the personal belief service fees in Australia are too high ... but it's hard to argue with them when breeders are blindly prepared to book out those at the top level (then quite possibly regret it in a few years). What about those poor buggers who paid $25k for a Cullen service not that long ago? Some will do well - most will lose their dough. That kind of fee is unsustainable in our racing environment, I reckon.

If you sit back and analysed things without taking into account the enjoyment factor, you'd say breeding to sell is a mug's game. But I'm a mug who'll keep on doing it forever - because I love it. I guess I'll also been lucky enough to race a couple of OK horses who have helped pay for those not-so-great periods.

I don't have any kind of solution, unfortunately. I think the reality of breeding standardbreds is that some people will do well out of it for a while - and everyone will do badly out of it at some stage in their life.

[justdoit]

Hi Mightymo,
What do you think needs to be done?
I think it was TripleV123 that spoke of a lower service fee if a filly is born, a good idea if you can get the stud farm to agree.
The possibility of reduced service fees to above average stallions??? The odds of that happening would be nearer to 100/1 than 50/1. IMO


Check out the median price.
http://jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=14

[triplev123]

G'day justdoit,

Not sure if I was the one who originally raised it but nevertheless I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support the notion.
Until such time as the reasonable racing opportunities and so true earning capacity of the fillies and mares is that of the colts, entires & geldings...then there should be a discount/rebate on the service fee if the foaling results in a filly.
That being said, purely from a selling perspective, and as I was reminded at the Sales on Sunday and once again last night at the Breeders Panel meeting at Menangle, only 15% of the annual foal crop goes to the Sales or in other words 85% of the horses bred every season never see a sale ring. Add to that one of last night's most interesting stats, that nationally just a tick or two better than 75% of the horses bred every season are produced by their breeders with the intention of racing and there you have it. We can like it or lump it but the level of Sales focus is way, way out of step with the proportion of the annual foal crop to which it caters. It's the profile/glamour end of the Breeding Industry...but it only speaks for around 1.5 in every 10 foals produced each year. All of that pretty much gels with the numbers I've come up with. It's a 15/10/75 split & from what I can gather it has been that way for quite some time now. For example, if we were to take the 2009/2010 Oz foal crop of 5,197 live foals, about 780 of them will subsequently go salewards, a further 520 or so are sold privately at some point and for the bulk of them, somewhere around about 3,900 foals, they will go on to be raced by their Breeders. It puts the Sales in perspective. Don't get me wrong, I love them, it's my 2nd favourite time of year after foaling, but it is what it is...a fraction, a minority of the overall action.

[justdoit]

TripleV123,
Thank you for that information.
It is never good to lose money or see it happening to someone else,
at some stage we all change our approach when this is occuring.

[mango]

Looking at the prices from all of the sale's i do wonder why i breed. You send a mare to a $5,000 stallion and then just say the working fee is $1,000 and then agistment for the year say $2,000 race payments and registration say $500 prep for the sale say $500 then there are extra's such as trims, wormings, handling the foal at weaning time $300. So there's over $9,000 before you make any money and the thing is if it doesn't make $9,000 you by it back and it costs you another $900 in commission. So realistically you could save yourself all the worry and just go pick one out on sale day. But there is know fun in that so i keep breeding lol.

[mightymo]

Looking at the prices from all of the sale's i do wonder why i breed. You send a mare to a $5,000 stallion and then just say the working fee is $1,000 and then agistment for the year say $2,000 race payments and registration say $500 prep for the sale say $500 then there are extra's such as trims, wormings, handling the foal at weaning time $300. So there's over $9,000 before you make any money and the thing is if it doesn't make $9,000 you by it back and it costs you another $900 in commission. So realistically you could save yourself all the worry and just go pick one out on sale day. But there is know fun in that so i keep breeding lol.

$500 prep for the sale. Where??

It costs somewhere between 3-4000 for a 10 week sales prep

[mango]

I was just throwing prices around and 6wks should be enough unless there in poor nick which they shouldn't be if you pay agistment.

Approx $1300 will get them done in 6wks and to the sale and if you want shoes on thats extra.

[Greg Hando]

Mightymo if your paying that much for a sales prep of 10 weeks your are being ripped off big time i suggest you look around

[justdoit]

No no no,
You IMO get what you pay for, or the horse gets what you pay for.
We tried to cut costs and get a cheaper yearling prep ONCE, the guy was spoken of in a good way
and so we sent him acouple to get ready for the sales. At week 6 we went up to have a look at the horses,
they were ok, what they were being feed was of very poor quality, the stables had holes in the walls, their exercise consisted of
being turned out in a paddock with barbed wire and from the looks of it his dogs would chase them around for a while, the grooming was an extra rug or two and the bedding was from the looks of it old pasture hay.
The horses made it to the sales and yes it was cheaper, but not worth all the risks. IMO

[mightymo]

It does vary from preparer to preparer in both Aust and NZ.

In Auckland its 12 weeks @$45/day plus worming, shoeing etc

Christchurch is a little cheaper, although one guy i use takes 2% of gross sale fee as well

In Aust, its 10 weeks @$35/day plus a few little bits here and there

[mango]

Hi Mightymo

I've spoke to a couple of people over the last few day's about having yearling's in for 10 weeks and they tell me thats a joke and your getting taken for a ride. For a start your paying to much per day and they can do the job easy in 6wks so you might want to tell them only to get them in 6 weeks before the sale or you will look else where.

[justdoit]

Hi Mango,
8 weeks minimum and or more if needed, $40 a day, plus extras.

[mango]

Hi Justdoit

I've seen horses in for 6wks and they looked great 8 wks is over the top and they don't need to be in that long, and $40 a day i hope your joking cause thats just highway robbery. I can tell you now i know of a bloke who does it for near half that price and had comments in Sydney on how great his yearling's were prepared and also took home the ribbon for the colts division and had a filly selected in the top 3. And extra's are cartage and shoeing if the owner requests.