Black cavier

[buster]

If anyone missed the Newmarket get a replay, the most amazing win I've ever seen
the crowd started clapping at the 300 as she was just jogging

[aussiebreno]

Havent seen a win in G1 company that dominant since Christian Cullen won the Miracle Mile

[Village Kid]

It was like watcihng a replay of her Lightning Stakes win, her ability to be on the bridle while other top class sprinters are having their ears scrubbed off is simply remarkable.

They haven't got to the bottom of her yet either. Amazing mare.

[craig]

Who cares...This is a harness racing forum, the gallops has enough exposure as it is with out talking about them here. Worst thing is they rig races left right and centre have one of there biggest trainers married to one of the countries biggest bookmakers who has done time and people think they are all above board. The gallops are the new "RED HOTS" of the 21th century.

[buster]

Yeah and the trots get a slice of their turnover - Which is more then we are entitled to

[Mighty Atom]

Yeah and the trots get a slice of their turnover - Which is more then we are entitled to
Hate to be the party pooper again. Black Caviar is a great sprinter but until she beats the worlds best it still has to be proven. That Newmarket field was the weakest lot of sprinters there has been for a while....and you can include Hay List amongst that lot. She came close to breaking the race record but she didn't. That means there are other horse's in the past that would have kept pace with her. The fact is the other so called sprinters are pathetic. Isn't Star Witness supposed to be going to Royal Ascot for their sprints?-you have to be joking.

[aussiebreno]

Hate to be the party pooper again. Black Caviar is a great sprinter but until she beats the worlds best it still has to be proven. That Newmarket field was the weakest lot of sprinters there has been for a while....and you can include Hay List amongst that lot. She came close to breaking the race record but she didn't. That means there are other horse's in the past that would have kept pace with her. The fact is the other so called sprinters are pathetic. Isn't Star Witness supposed to be going to Royal Ascot for their sprints?-you have to be joking.
Until she beats the worlds best? Its hard to beat yourself! But it would be the only way she would get beat!

Weakest lot of sprinters? Lets go through this

Crystal Lily a slipper winner; probably another Miss Andretti. Take BC out and we'd be calling CL a superstar - they went lightning quick early and still nothing ran past her.
Star Witness is a dual group1 winner
Eagle Falls had form around Starspangledbanner who has proven how good Aust sprinting is in England. BC would dominate Starspangledbanner no questions asked.
Last prep she annhilated Ortensia by 6lengths eased down; Ortensia then got within two lengths of JJ the Jet Plane.

Track records are only an inlination in the galloping world. In harness all the superstars hold the track records. In gallops you get quite a few relative donkeys hold the track records.

[mango]

Great run by a very classy mare, i'd like to see her go overseas and see if she is the best sprinter in the world.

[buster]

It's proven that Aussie sprinters are the best in the world

she is better than any sprinter around - she is a world champion

I don't see US baseball world champs going to Asia to prove they are the best - because everyone already knows they are the pinnacle of the toughest domestic competition

and Craig I feel sorry for you if you can't enjoy a horse like her

[Mighty Atom]

Hi aussiebreno, we will have to disagree on this one. Crystal Lily - Golden Slipper winner, a race for 2 year olds, a Miss Andretti - I don,t think so. Ortensia is always getting there but rarely does and Star Witness, I would be surprised if they even take him to England. Eagle Falls was supposed to be some sort of sprinting hope a season or two ago, since then he,s done nothing. Mind you I've always said why should our horses have to go overseas to prove they are the best, Let the others come here. There has to be a substantial increase in sprinting stakemoney to lure them here. Why would they come here when they can race for much bigger stakes in Hong Kong or Japan?.

[aussiebreno]

Hi aussiebreno, we will have to disagree on this one. Crystal Lily - Golden Slipper winner, a race for 2 year olds, a Miss Andretti - I don,t think so. Ortensia is always getting there but rarely does and Star Witness, I would be surprised if they even take him to England. Eagle Falls was supposed to be some sort of sprinting hope a season or two ago, since then he,s done nothing. Mind you I've always said why should our horses have to go overseas to prove they are the best, Let the others come here. There has to be a substantial increase in sprinting stakemoney to lure them here. Why would they come here when they can race for much bigger stakes in Hong Kong or Japan?.
That says everything I need to know. Won a G1 last month.

Who cares if she doesnt 'prove' she is better than Rocket Man, JJ Jet Plane, Sacred Kingdom or whoever (Ive never seen them race why should I or the Aust public care)- the from says she'd be a odds on pop anyway. She is the most dominant horse since CUF was a juvenile. Absolutely amazing.

[craig]

Hey buster dont feel sorry for me because firstly i dont need you to and secondly at no stage did i say anything bad about the mare other then this is a harness site not a galloping site. As for my comments about the gallops been the new red hots i will stick by that. You only have to see More Strawberries run at warwick farm last saturday. Not good to have a leading trainer married to a leading bookmaker, or up here in Qld at eagle farm two wednesday ago the stewards closed an enquirey because they thought it would look bad for there indusrtry. The gallops are very good at covering up anything that looks bad for them. Have look at the Qld racing web site to see how many positive swabs the gallops have every week to deal with, yet have not seen a harness trainer here in Qld on any positives for a long time now. One last thing buster i dont have time to sit and watch horse races every day. Some of us get rich by working hard not dreaming about it.

[buster]

hey craig get yourself foxtel IQ and treat yourself some time in your pursuit of happiness

[triplev123]

I stay right away from the TB's. Once you leg the Monkeys up...you never know what they're going to do.

[Village Kid]

Hate to be the party pooper again. Black Caviar is a great sprinter but until she beats the worlds best it still has to be proven. That Newmarket field was the weakest lot of sprinters there has been for a while....and you can include Hay List amongst that lot. She came close to breaking the race record but she didn't. That means there are other horse's in the past that would have kept pace with her. The fact is the other so called sprinters are pathetic. Isn't Star Witness supposed to be going to Royal Ascot for their sprints?-you have to be joking.


Couldn't disagree more with all due respect Mighty Atom. Hay List was being talked up as a superstar in the Spring, and now that BC has thumped him twice he's suddenly a D Grader. Hot Danish was coming off 4 straight wins including the All Aged Satkes and Doomben 10,000 and got beaten 5.5 length by her in the Moir, and suddenly she's no good. Melito, there is talk of an overseas campaign focusing on Mile races like the Princess Anne Stakes at Ascot, she couldn't get within 8-10 lengths of BC in the Spring. And Ortensia ran Sacred Kingdom, JJ The Jet Plane Rocket Man and co to under 2 lengths in the HK International Sprint, yet couldn't get near the great Mare in the Emirates Classic.

She broke the Race Record, got win .2 of the track record unextended, carried 58Kg's (no horse of either sex has carried more in the modern era, and only Shaftesbury Avenue has carried as much and he was a champ himself) and thats not even taking into consideration she is a Mare and would have been in receipt of significant weight had it been WFA.

Sunline carried 58KGs in her 2nd Doncaster after 10 Group 1's inc. 2 Cox Plates, a Doncaster and a HK Mile win, Makybe Diva had 2 Melbourne Cups, a BMW, Cox Plate etc under her belt when she was asked to carry 58KGs in her 3rd Melbourne Cup win, and Black Caviar has carried 58Kgs after 9 starts as a 4 Yr old in our feature Group 1 Sprint!!

Will be interesting to see how Star Witness, Hay List and Co go overseas, he was disappointing yesterday Star Witness but I wouldn't write him off just yet.

BC is an out and out champion. I've never backed, her, probably never will but still you can't help but love her.

Still, that's what forums are about, differences of opinion!!

[Mighty Atom]

Hi Village Kid, Firstly, I will start with our current crop of sprinters ( Star Witness, Hay List, etc ). If they were taken over to the U.K. for the big sprints ( King's Stand etc ) they would be found wanting. Our great sprinters in the passed have gone over ( all much better than the aforementioned ) and performed brilliantly in the opening sprint but with the exception of Choisir,couldn't go on with it. As far as Hong Kong is concerned - no chance - and Singapore - doubtful. Someone on a previous comment said that Starspangledbanner wouldn't live with Black Caviar over 1200 metres. Just like to remind all that SPB was a super star international galloper able to maintain high speed over all distances up to 1600 m. Black Caviar has not achieved as yet what he has. As that over champion you mentioned - Shaftsbury Avenue - what a versatile champ he was. The horse sat 3 wide the entire way in the 1991 Japan Cup and ran 3rd to Golden Pheasant and should have won it. As much as BC is a sprinting champ she has yet to emulate the feats of these two great horses. Village Kid, always interesting to hear others views. Just an addition, I was never convinced about Hay List. I again thought he was racing a pretty average bunch of sprinters.

[Village Kid]

Great point re Shaftesbury Avenue MA, can you imagine a horse winning the Lightning/Newmarket and running 3rd in the Japan Cup the same year? Amazing!! And a terrible ride by the Gauch, 3 deep the trip from a decent draw as you said and yet still found himself near last behind a wall of horses at the top of the straight. What a horse he could have been had he remained sound.


Starspangledbanner is an interesting one, beaten comfortably by Wanted in the Lightning and Newmarket in the Autumn, yet able to win brilliantly multiple Group 1's overseas just a few months later. Black Caviar beat Wanted in the Spring down the straight at Flemington, despite missing the start and injuring herself in the process, so I certainly think the form lines up. Starspangledbanner, Choisir, Scenic Blast, by no mean dominating sprinters down under yet able to win features over the Ascot Carnival. The strength of the European sprinters certainly has to be questioned, hence why I think a few of our second string horses like Star Witness and Hay List wouldn't be out of place.

Just great to support Aussie horses overseas, whether they be in NZ for the Inters or at Royal Ascot in front of the Queen. Would be great to see the mare on the International stage, but with her history of injury I hope she just stands up to a few more runs this campaign.

Cheers

[aussiebreno]

Hi Village Kid, Firstly, I will start with our current crop of sprinters ( Star Witness, Hay List, etc ). If they were taken over to the U.K. for the big sprints ( King's Stand etc ) they would be found wanting. Our great sprinters in the passed have gone over ( all much better than the aforementioned ) and performed brilliantly in the opening sprint but with the exception of Choisir,couldn't go on with it. As far as Hong Kong is concerned - no chance - and Singapore - doubtful. Someone on a previous comment said that Starspangledbanner wouldn't live with Black Caviar over 1200 metres. Just like to remind all that SPB was a super star international galloper able to maintain high speed over all distances up to 1600 m. Black Caviar has not achieved as yet what he has. As that over champion you mentioned - Shaftsbury Avenue - what a versatile champ he was. The horse sat 3 wide the entire way in the 1991 Japan Cup and ran 3rd to Golden Pheasant and should have won it. As much as BC is a sprinting champ she has yet to emulate the feats of these two great horses. Village Kid, always interesting to hear others views. Just an addition, I was never convinced about Hay List. I again thought he was racing a pretty average bunch of sprinters.
Hay List would be found wanting at Royal Ascot...he is better than Ortensia who got beat just 1.8lengths by JJ The Jet Plane who would beat anything the English have.

Exactly, Starstangledbanner is a superstar international galloper. Yet he wasnt that great in Australia. Is that telling you something? On his Australian form Black Caviar would beat him by 10lengths. He won July Cup and Golden Jubilee after failing in the Newmarket. Black Caviar wins the Newmarket untapped by 3 lengths and you want to say she is no good. LOL

[Mighty Atom]

Hay List would be found wanting at Royal Ascot...he is better than Ortensia who got beat just 1.8lengths by JJ The Jet Plane who would beat anything the English have.

Exactly, Starstangledbanner is a superstar international galloper. Yet he wasnt that great in Australia. Is that telling you something? On his Australian form Black Caviar would beat him by 10lengths. He won July Cup and Golden Jubilee after failing in the Newmarket. Black Caviar wins the Newmarket untapped by 3 lengths and you want to say she is no good. LOL
I've noticed that the connections of Hay List have decided not to take him to Royal Ascot - smart move. What really gets up my nose is the way people are all to eager to declare a horse a champion, put it on a pedestal and idolize it.I have nothing against the horse, I think she is a champion, but she has nothing to measure her ability by. Most of the great sprinters of the world head to the big international sprints where the big money is,that is where you find out how good they are.It is no point in" saying let them come here to race"because we've got no money. I'm sure they would if we did. So hopefully, in the future, BC can put her champion tag on the line and follow some of the other great sprinters of the world. Then we can see how good she is. I,m happy the connections have no plans to take her overseas as a four year old but maybe next year. We have been far too carried away by the international ratings system declaring her the best sprinter in the world.

[aussiebreno]

I've noticed that the connections of Hay List have decided not to take him to Royal Ascot - smart move. What really gets up my nose is the way people are all to eager to declare a horse a champion, put it on a pedestal and idolize it.I have nothing against the horse, I think she is a champion, but she has nothing to measure her ability by. Most of the great sprinters of the world head to the big international sprints where the big money is,that is where you find out how good they are.It is no point in" saying let them come here to race"because we've got no money. I'm sure they would if we did. So hopefully, in the future, BC can put her champion tag on the line and follow some of the other great sprinters of the world. Then we can see how good she is. I,m happy the connections have no plans to take her overseas as a four year old but maybe next year. We have been far too carried away by the international ratings system declaring her the best sprinter in the world.
No-one in the horse racing industry in Australia give the International ratings system any credence anyway - whether it had her rated 145 or 115.

If you cant see Black Caviar is the best in the world and the best Australia has had for a long time then I strongly suggest you dont punt on horse racing ever again. Its a very easy formline to follow. Black Caviar >>>>>>> Starspangledbanner >>> The English. Or Black Caviar >>>>>JJ Jet Plane >>> Ortensia ; given Black Caviar >>>>>>>>>>> Ortensia and JJ Jet Plane >>> Ortensia

[Mighty Atom]

Aussiebreno, your equation is pretty good.Where it falls down is the inclusion of Ortensia. You mentioned about never punting again....well this is one horse I will never have any problems with.As I've said before O's always flying at the finish but never gets there.I backed her in the C F Orr Stakes.She sat one out and one back, ran into second halfway up the strait and got passed by Heart Of Dreams and finished third. I know another great champion was in the race,but Typhoon Tracey had been out of sorts for a while.I thought 1400 would have suited her but obviously not.So I'm passing on her in the future.

[aussiebreno]

Aussiebreno, your equation is pretty good.Where it falls down is the inclusion of Ortensia. You mentioned about never punting again....well this is one horse I will never have any problems with.As I've said before O's always flying at the finish but never gets there.I backed her in the C F Orr Stakes.She sat one out and one back, ran into second halfway up the strait and got passed by Heart Of Dreams and finished third. I know another great champion was in the race,but Typhoon Tracey had been out of sorts for a while.I thought 1400 would have suited her but obviously not.So I'm passing on her in the future.
You reckon you never had any problems with Ortensia....you say shes always flying at the finish but never gets there...then next breath say she got into second but then got passed....hmmm

You call Typhoon Tracy a great champion but wont give Black Caviar a higher credit. I can't get my head around that one.

[Mighty Atom]

Hi aussiebreno, I should have been a little more explicative regarding Ortensia. I meant I would never have any problems with her because I wont be backing her. A little over zealous with the great champion tag on Typhoon Tracy,probably more a great horse than great champion. "Great champion"," champion", are terms I rarely use on horses these days. I've been around horses for forty years and have been fortunate to see every great champion pacer of the past to race in the flesh. So I hesitate at labeling a lot of today's equines with the somewhat over used cliched tag - champion

[regal]

I've noticed that the connections of Hay List have decided not to take him to Royal Ascot - smart move. What really gets up my nose is the way people are all to eager to declare a horse a champion, put it on a pedestal and idolize it.I have nothing against the horse, I think she is a champion, but she has nothing to measure her ability by. Most of the great sprinters of the world head to the big international sprints where the big money is,that is where you find out how good they are.It is no point in" saying let them come here to race"because we've got no money. I'm sure they would if we did. So hopefully, in the future, BC can put her champion tag on the line and follow some of the other great sprinters of the world. Then we can see how good she is. I,m happy the connections have no plans to take her overseas as a four year old but maybe next year. We have been far too carried away by the international ratings system declaring her the best sprinter in the world. Yes 1 million $ Newmarket, 1million $ TJ Smith, yes we have no prizemoney,we are going badly here aren't we!!!!!! Its a shame Black Caviar has to go to bris for the paltry $400 000 BTC cup, and with the dollar trading at about 1.05 US and 64 pence. A meeting in the uk a week or so ago was giving away about$26000 in prizemoney for a 7 event gallops card!!! Maybe Black Caviar will get a little indigestion afterwards but she will eat any sprinter in the world!

[triplev123]

Black Cavier? Isn't a Cavier a rodent of some kind...something like a Guinea Pig or a Hamster?
Why would anyone name a horse after one of them...a childhood pet perhaps?

[regal1]

Black Cavier? Isn't a Cavier a rodent of some kind...something like a Guinea Pig or a Hamster?
Why would anyone name a horse after one of them...a childhood pet perhaps? It is Black Caviar as in the fish egg delicacy.

[triplev123]

Ok, was looking at the Thread title.
Incidentally, ever seen the fish they pull the Caviar from? Plug Ugly S-O-B's.
http://images.bradspictures.com/bpictures/r/russian_sturgeon_open_mouth-4259.jpeg

If you were out fishing & hauled one of them in you'd club it with a shovel in a heartbeat.
Looks a fair bit like Julia Gillard come to think of it...only no doubt the fish would know the difference between Hyperbole and HYPER-BOWL.

[regal1]

Ok, was looking at the Thread title.
Incidentally, ever seen the fish they pull the Caviar from? Plug Ugly S-O-B's.
http://images.bradspictures.com/bpictures/r/russian_sturgeon_open_mouth-4259.jpeg

If you were out fishing & hauled one of them in you'd club it with a shovel in a heartbeat.
Looks a fair bit like Julia Gillard come to think of it...only no doubt the fish would know the difference between Hyperbole and HYPER-BOWL.I would say it may look pretty attractive to the male fish!! And am i correct in suggesting that you think people are listening to and repeating Hyperbole in regards to Black Caviar?

[triplev123]

Nah, I don't watch the TB's, they don't interest me. When you leg the Monkeys up you never know what they're going to do next.

[regal1]

Pacers and trotters dont steer themselves:)

[Mighty Atom]

Yes 1 million $ Newmarket, 1million $ TJ Smith, yes we have no prizemoney,we are going badly here aren't we!!!!!! Its a shame Black Caviar has to go to bris for the paltry $400 000 BTC cup, and with the dollar trading at about 1.05 US and 64 pence. A meeting in the uk a week or so ago was giving away about$26000 in prizemoney for a 7 event gallops card!!! Maybe Black Caviar will get a little indigestion afterwards but she will eat any sprinter in the world!
Hi Regal, I thought this thread was dead so I've taken the opportunity to start myself off again. I must be the only person in Australia that doesn't expound to the Hyperbole and unproven superlatives of the Aust media and racing public. I take nothing away from Black Caviar but the media's claim to be the worlds best sprinter is unfounded.A few figures on a piece of paper saying she is the best in the world proves nothing. I point out that horses such as JJ The Jet Plane, Rocket Man and others go there merry way winning sprint races around the world from Hong Kong to Dubai winning millions in stakemoney while BC races against two bit sprinters that wouldn't get a look in over there. The trainers of these horses ( particularly the Japanese ) have no hesitation in loading up there charges and taking them to where ever they have to. They do not deal in hollow rhetoric. The challenge is now open to the connections of Black Caviar to equal this before I claim her to be the best in the world.

[regal1]

Hi Regal, I thought this thread was dead so I've taken the opportunity to start myself off again. I must be the only person in Australia that doesn't expound to the Hyperbole and unproven superlatives of the Aust media and racing public. I take nothing away from Black Caviar but the media's claim to be the worlds best sprinter is unfounded.A few figures on a piece of paper saying she is the best in the world proves nothing. I point out that horses such as JJ The Jet Plane, Rocket Man and others go there merry way winning sprint races around the world from Hong Kong to Dubai winning millions in stakemoney while BC races against two bit sprinters that wouldn't get a look in over there. The trainers of these horses ( particularly the Japanese ) have no hesitation in loading up there charges and taking them to where ever they have to. They do not deal in hollow rhetoric. The challenge is now open to the connections of Black Caviar to equal this before I claim her to be the best in the world. Hello Mighty Atom, well i dont think it is Hyperbole,i think it is just watching and seeing a sprinter do what she does. She will go to HK,probably Dubai and England late in the year and into 2012,i think a lot of people cant wait.A story this week said that J J The Jetplane and Rocket Man were likely to come to Flemington in the spring for the Patinack.After winning in Dubai Rocket Man's trainer said make it bigger prizemoney and he might consider it,which is a bit silly on his behalf as the Golden Shaheen was worth $800 000.Time will tell,though if the first meeting is at Flemington and it is good/fast track i hope they can break 1min6.5! they will need to! and i think JJ is about 12 from 24 so he has been beaten as many times as he has won,but no doubting he is a class sprinter.I think our so called 2nd and 3 raters would go close in the big sprints in the UK, tomorrow in the T J Smith i think 9 out of the 11 are group 1 winners so thats not a poor field.

[aussiebreno]

Black Cavier? Isn't a Cavier a rodent of some kind...something like a Guinea Pig or a Hamster?
Why would anyone name a horse after one of them...a childhood pet perhaps?


It is Black Caviar as in the fish egg delicacy.
VVV humour claims a newbie

[aussiebreno]

Black Cavier? Isn't a Cavier a rodent of some kind...something like a Guinea Pig or a Hamster?
Why would anyone name a horse after one of them...a childhood pet perhaps?


Hi Regal, I thought this thread was dead so I've taken the opportunity to start myself off again. I must be the only person in Australia that doesn't expound to the Hyperbole and unproven superlatives of the Aust media and racing public. I take nothing away from Black Caviar but the media's claim to be the worlds best sprinter is unfounded.A few figures on a piece of paper saying she is the best in the world proves nothing. I point out that horses such as JJ The Jet Plane, Rocket Man and others go there merry way winning sprint races around the world from Hong Kong to Dubai winning millions in stakemoney while BC races against two bit sprinters that wouldn't get a look in over there. The trainers of these horses ( particularly the Japanese ) have no hesitation in loading up there charges and taking them to where ever they have to. They do not deal in hollow rhetoric. The challenge is now open to the connections of Black Caviar to equal this before I claim her to be the best in the world.
Oh dear lord freaking let it stop already.
One of those two bit sprinters Ortensia (you know who finished 6lengths to BC when she was eased down) finished just 2 lengths off JJ Jet Plane.....Black Caviar is the best in the world.

[regal1]

NO i am not that thick:) At least i can spell Caviar:) And looks like you live in Wagga, i lived there once,the sort of place where you need a real sense of humour to live:):):)

[aussiebreno]

Black Cavier? Isn't a Cavier a rodent of some kind...something like a Guinea Pig or a Hamster?
Why would anyone name a horse after one of them...a childhood pet perhaps?


NO i am not that thick:) At least i can spell Caviar:) And looks like you live in Wagga, i lived there once,the sort of place where you need a real sense of humour to live:):):)
clap clap

[triplev123]

VVV humour claims a newbie

Moves to centre of stage and takes applause. :rolleyes:

[triplev123]

Nothing wrong with Wagga. Tony Hilton lives there and he's a great bloke.
It hasn't done much for Roger Strong's sense of humour though I must admit. :p:p:p:p

[regal1]

Nothing wrong with Wagga. Tony Hilton lives there and he's a great bloke.
It hasn't done much for Roger Strong's sense of humour though I must admit. :p:p:p:p
No Wagga was alright,but am pretty sure i saw that kid from 'Deliverance' playing the banjo there!

[Village Kid]

Hi Regal, I thought this thread was dead so I've taken the opportunity to start myself off again. I must be the only person in Australia that doesn't expound to the Hyperbole and unproven superlatives of the Aust media and racing public. I take nothing away from Black Caviar but the media's claim to be the worlds best sprinter is unfounded.A few figures on a piece of paper saying she is the best in the world proves nothing. I point out that horses such as JJ The Jet Plane, Rocket Man and others go there merry way winning sprint races around the world from Hong Kong to Dubai winning millions in stakemoney while BC races against two bit sprinters that wouldn't get a look in over there. The trainers of these horses ( particularly the Japanese ) have no hesitation in loading up there charges and taking them to where ever they have to. They do not deal in hollow rhetoric. The challenge is now open to the connections of Black Caviar to equal this before I claim her to be the best in the world.


I see your point Mighty Atom and understand but I think the Ortensia form reference is a very valid one. She ran right on the heels of these leading world sprinters in Hong Kong, only a coupe of weeks after being beaten 6.5-7 lengths by Black Caviar at home.

In the last 10 years, if you look at some of the Australian sprinters who have performed exceptionally well on the international stage - Magnus, Choisir, Scenic Blast, even the great TT...none of them were dominant sprinters in the Black Caviar mold at home but more than competitive against the very best on the world circuit. Takeover Target was arguably the worlds leading international sprinter during a 3 Yr period, but during that same time span he won only 5 of his 16 group races at home.

Our local sprinters are very very good in comparison to the rest of the world. And Black Caviar is making a mess of our local sprinters, carrying weight and running time in doing so. On that basis alone you would think she compares favourably with anything, anywhere. The Ortensia HK Sprint result, to finish hard on the heels of the worlds best after being destroyed by the great mare only strengthens that belief.

[Mighty Atom]

I'm watching Ch 9's world of racing. Black Caviar, Black Caviar - its absolutely embarrassing . Talk about sycophants. One just said if she wins this one we can idolise her even more. Can you believe it ? Triple Honour- 3rd (couldn't get out of his own way during summer carnival in Perth) . Yeah, great line up of sprinters.

[regal1]

I'm watching Ch 9's world of racing. Black Caviar, Black Caviar - its absolutely embarrassing . Talk about sycophants. One just said if she wins this one we can idolise her even more. Can you believe it ? Triple Honour- 3rd (couldn't get out of his own way during summer carnival in Perth) . Yeah, great line up of sprinters. Yes 9 group 1 winners,it hurts when you are wrong doesnt it:) you cant go back now can you,you will just have stick to your guns and and keep finding something to denigrate her wins!

[Mighty Atom]

No Regal I will be commenting no more, I will now be looking to her overseas ventures. A lot of our group I winners don't stand up to a G1 winner in GB or France. You only have to look at our G1 winners in the Melbourne Cup. When an international G1 winner appears they are generally superior to ours i.e. Americain. Japan learnt very quickly, once they sent their top horses here ( Delta Blues & Pop Rock ) our horses were demoralised. You might perceive me as being wrong - I don't. I would love to see Black Caviar win in Hong Kong or Dubai or Royal Ascot but that's her challenge. She's beaten all our sprinters so there is no point going on about it, time to take the next step.

[regal1]

No Regal I will be commenting no more, I will now be looking to her overseas ventures. A lot of our group I winners don't stand up to a G1 winner in GB or France. You only have to look at our G1 winners in the Melbourne Cup. When an international G1 winner appears they are generally superior to ours i.e. Americain. Japan learnt very quickly, once they sent their top horses here ( Delta Blues & Pop Rock ) our horses were demoralised. You might perceive me as being wrong - I don't. I would love to see Black Caviar win in Hong Kong or Dubai or Royal Ascot but that's her challenge. She's beaten all our sprinters so there is no point going on about it, time to take the next step. Fair enough Mighty Atom,though you are right about our stayers,well we probably have a few better ones now,our sprinters have always been world class so that is the difference.

[buster]

you've hit rock bottom here MA

aussie have the best sprinters int he world fact
europe/japan have the best stayers in the world

black cavier is a sprinter...so dont try and compare her to what happens in the mebourne cup

[aussiebreno]

you've hit rock bottom here MA

aussie have the best sprinters int he world fact
europe/japan have the best stayers in the world

black cavier is a sprinter...so dont try and compare her to what happens in the mebourne cup
exactly.

[Flashing Red]

[SIZE=2]In the last 10 years, if you look at some of the Australian sprinters who have performed exceptionally well on the international stage - Magnus, Choisir, Scenic Blast, even the great TT...none of them were dominant sprinters in the Black Caviar mold at home but more than competitive against the very best on the world circuit. Takeover Target was arguably the worlds leading international sprinter during a 3 Yr period, but during that same time span he won only 5 of his 16 group races at home. Our local sprinters are very very good in comparison to the rest of the world. SIZE]

I think you hit the nail on the head - we have never sent our very very best sprinters over in recent years - the ones you mentioned always found one better than them at home, yet when they went overseas they were either dominant or performed credibly. I'm sure if Black Caviar went to England she'd make a mess of them. However I think she would be tested in Hong Kong, Japan, Dubai etc.

[mango]

I watched the race on my way back from n.z and thought she went awsome and she rightly deserves the tag of the best sprinter in the world.