7 Heats each Gold Crown & Gold Tiara

[triplev123]

Looks like a pretty good roll-up at Bathurst for the Gold Crown & Gold Tiara, the latter with fields already out, the former with fields due out 4pm this afternoon.
Both Divisions have/will have 7 Heats each and notably there's no Restrepo. I believe he was not eligible? I'd sure have loved to watch the colt race up close from trackside...but in another way I'm kind of glad one of ours doesn't have to go in against him. He'd have been a moral.

[buster]

Tonkin never goes to Bathurst

[triplev123]

Yeh? Never noticed that I must admit. Would have been fun to see the colt step out.

[triplev123]

Here's some stats to ponder.

28 sires and 40 broodmare sires are represented in the Gold Tiara Heats.

35 sires and 44 broodmare sires are represented in the Gold Crown Heats.

[mango]

Interesting stats and to me both races look open this year.

[buster]

Emma has gone and made a liar out of me and has 1 in the fillies

I was going to suggest some tipping but geez it looks a tough meeting

Just a pity it's on that awful track

sandakan lombo would a moral imo

[triplev123]

Interesting stats indeed, surprising and depending on your point of view, verging shocking in some respects.
To be fair though, for quite some time now it has been pretty much the same with each group. There's usually somewhere in the vicinity of 25-35 sires and 35-45 broodmare sires represented. The best head to head stuff comes from reviewing the sires of those originally made eligible & then those who made final stakes payment & noting the sires of those that progressed enough again to make a start in the Heats. For the progeny of some sires initially aimed at Bathurst the drop off rate is really quite alarming while for others their resolute stick-to-it-ness from noms right the way through to final stakes payments and beyond is pretty admirable. I've never been able to get anything particularly concrete from it other than that & in the big scheme of things I'm not sure it means a whole lot because it's just one race series and whether or not similar attrition rates hold true in other 2yo futurity series...the ABC for example, I just don't know.

[triplev123]

Buster, ever since the 1st Crown/Tiara carnival I attended at Bathurst, and that was way back in 1987, I've always been worried about that first turn.
So many horses will make a break or get themselves collected by one that does. One year I vividly remember standing on the outside fence up there about 1/3 of the way around the first turn and alongside Peter Walsh. There was a fair old scrimmage as they went into the corner and I thought his colt was going to go all the way to the outside fence and straight over the top of us both. Admittedly Peter and I were fair sized targets for the horse to aim at...;). As I recall his horse's name was Gold Scott (?). It will be the same again this year. I don't know for sure if it's the way in which the track is built or if the horses experience a general lack of grip in the racing surface or if its a lack of tractibility/education on the part of some the horses or if it's a combination of all of those things, but it happens every year.

[mango]

Tractibility/Education and a horrible 1st turn is a reciepe for disaster. The track surface is normally A1. I think if Bathurst can get a 1000m track you will see more horses paid up for the series.

[triplev123]

Indeed.
Just so long as it's a 1000m track that starts 10 across.
IMO there should be NO TRAILERS IN FUTURITY EVENTS.

[aussiebreno]

Here's some stats to ponder.

28 sires and 40 broodmare sires are represented in the Gold Tiara Heats.

35 sires and 44 broodmare sires are represented in the Gold Crown Heats.

And heres another one. About 70 mares are represented in each ;)

[mango]

I think Bathurst are one of the clubs who will get funds for a bigger track, it will be interesting to see where it goes.

[aussiebreno]

I think Bathurst are one of the clubs who will get funds for a bigger track, it will be interesting to see where it goes.
Bathurst and Wagga are at $1.04 and shortening.

[triplev123]

I've heard a couple of times over the years that there was quite some interest in the old saleyards site at Bathurst. They don't appear to me to have the room to build a 1000m track on the present site ? Will they build on the same site in Wagga breno or will they move?

[mango]

Hi Aussiebreno

It's interesting you say Wagga as it's a club thats gone broke 2-3 time's and had to be bailed out, but i do agree they need a new track as the last turn is shocking.

[aussiebreno]

I've heard a couple of times over the years that there was quite some interest in the old saleyards site at Bathurst. They don't appear to me to have the room to build a 1000m track on the present site ? Will they build on the same site in Wagga breno or will they move?
They will move @ Wagga. Probably out to the university...which cuts off about 10mins for those travelling from Junee/Coolamon/Temora way and hopefully gets the young naives keen for a punt and a beer close to their dorms.

[aussiebreno]

Hi Aussiebreno

It's interesting you say Wagga as it's a club thats gone broke 2-3 time's and had to be bailed out, but i do agree they need a new track as the last turn is shocking.
Too right mate, called some trials up at Wagga where I noticed it the most (partly because no-body is trying but it still an indication); the first to turn for home you could call the winner!
I am only younger and cant recall when the club ever had to be bailed out...I think they got new lights in 1990; meaning they must have been travelling well for a 5 or 10 years before that to make that decision. Which means its been over 30years since theyve been bailed out....or did they sweep it under the carpet that much Ive missed something in the last 15 years?

[mango]

Hi Aussiebreno

I've been told it has been inside the last 15yrs and it was mentioned the leagues club before it went belly up was one that helped out.

[mango]

Fillies heats

Rce 2 - Charm Alarm
Rce 3 - Chiquita Bromac/Lettucereason
Rce 4 - Bronski Firestar (picked that one for Flashing Red)
Rce 6 - Ima Pleasure
Rce 8 - The Magic Of Life
Rce 9 - Dream Runna
Rce 10 - Awsome Belmer

Just a bit of advice don't follow my tips as i'm on a loosing streak.

[nat]

Hi guys

Maybe another good start for a new thread, What are the major harness areas that need new tracks in NSW like SA if you havent or don't live there you would think that everything revolves around Globe Derby and there is very little interest anywhere else in the state but there is. With the new cash flow I could see more racing in prime slots on Sky and taking country/hobby trainers and drivers to the next level of making it a career for this game and bigger and better tracks at several major centres would be a start.

[mango]

Bathurst, Dubbo, Tamworth, Wagga, Young.

[buster]

wagga and bathurst only, shut every other track

[nat]

Do you think one or more of them should have a 1400m track as Menangle making it a country hub maybe Bathurst?

[mango]

Yeah thats a fair call Buster but if you look right into things on average a place like Young has bigger fields pulls horses from Bathurst, Goulburn, Canberra, Wagga, Parkes and so on and has better turn over than Wagga. But it doesn't matter where the 1000m tracks are put someone won't be happy.

[mango]

Hi Nat

1400m tracks are good for the horses and if you are watching them on TV but when there trying to get more people to come out and watch the races i think a 1000m track is plenty big enough. I've been to Menangle and didn't enjoy watching the races as much as Melton.

[nat]

Hi Buster

You cannot and shouldnt shut tracks down and only have a few, you need good tracks in major areas so the small ones can survive and have circuits in each area, Wagga would be a good hub for the south Bathurst/Dubbo central west and you already have Newcastle as a hub in the north that way a good track and racing is within reach of participants and enthusiasts in each area.

[buster]

1400m is too big of a track for the horses that race in the country

those 2 track locations are based purely on that they have alot of meetings there currently

good to see my moral of the meeting sandakan lombo getting rolled at 1.20

[buster]

all those smaller centres outside wagga, newcastle, bathurst are just a waste of money and are disgraceful as far as racing surfaces and facilities go


they are having a trotters day at coolamon, i hope they put some rubber down in the stalls or the trotters will be cut to pieces in the rusty iron or they'll put a foot in a rabbit hole

[nat]

Hi Mango

I like big tracks but 1000m tracks are excellent for viewing and racing (that to be said I like watching racing at GD and GP because race driving tactics are not dead) it is just your major track is 1400m you have only one a couple 1000m tracks and a host of half mile track wouldn't it be nice to give your horse a race or two on the same size track as the metro track before going to town. In Vic. we have say 90% 1000m track and the other 10% half mile track and its good for the punter and trainer to get a gauge on a horse racing on same size tracks. I hope this makes sense

[mango]

I beg the differ Buster you come out and drive a horse on the Wagga track and then go to Young and drive on there track and let me know who has the best race track/surface i'm sure it won't be the 1st.

Hi Nat

1000m would be plenty if a horse can get around that they have know problem with 1400m and i'm a fan of Gloucestar Park but not so much Globe Derby and i suppose that is due to the huge difference in the quallity of stock they race.

[nat]

Hi Buster

These thing need to be addressed in time but once something is gone its hard to get back even the punter, in SA around 10-15 years ago they shut down several small tracks in the north instead of upgrading them leaving only Port Pirie & Whyalla for the whole entire north of the state 2 and 5 hours from Adelaide there was hundreds of horses, loads of trainer and driver and strong enthusiasm for the sport that attended most meetings once they shut the tracks down it nearly killed sport and all of that lost interest owners, breeders,trainers drivers and punters that get handed down to the next generation.

[buster]

It doesn't matter who has the best track ATM because they will build a new one - both tracks are too flat and the top turn at young is awful

Both tracks want bulldozing

[mango]

Hi Buster

Who said anything about the last turn it was racing surfaces you were talking about.

[Don Corleone]

I have been enjoying following this thread. Interesting in the different types of tracks you guys have over there. While I have been to a few of the ones you have mentioned, I have seen the others on TV. Where I live in the deep south there are 13 tracks within a two to two and a half hour drive. Of those 13 tracks, 5 are 1200m tracks, 4 are 1000 and 4 are mile tracks. Nine of thoses are all weather and 4 are grass tracks. One is multi. Each and everyone has a completley different racing surface and all have real different bends. One has a false home straight where it leads you into the next and last straight.
What I like about the selection we have is that there is always a track that suits a particular type of horse.

[aussiebreno]

I have been enjoying following this thread. Interesting in the different types of tracks you guys have over there. While I have been to a few of the ones you have mentioned, I have seen the others on TV. Where I live in the deep south there are 13 tracks within a two to two and a half hour drive. Of those 13 tracks, 5 are 1200m tracks, 4 are 1000 and 4 are mile tracks. Nine of thoses are all weather and 4 are grass tracks. One is multi. Each and everyone has a completley different racing surface and all have real different bends. One has a false home straight where it leads you into the next and last straight.
What I like about the selection we have is that there is always a track that suits a particular type of horse.
But how many meetings a year at each track?
I dont mean to be picky but in a 2/2.5hours radius there is about 5 or 6 tracks around Bathurst and about 5 or 6 around Wagga. Bathurst races probably 100 times a year with the surrounding tracks racing probably about 40...Wagga races 40 with Young about 20 and the others racing about 30 all up. It realy isnt viable for clubs to have 5 meetings a year if the sport in NSW is going to go professional after the money coming into the sport thru the HP sale. The only way those tracks can stick around is volunteers; they shouldnt get anything from HRNSW or Menangle Club.

[mango]

Hey Aussiebreno

On the subject on who races and how many time's just out of curiosity how many Tab meets in the riverina compared to the western districts is there a difference at all.

[aussiebreno]

Hey Aussiebreno

On the subject on who races and how many time's just out of curiosity how many Tab meets in the riverina compared to the western districts is there a difference at all.
Well to be honest I dont the exact figures..Im sure theyd be on the net somewhere.
In the Riverina I think its Wagga 39 meetings Young 13 meetings split (unless they have changed it which they may have as Young seems to get a lot more than 13 meetings). Then Leeton, Albury, Temora, Junee each have one TAB meeting.
in the Western Districts I dont really follow; id be able to name more Turnbulls then horses that race there; but I think Bathurst race once a week and then places like Dubbo and Parkes also race once a week; with the split of TAB meetings seeming to be about 50% but really I have no idea.

Someone mentioned the Coolamon trotting meeting...I doubt it; maybe one or two races. An $8K trot at Bathurst got cancelled on Monday because not enough noms. No Sydney horses are going to come and the Victorians will get lost trying to find the place.

[Greg Hando]

In the Western Districts Bathurst havei think about 44 meetings Parkes and Dubbo have about 16 - 17 each Blayney,Cowra,Peak Hill,Eugowra,Orange,Forbes all have 2 meetings each these are what i can remember but i might be wrong
aussiebreno you say
(It realy isnt viable for clubs to have 5 meetings a year if the sport in NSW is going to go professional after the money coming into the sport thru the HP sale. The only way those tracks can stick around is volunteers; they shouldnt get anything from HRNSW or Menangle Club.)

Ididn't know the sport was going to go professional and if the small clubs are unable to race a lot of people and horses will be lost to the sport forever. Your part about volunteers is the only way they can stick around and they shouldn't get anything from Menangle or HRNSW what do you mean by this

[aussiebreno]

In the Western Districts Bathurst havei think about 44 meetings Parkes and Dubbo have about 16 - 17 each Blayney,Cowra,Peak Hill,Eugowra,Orange,Forbes all have 2 meetings each these are what i can remember but i might be wrong
aussiebreno you say
(It realy isnt viable for clubs to have 5 meetings a year if the sport in NSW is going to go professional after the money coming into the sport thru the HP sale. The only way those tracks can stick around is volunteers; they shouldnt get anything from HRNSW or Menangle Club.)

Ididn't know the sport was going to go professional and if the small clubs are unable to race a lot of people and horses will be lost to the sport forever. Your part about volunteers is the only way they can stick around and they shouldn't get anything from Menangle or HRNSW what do you mean by this
Thanks for the Western Districts racing info!

With the Menangle prizemoney injections and the amount of big time trainers going to Sydney the sport in NSW will turn more professional; it will also turn more professional in the country areas; the effect of having state of the art facilities will see this - just as Victorias professionalism >>> NSW current professionalism.

To run a succesful business; lets say a lawyer firm, you need to make profit. Profit is, simply put, income less expenses. So to make more profit you either increase income or decrease expenses (this Business 101 lecture has a point I promise). If the resident barrister asks you, the boss, for a free paper delivery and coffee each morning you may say yes; as he/she is vital to the business' income. Whereas if the secretary made the same request you might say no; as he/she isnt vital to the business success and keeping him/her happy isnt a priority.

Wagga/Bathurst/Newcastle have substantial populations and industry people central to them. This means when they race they have a bigger horse pool to draw off; which will be exemplified with new tracks and better prizemoney being given to them. (Note: they get these benefits as they have bigger populations for sponsors and can make more profit on their own without help off HRNSW). Those tracks are the barrister.

The secretary is Junee, Lithgow etc .. they have small populations; the industry members that race there can race at more populated areas that are more central to everyone not just a handful.

Its sad news when small tracks are put into recess; leaving some hobby trainers disulussioned but into the future it just isnt viable.

[aussiebreno]

Following on from VVVs post about sires representation. Going to have 9sires represented in the 10horse Tiara final. Art Major being duly represented by Dance for Madi and one of the 2nd place runners forget its name. 7 heats 7 winners 7 different sires

[Greg Hando]

Thanks aussiebreno for your explanation here where i live we have at least 20 trainers in the local area and good sponsors are we to lose most of them if we are to travel to a bigger area like Bathurst and Wagga 2/12 to 4 hours we would probaly lose at least 1/2 of the trainers also the foals they breed to race themselves how are you supposed to try and get more people involved in our industry if we lose the sponsors and trainers small clubs must be kept going for the betterment of the industry IMO

[Greg Hando]

Also with the 7 winner's 3 were out of of non race winning mares and not 1 of the winner's dam had a better than 2 minute winning race record and of the race winning mare's only 2 won a metropilaton penalty race or race's the youngest mare was 5 and the oldest was 20yrs old at the time of foaling ? so does the age of a mare really matter or for that matter does a 2.00 or better mare throw a better foal than any other mare ?

[mango]

Hi Winston

Personally it doesn't matter me what age a mare is but the thing you will notice is that very few people are willing to spend good money on service fee's for older mare's and a lot of buyer's steer clear of progeny at sale's that are out of mare's 15yrs or older. And i wouldn't say that a 2min mare would throw a better foal but you would hope that it would throw a horse with the same or if not better ability. There has been a lot of unraced mare's throw great horses, so what it probably come's back to is how strong the family is and what sought of type is it.

[Greg Hando]

Totally agree Mango but you hear a lot of people say she's too old to throw a good one and so on what they don't understand Genes don't change as you get older and i've said buy a family and you can't go wrong

[triplev123]

I agree. Genes do not change. If you look after them there's no reason why older mares can't keep on producing good horses.

[mango]

Bathurst

Rce 1- Equity Kicker
Rce 3- Hes Magic Red
Rce 5- Grand Stride/Desirable Guy
Rce 7- Soho Valencia
Rce 8- Lamorak
Rce 9- Grouse Party House (Mightymo)
Rce 10- Major Frank (Sorry Triple)

[triplev123]

He'll want to be on his game Mango. The boy is ready to rumble.

[mightymo]

hope you are right mango. i bred hes Magic red as well, so will be nice to have 2 finalists. ( i actually bred 5 starters in the heats!)

[mango]

Your breeding's looking good Mightymo.

[mango]

Just watched the heats again and i must say there are no standouts in either 2yr old division, there all an even bunch compared to other years when there were standouts going into the finals. Draws will play a big part in it but if i had to pick something this far out it would be Dream Runna in the fillies and Grand Stride in the colts. What do other people think of the heats and who do they like this far out.

[buster]

hope you are right mango. i bred hes Magic red as well, so will be nice to have 2 finalists. ( i actually bred 5 starters in the heats!)

better stop selling them then

[triplev123]

Emilio's Artiscape colt, Grand Stride, was a very good thing beaten in the Linden Huntley, he scattered them last night and I'd be surprised if anything beats him in the Crown Final.

[Mighty Atom]

Hi Winston

Personally it doesn't matter me what age a mare is but the thing you will notice is that very few people are willing to spend good money on service fee's for older mare's and a lot of buyer's steer clear of progeny at sale's that are out of mare's 15yrs or older. And i wouldn't say that a 2min mare would throw a better foal but you would hope that it would throw a horse with the same or if not better ability. There has been a lot of unraced mare's throw great horses, so what it probably come's back to is how strong the family is and what sought of type is it.
Totally agree wth you mango, I'd much rather a foal from an average performing mare with a good genetic heritage than from a mare that has had a long racing career. There's been very few mares(and that includes the champions) with extended racing careers that have been hugely successful broodmares.

[buster]

Totally agree wth you mango, I'd much rather a foal from an average performing mare with a good genetic heritage than from a mare that has had a long racing career. There's been very few mares(and that includes the champions) with extended racing careers that have been hugely successful broodmares.

blossom lady, tailmade lombo???

[Mighty Atom]

blossom lady, tailmade lombo???
Yes, thank you buster......very few (and I am talking thoroughbreds as well)

[buster]

Yes, thank you buster......very few (and I am talking thoroughbreds as well)

utter crap

firstly where do you draw the line for 'over raced' horses?
second, how many champion or outstanding mares are there compared to average mares related to something good out there? very very few
and the best 2 mares i know of -blossom lady and tailamade lombo are both outstanding broodmares

its simply a case of numbers,
one outstanding mare has 10 foals suitable for racing, 5 of those are fillies they also go on to have 10 foals, suddenly theres 50 foals closely related to that good mare - compared with 10 of the original horses out of the good mare