Muscle Massive (Prematurely) Retired

[Ponder]

Looks like the Hambletonian winner had just a couple more starts and it was announced that he is now retired and will be sent off to the breeding shed next year. Yawn.

[Diamond Creek]

As an owner/breeder I completely understand the need to protect the value of a horse (especially one with a breeding career) but as a race fan I am annoyed that a few "off" races causes a retreat and premature retirement. I am torn as there is no easy answer

[jammsb]

In my opinion this horse is what I would call a "one race wonder". He was the right horse at the right time. He was the beneficiary of a great trip and a masterful drive in the Hambletonian. There is no doubt that he is a beautiful colt and boasts a great pedigree. However beauty is as beauty does. Moreover he is one of several "good" but far from great colts in this year's three year old group. I can't blame the owners for retiring him. He wasn't racing well. What was to be gained by continuing to see him get beat?

[Joe Fitz]

Muscle Massive won easily in the New Jersey Sire Stakes final and the Dancer Memorial. In both races, against decent fields, he showed the ability to brush to the top to the quarter and close. In the Hambletonian, against a very good field, he left from the six hole to get position, and showed very well down the stretch. He and Lucky Chucky left the field behind, and Muscle Massive had no business overtaking the latter in that race. He didn't sit in and sneak up the rail. Plenty of one race wonders have won historic stakes, but he isn't one of them.

[jammsb]

Then you are free to breed to him. I think I would rather sit back and wait and see.

[jammsb]

If you think that this year's crop of three year old trotters constitutes a "very good field", then I suppose I'm probably wasting my time answering you.

[Joe Fitz]

On too many occasions the Hambletonian field consists of one superstar and a field full of also rans; this year Lucky Chucky, Cassis, Holiday Road, Wishing Stone, Pilgrims Taj and Muscle Massive were all "good" colts who had a shot at winning it. I didn't say they were great, just good.

When it comes to Muscle Massive's potential and desirability as a stallion, we can look at the fact that Holiday Road will be standing in Ontario for $4,500. As well bred and good looking as he is, Holiday Road is no Muscle Massive in those areas. Also, the latter won the premier event for trotters in North America, and was the second leading money winner in this year's 3yo trotting class behind Lucky Chucky. As a son of Muscles Yankee out of a Pine Chip mare he will appeal to many breeders--that's all.

[Thomas Johnson]

Yes I agree that Muscle Massive is a very good prospect for stud and he will appeal to many broodmare owners.
If you want my opinion on quality, one only has to look at the three year old pacing crop this year and you could say that it probably is one of the poorest crops on record. There are only two top three year olds, the rest do not count. Sportswriter could not win a race in the US so he dont count. Then there is only One More Laugh and Rocknroll Heaven who was a decent horse but not a great one. If only they would race a horse like Rocknroll Heaven another year or two then we might be able to say that he is a great horse. Rocknroll Heaven has only beaten his own age group and has never beaten a real horse yet. To go to stud now is crazy for the whole Industry except the owner who has to take the money on offer for stud. We have no real open horses left in this Country and that is why we are going backwards as an Industry fast. We have no heros to keep our interest in the game any longer.

[Joe Fitz]

Thomas, I agree with your take on the 3 year old pacers. I think Rocknroll Heaven would be a top colt in any year, but it's a long step down to One More Laugh, and a longer one down to the rest.

As for the open horses, Shark Gesture, Won the West, Foiled Again, and probably Hypnotic Blue Chip, were the only legitimate FFA pacers this year. Shark Gesture has been retired--I believe-- while Won The West and Foiled again are geldings, so I assume they will be back. Hypnotic Blue Chip is a complete horse, but I assume he can make more money racing than he can at stud. Add One More Laugh (gelding) to the equation and things don't look very promising next year either.

With the breeding business on shaky ground due to so much uncertainty over Sires Stake programs and racing in general, I would think the track might prove to be a better option for many owners when it comes to marginal stud prospects.

[newschool]

Yes I agree that Muscle Massive is a very good prospect for stud and he will appeal to many broodmare owners.
If you want my opinion on quality, one only has to look at the three year old pacing crop this year and you could say that it probably is one of the poorest crops on record. There are only two top three year olds, the rest do not count. Sportswriter could not win a race in the US so he dont count. Then there is only One More Laugh and Rocknroll Heaven who was a decent horse but not a great one. If only they would race a horse like Rocknroll Heaven another year or two then we might be able to say that he is a great horse. Rocknroll Heaven has only beaten his own age group and has never beaten a real horse yet. To go to stud now is crazy for the whole Industry except the owner who has to take the money on offer for stud. We have no real open horses left in this Country and that is why we are going backwards as an Industry fast. We have no heros to keep our interest in the game any longer.

I can understand that his lack of exposure and racing results puts him at a disadvantage with breeders, but my opinion is that just makes Sportswriter a better value for those that use him. His 2-year old season is a little hard to dismiss since he established himself as the most successful freshman son of Artsplace - by a full 4 seconds. Perhaps it wasn't well communicated, but Casie Coleman took the blame for mistakenly creating the quarter crack problem that haunted him during his 3-year old campaign

[mango]

Hi Newschool
Sportswriter will get a good book here in Aus, they have promoted him extensively and there is a lot of interest in him. He is the fastest 2yr old to come out here and Artsplace stallions have done a good job. He is the most successful freshman son of Artsplace but not by 4 seconds, Sportswriter went 1:49.4 as a 2yr old and there could be quicker but Grinfromeartoear went 1:51.6 so thats a bit over 2 seconds.

[jammsb]

I don't think it was a quarter crack that brought about Sportswriter's retirement. It was a combination of two factors.
(1)An inflammation of a tendon.
(2)The fact that the deadline for shipping a stallion down under for the forthcoming breeding season was imminent. If they had waited for the tendon to heal, they would have gone beyond the point where a down under stud career for this season was possible. The people with the down under money were there with the money in hand. Thus the decision to retire him was reached.

[mango]

Hey Jammsb
Is it true that Sportswriter only won on the one track and would he of matched it with Rocknroll Heaven.

[triplev123]

Man. Had a brain snap. First off said he won The Meadowlands Pace but he won The North American Cup. For some reason I thought he won stateside. Maybe he didn't.

[jammsb]

Sportswriter did not win the Meadowlands Pace. He won the North American Cup.

[triplev123]

Looks SO MUCH like Artsplace if that's any help.

[Fullerton]

Sportswriter only won at his home track of Mohawk Raceway in Canada which is a 7/8ths .

[newschool]

Hi Newschool
Sportswriter will get a good book here in Aus, they have promoted him extensively and there is a lot of interest in him. He is the fastest 2yr old to come out here and Artsplace stallions have done a good job. He is the most successful freshman son of Artsplace but not by 4 seconds, Sportswriter went 1:49.4 as a 2yr old and there could be quicker but Grinfromeartoear went 1:51.6 so thats a bit over 2 seconds.

Oops, my apologies, you are absolutely correct. I should stop relying on a memory that's not as good as it used to be. As a 2-year old, Sportswriter was 2 seconds faster than Grinfromeartoear, 3 seconds better than Artiscape and more than 4 seconds faster than Art Major.

[mango]

Looking at Sportswriter only winning on one track, If he had not of gone a miss do you reckon he could of footed it with Rocknroll Heaven on all size tracks.

[triplev123]

I think they basically swapped chairs. Sportswriter was an excellent 2yo, his record says what he was, while Rocknroll Heaven has been/is an absolutely awesome 3yo as his efforts this year have proven. Clearly Sportswriter had the wood on Rocknroll Heaven at 2yrs but a year later things swapped around. Had Sportswriter raced on through at 3yrs I'm certain that by season's end and mayeb a fair bit sooner than that, Rocknroll Heaven would have had the wood on Sportswriter. I'm not prepared to say that one is/would have been a better racehorse than the other because they each have so much to recommend them. If you really had to find a defining line then the only way you could reasonably split them would be by confining the comparison to type. It's fair to say that Sportswriter is clearly the more impressive of the two type-wise but why wouldn't he be. As I said before, he looks more like Artsplace than pretty much any other son the great horse ever produced.

[tamarind]

Personally I would like to see all horses race as 4 year olds but I understand why owners of those that have potential in the breeding shed want to shut them down at 3. Is it that they are trained and raced too hard at two and three and the potential is too high for them to look bad at four becuase they are all nursing nagging lameness issues.Are the tracks too hard creating curbs and legiment and hoof problems.There are no answers to many of these questions but it seems the norm for the to quit at 3.

[mango]

I think racing at 4 would sought the men out from the boy's, personally when i'm looking at a stallion for my mare's i like to see that horse race in the open ranks. Horses such as Artsplace and Art Major raced at 4 with great success and it also goes to show how strong and sound Art Major was as he had a big 3yr old season of 31 starts for 20wins and 5 places and then come back at 4 for 11 starts 8wins 3 places.

[triplev123]

Strong and sound. You know Mango, I've heard 'The Bill & Monte Show' called a lot of different things over the years...but that's a new one. :-P

[mango]

Hi Triplev123
Sounds like a person with your wealth of knowledge should be running the show, i don't mind you bagging my post but if your going to reply to it you could at least explain your reason for not agreeing. And sorry never heard of the ''Bill and Monte show'' if i wanted the one line smart ass remarks i would just comment on harnesslink (main page) and wait for (lol) to reply. This is a forum for people to discuss harness racing and put ideas out there and get replies not to bag other people's comments. So please if you have know sensible remarks go else where.

[admin]

Dave Sanders wrote an an article on Harnesslink today along similar lines:


----
You can bet your bottom dollar that the Australasian interest in next season's Prix de l'Arc will be at fever pitch, with their new superstar So You Think having been sent to Europe with the great race his goal, and the benefits will flow to the Australian and New Zealand breeding industry, much in the same way as it did after Balmerino raced in the 1970s.

Contrast this to the harness code where another potential superstar, Rock N Roll Heaven has been retired to stud to statisfy theinterests of the breeding industry, and to drive another dagger into the heart of the horseracing industry.

It is no coincidence that the racing codes which are struggling the most, have this in common, that their stars are pulled from the stage just when they have piqued the interest of a fickle public, who have many other competing entertainment forms, which know the value of star power.

It is the equivalent of David Beckham or Richie McCaw being retired to the coaching ranks after their first brilliant season, to maintain their skills knowledge in a coaching capacity.

While it makes perfect sense from a breeding perspective, it is lunacy from a sporting perspective.

Last year British flat racing, which is struggling and in dire straits, had the first true champion in probably 20 years. Sea The Stars was a shining light in a tunnel of darkness with his brilliant wins in the Derby and the Arc De Triomphe.

And just when the public had started to take interest again in the flat racing game again, he is gone, wrapped up in a bundle of euros and heading for a stud in Ireland.

The same with Rock N Roll Heaven - just as we are getting to know him, and to marvel at his brilliance, he is outta here to satisfy the demands of a few wealthy breeders, while Jo Public punter gets another reason for going elsewhere to a sport that gives back to its fans, not flips them the bird.

And in a sport which is nearly devoid of superstar status, and in a country in which sports rely almost exclusively on star power (take Tiger Woods out of golf and Michael Jordan out of Basketball, and look at how well the sports fared) - you've got to ask why.

It is not that way in two very successful corners of the horse racing game, Britain and Ireland's National Hunt and European trotting, where their stars continue for up to ten years, and the punters and the general public get to know them, love them and keep coming back in droves.

Last year's Cheltenham Festival was packed and interest was the highest its ever been, simply because two stars of the game, Denman and Kauto Star, were to renew a rivalry that had been building up over four or five years. That neither won was part of the appeal, the delicious uncertainty which keeps punters coming back.

In France and Sweden it is quite common for horses to race until they are ten or morein top company, and many will serve a few mares while still racing.

It is probably why the Australian thoroughbred industry thrives, in that they do not rate a horse a champion until it has shown itself to be successful at Weight For Age. Even the latest star So You Think will keep racing, and keep bringing fans to the sport - even if it is in Europe.

Indeed, the Australasian breeding industry will benefit far more than it would have So You Think had retired to stud.

Maybe the powers that be in harness racing should think about that fora moment.

For Rock N Roll Heaven's retirement is an indictment on the shortsightedness of this industry.

Sports is about star power, and it is time that the breeding side of the operation pulled its head in and started thinking about the good of the game and not the size of their bank balances in the short term.

In the long term, if there is no-one watching your sport, they won't be wanting your horses.

Dave SANDERS (Harness racing breeder and journalist)

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=85647

[jammsb]

I don't disagree with Mr Sandler's article. However I wonder if Mr Sandler owned Rocknroll Heaven and he was handed the chance to acquire guaranteed millions of dollars on the one hand as opposed to taking the risks associated with racing and dealing with a fickle breeding industry where two or three consecutive losses could halve the value of his horse, what he would do? Perhaps he would do exactly what he is preaching. If so, I say bravo to him. I am neither extraordinarily wealthy or impecunious. However if I were presented with the opportunity of virtually guaranteeing my family's future I think I would likely cash in my chips when presented with the opportunity to do so. If I were some rich oil sheik, where a couple of million here or there would not make a difference I would likely do otherwise. Its easy to tell others what to do with their wealth or resources.

[triplev123]

My fault for factoring in at least some level of assumed knowledge on your part there Mango.
The Bill & Monte Show is of course Bill Robinson and Monte Gelrod, the two rather infamous and hopeless recidivist chemical offenders who basically co-trained Art Major to grow not only one leg but two after the horse left the barn of a real horseman in Chris Ryder. Incidentally whilst he was there...even on the best day of his life...the horse could not best Ryder's other trainee, McArdle.

As for the article above, it is yet another shameful example of someone with ZERO FINANCIAL STAKE in the outcome telling people who do what they should be doing with their horses.
Not only have we seen the ridiculous idea of returning to limited books in the Southern Hemisphere raise its empty head but on top of that now some feel it necessary to tell the owners of these top three-year-old colts that they should be racing them on at 4-5-6+. What a terrific outcome those two pearler ideas would serve to produce. A given horse races on until he's 7-8 or even 9 or 10 and then retires from the track to serve a book of 140 mares. That's going straight to the Pool Room.

[mango]

Well then thanks for that info it would of been good without trying to be a smart ass but i suppose for someone like you that would be impossible lol.

[triplev123]

Hey Mango, do you think that maybe you could refrain from further speculation about the mental capacity of my gluteus maximus? That'd be nice.

[k8burger]

I have to be honest--I am far less impressed with Muscle Massive than his big brother and even more so when you note the elder stands for half the price in a pretty great program (Ontario). Just my two cents but rest assured none of our mares are headed that way. Whereas one of ours is in foal to Muscle Mass.

[triplev123]

I can't go past Muscle Hill. In the very same way as the on track brilliance and subsequent retirement of Christian Cullen spoilt racing for me for quite some time by way of it making me see everything that followed as pedestrian by comparison, I have never seen a Trotter that was as talented as effortlessly fast as Muscle Hill. That is one absolutely incredible horse.

[jsday]

They have to do that with him because he isnt good enough to go with the older trotters and he most certainly not in the top 2 3yr olds either.....To race him would be to devalue him....

[Vance Hanover]

My fault for factoring in at least some level of assumed knowledge on your part there Mango.
The Bill & Monte Show is of course Bill Robinson and Monte Gelrod, the two rather infamous and hopeless recidivist chemical offenders who basically co-trained Art Major to grow not only one leg but two after the horse left the barn of a real horseman in Chris Ryder. Incidentally whilst he was there...even on the best day of his life...the horse could not best Ryder's other trainee, McArdle.

As for the article above, it is yet another shameful example of someone with ZERO FINANCIAL STAKE in the outcome telling people who do what they should be doing with their horses.
Not only have we seen the ridiculous idea of returning to limited books in the Southern Hemisphere raise its empty head but on top of that now some feel it necessary to tell the owners of these top three-year-old colts that they should be racing them on at 4-5-6+. What a terrific outcome those two pearler ideas would serve to produce. A given horse races on until he's 7-8 or even 9 or 10 and then retires from the track to serve a book of 140 mares. That's going straight to the Pool Room.

I do not know who this post belongs to but it is full of discraceful remarks about people that are not true. Who says that Chris Ryder is a real horseman. My experience is that he is not a real horseman. Sure he has been a decent trainer and had several decent horses but to compare him with Bill Robinson is a joke. Bill Robinson was and is probably the greatest horseman that ever lived. Chris Ryder is a trainer thats all. As for comparing horses I will leave that till later.

[triplev123]

Not true? My friend, I fear that you've become delusional.
Bill Robinson spent more time on the sidelines than Tony Siragusa for Fox Sport's NFL coverage.
The greatest horseman who ever lived...indeed. Gimme a break.

[jammsb]

Perhaps the greatest chemist in the history of Harness Racing. Definitely not the greatest horseman.

[Vance Hanover]

No you are both wrong and delusional as he still is the greatest horseman that ever lived. I think I will start a thread just on Bill Robinson.