Standing starts

[David Summers]

Since the introduction of mobiles starts I have come to really dislike standing start racing and would never consider wagering on them.

Many are often no more than a "dog's breakfast" with sometimes half the field completely out of contention before the first turn , especially in trot races.

I agree that the idea of handicapping is a good idea and usually gives the lesser horses some chance ( if they don't just stand there at the start or break in the first 50 metres) , but are they a good betting proposition ? From my observation over many years , betting on most standing start races is often like flushing your money down the toilet :-(

I will preface this by saying that the recent standing start race at Menangle with 17 starters was one of the most exciting and competitive races that I have seen in quite some time. I think all the horses were on their absolute best behaviour and was a great spectacle.

Please don't bite my head off if you disagree and am not trying to force my thoughts on anyone. It's just a purely personal opinion and I was wondering what others think.

[triplev123]

Standing Starts for Pacers = Prehistoric stuff. I can understand them being used to handicap Trotters but other than that, no thanks, Give me mobile starts any day and twice on Sunday.

[montana]

i was thinking the same thing yesterday when the first race at albion park was a standing start , since it was a public holiday and the gallop races were on everywhere i see it as a chance to showcase harness racing to a wider punting public and we open with a standing start race. i am not a fan personally either i think we have moved on from those days .

[aussiebreno]

The only time Standing start races should occur is in the Globe Derby monty race.

[David Summers]

In a lot of the standing starts I see the starter seems to often get impatient with some horses scoring up.

Sometimes they are 10 metres or more away from their mark , some not even facing in the right direction and he lets them go!! One race I saw last week ( I will not embarrass the starter by naming him , although I am VERY tempted ) two horses were sideways facing the infield and away they went , he let them go!! Both broke immediately , one heavily supported , more punter's money flushed down the toilet.

Why don't the driver's complain? A fair start is a fair start. Why should horses be put at a disadvantage because of this. Exactly what is wrong with all mobile racing? Sure there will still be horses breaking but at least they are given an even chance upfront. In many standing starts some don't have a chance even before the race starts. Their race is over when the strands are released.

Imagine that attitude in any other sport, a totally unfair start, there would be uproar, but we in the harness world just seem to put up with it , week in week out.

[aussiebreno]

If the horses dont stand there dont wait for them; let them go. It disadvantages the horses doing the right thing if you wait for the ones playing up imo. I've never held a starters licence though.
If your horse breaks it is its own fault; it was still given a fair start; or if a horse jams into it its after the point of no return.
Yeah some can say but its tests a horses manners and the trainers ability; but who gives a flying f***; I dont!!!!

[David Summers]

As a harness punter and harness fan I most certainly do give a flying f***. If the driver is attempting to simply straighten the horse up and get them to face the front and the starter lets them when they are side-on then that is not a fair start by any stretch of the imagination. Punters who study the form , put their hard earned on , never have a chance.

It's all conjecture really. The VERY simple solution is to simply say a fond farewell to ALL standing starts and go all mobile. So what is so bad about doing that ??

[DAZZA]

Its pretty simple. If people are whinging about punters money going down the toilet from stands? Dont back a horse that doesnt step? If your not sure, dont bet! I like the stands, good for the slower ones. Horse like The Red Rocket. Mobile, useless on the mark he is now, stand, in almost every race he goes round in up to his eye balls. They have their place. Seen many a favourite knocked over coming out of a mobile. Punters will continue to cry.

[nat]

I personally like a good standing start, and if you do your form and watch the races like most good punters do you memory bank the good stand start horses and wait for that right day when all the stars align, the reason that the stands these days are a shambles is the horse are not educated enough for these races everything is go go go mobile then you throw in a stand and the horse is saying go go go now you want me to stop what's this all about. Stands have their place its all about trying to provide a race that give all horses in the race an opportunity to win an a open betting race for the punters look at Blacky's Hunter Cup, Flashing Reds NZ Cups evens Auckland Reactors first defeat in that stand those that knew he was not the best away took the gamble and backed All Tiger. Stands are another avenue for horses to win some money take stands away and we might as well just race front row 1609m races only boring yawn.

[triplev123]

The REAL insanity comes into play when by way of having initially & almost exlcusively bred our mares to juvenile (2yo & 3yo) performed US & CAN born sires that have raced over the mile from mobile starts & nothing else...we take the resultant progeny and beyond 2yrs we race them over ever increasing distances until such time as they're aged performers and we send them off from a standing start in totally jam packed fields & over absurd race distances up to, including and in some cases exceeding 2 miles. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused::confused:
For mine, this is the same as expecting a Golden Slipper winning colt to go on & win a Derby at 3 and a Melbourne Cup as an aged horse. Of course, nobody in their right mind expects that of the TB's. Why we expect the equivalent of our beloved Standardbreds is beyond me.

[aussiebreno]

TripleV you might want a word with the team behind Weekend Hussler.

[David Summers]

Also I would not exactly say that "mobile only" "one mile only" former US speedster Mr Feelgood has exactly disgraced himself over very much longer distances here in Oz. I think he had no problems with a standing start here either. I'd be very happy indeed to have one of my mares mated with him in his first season at stud.

It's really mostly all in the training , not always in the horse's breeding or if their sire was some "one mile only" young speedy US sire. Breeding is fine but without the right trainer and handling in their careers , often it makes no difference who their sire is.

[mango]

Not a real big fan of standing starts but i did enjoy watching the big field at Menangle run around the other wk. I disagree with good horses getting back marks of 30m+ in GRP 1's if a horse is good enough to start in a Group race it should be on equal terms.

Hi Ozninja

Mate Mr Feelgood already has weanling's on the ground here in Australia it was done by frozen semen whilst he was still racing/spelling i was offered to a straw at a very reasonable price which i declined, my decision not to send my mare to him might come back and bite me on the but one day but the stallion i chose was from the same family anyway.

[David Summers]

Thanks for that info mango about Mr Feelgood. I was not aware of that but I don't know how I missed it :-(

He is certain to be a big success here. When Sky used to broadcast races from the Meadowlands twice a week , almost every day he sired a winner. One day he sired a treble and on another trifecta'd one of the major races. Can't go wrong here if owners give him support , and I can't see why they won't. Proven outstanding racing ability on both sides of the world at all distances ( in Australia) , even up to nearly two miles! Amazing horse , great training effort to have an entire like this extend his abililty over much longer distances here in Group 1 company.

[mango]

Hi Ozninja

He wasn't advertised at all, they contacted certain people with certain mare's to try and give him a good start. Yes he has a few winner's over there from limited number's and he is from a good strong family which should attract breeders.