I am sick of watching, races trying to work out the winner in a close finish and the winning post can't be found? There are lot of tracks where it is impossible to line up the horses with the wining post, IF there is one! What is going on?
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I am sick of watching, races trying to work out the winner in a close finish and the winning post can't be found? There are lot of tracks where it is impossible to line up the horses with the wining post, IF there is one! What is going on?
Yeh, that annoys the Hell out of me too.
I always have trouble with that when I watch Harness Racing at The Gold Coast. They seem to pace well on by the camera before they actually reach the line.
Maybe one of those projected things ala the 1st down line they put up on screen in the NFL would be of some use?
I remember when we use to have 'em and we had just as good an idea as the caller who had got up. I think clubs reckoned they looked a bit old fashioned and didn't fit into the new slick racing experience they put on for the trendy crowds they try to attract. You know the type, skirts up to there and tripping over their high heels, giggling and full of bubbly trying to impress the young bucks...you know those ones too, full of courage as they yahoo and yehah all through the race and then when they cross the line they say, "Who won?" Sorry mate, couldn't see or hear over you. But God, thats a great looking finish post eh!
Now they build ridiculous monuments like at Canberra and Flemington gallops, Menangle (I dont know how Kevin gets it right, but he usually does). I always fall for the inside horse at Eagle Farm even though history says the outside horse always gets it.
But I agree with you Steve, just give us a winning post we can see, not set back 3 metres.
You would also think in this age of technology etc, that the race camera would be located exactly in front of the finish line?
Check out the winning posts at Shepparton and Melton in a tight finish.......
Shepp is the worst. It is actually placed going into the 1st bend and not in the straight.
Melton is a stinker. I don't get how they could have got it so wrong seeing as they built the track from scratch. Is it just me or does the finish line run diagonally across the track?
Its probably because of this.
http://www.harness.org.au/images/video-wmv.gif
Jesus Lucky, first time I've seen that. Have just realised after watching it ten times, still don't know what won the race!!
Was the finish painted in invisible ink?
The winning posts at Boort today and Launceston this evening. Nice and simple. The camera may not be lined up directly on either of them, but geez its a bit easier to work out the result without having to contend with one of those monumental monstrosities. The K-I-S-S approach still works for me.
Some of these clubs deserve the "Liverpool Kiss"..........surely the basics of a spectator sport such as racing are that you want to see who finishes in front of who! If it keeps going you will need a computer program to calculate the result using a 'scientific algorithm"...........get the camera mounted for Sky coverages directly infront of the winning post.....so you can see the winner, unless it is a decidely close finish and a camera is needed..........e.g. at Newcastle the horses are virtually coming at you head on....it is difficult to see if a runner is making up ground, and then they quickly go across the line! I agree about Melton it looks like the winning post angle is not perpendicular to the winning post.........it looks like the swoopers get an advantage! Why don't we get a "stump camera" like at the cricket........with so many races being crammed into a sky coverage, you are left waiting for a photo result while 3 other races are run!
A lot of the camera angles on Sky are absolute crap...no question at all.
MENANGLE - when runners are approaching the finishing line it loooks like they are racing in front of a graffitti sprayed concrete wall, like on the freeway as you drive along, the winning post is in there somewhere! The winning post is definitely not as highly visible as it should be! The race camera is past the winning post, so you need to tack on a bit for the outside horse in a close finish.......Fred is "doinmabest" to call the winner first go in the call!
The Gold Coast is the one that always gets me. They're well inside the final 16th and you think that you're home and clear...but there's still another 20-30m to go. Shepparton is a bugger like that too. They just start to enter the turn & the post appears. Someone else has mentioned that already I think? As an Industry we could do a lot as far as having projected on screen visual aids for the PubTab/Club/TAB/Stay at home Punter is concerned. The NFL is the USA is excellent in that regard. I'm sure the TB's tried it somewhere here in Oz relatively recently? I'd have thought that Harness Racing would lend itself more readily to that sort of technology....especially so night-time wise.
You are right!...........at Menangle with such a long straight, if you are on the leader it takes an eternity for them to reach the finishing line!.........Put an overlay on the screen to show the track at the 200m, 100m & wnning post.......let's see what that looks like!
2 other things need mentioning.........1. In the past week or so the NSWTAB are cutting off betting well before a race actually starts, often they are running without my investment.......with the pools being so small, I leave it until late to bet, I don't want to take $1:30 something that should be $2:50, and they don't bet fixed odds on all meetings.....yesterday at Warragul in the standing starts, they cut off betting well before the horses were even in position!..........someone has a "trigger happy" finger in their at the moment.......if they don't fix this "Betezy" here I come!............2. also the studio people need to keep punters updated as to when a race is going to start, especially when another race is in progress.....they have the benefit of being able to see what is going on at each track.....too many times a race starts whilst the previous is in progress........we need the the small "picture in picture" screeen running all the time..........Or perhaps they should use Sky 2 whenever available to show what is happening re the next race to be broadcast. Some "fine tuning" is needed!
Strangely enough, I have more trouble going back the other way now, as in working out if they've got a chance to get there on the smaller tracks. I've actually got Menangle worked out pretty well. Unless something really dies in the arse and goes from a blaze to a walk in a couple of strides I can tell reasonably well if it is going to figure in the finish or not. I think it came from watching a few drivers having success there by tipping to the outside around 600-500-400 out and sweeping around them from back in the field. An on screen line at the final 16th would be pretty handy.
Further, it is in the interest of NSWTAB to leave it until as late as possible to cut-off betting on a race, how many times have you been in the TAB and everyone wants to get on at the last minute, and you are left holding your betting slip in your hand, and they have jumped??...........I have tried using the machines on the wall, but when you are having miltiple bets it can take forever.....I just think some streamling is needed!
If they actually paint the lines on the track......some of the drivers will actually know when to take off!..........lol!
Similarly, Jimmy Brown once said that some horses get intimidated by the long Menangle stretch and need to have pictures of the winning post painted on the inside of their pull down blinds.
They could also use a different coloured marker peg to show the distances!
You could take that a step further and if they reach the 3/4's in a really fast time a real occasion could be made of it by giving Fred a remote control button for one of Vince Silvestro's fireworks mortars placed strategically upon the infield.
I can almost hear Fred calling it now. "They sweep past the three-quarters in a dazzling one twenty and two and you know what that means folks...a substantial discharge is imminent". :p
You could also have a barber shop pole for the winning post, and when a record is broken the light goes up and down the winning post and the light stays on top! Don't forget fireworks at race meetings might be no-no!
What about on the screen they have an overlay of a comic drawn horse and driver (similar to that of Trackside at the TAB's) that goes at the speed of the track record sectionals for each distance for FFA's and classic races etc, so we can check out how good a horse is compared to past champions etc! Just like the line they have at the swimming. There are so many marketing opportunities being missed out on!
Gee I am getting old in the early miracle miles they had lights set at the 2 minute standard each quarter so you could see if they were inside the two minute mark...... yes just checked the licence I am getting old....back to the future stuff here.
On a serious note the gallops had a similar problem a few years back with so many tracks punters not knowing where the winning post is and fixed it by painting the inside rail a different color, this could be could be easily fixed at virtually no cost by painting the pegs from say the 100m mark a different color.
At the Grafton gallops they painted an orange line across the track adjacent to the winning post and that certainly helped in picking the winner. The grandstand is offset from the post and it really is a deceptive angle, but the paint assists no end...apparently orange doesn't spook the horses in anyway, but don't quote me on that.
TFS, I hope Sky execs do peruse these pages because everything you have brought up is valid criticism of their product. Too much idle chit chat between close events does nothing to inform the audience and usually results in events jumping without warning. Freedman bangs on about the gallopers, and treats harness and dog events with contempt. While he's banging on about TB races ten minutes away, we are missing out on vital information on IMINENT harness events.
A lot of good points Steve, all free of charge for Sky execs to ponder, that would assist them to produce a better product for us who are TOO far away from events we cannot attend.
The orange line works with the dark green background (turf) I am pretty sure it will not work in Harness just something else for them to jump and gallop.
What about...as the horses reach the final 16th...we get a crowd-rousing blast from some old shagger hidden up the back somewhere & playing his heart on a Wurlitzer Organ...ala the NHL Ice Hockey games? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb19d08Lnec
Freds already got form there Steve...yesterday when Backmanturner was going across the line to win, Fred quipped "and Backmanturner goes into OVERDRIVE". They are the calls we love to hear!
The horses dont have to jump it if they use a "virtual finish line" as part of the graphics imaging. You only see it on the tv. It's not painted on the ground. It is similar to the black line that goes in front of swimmers if you have ever seen that indicating world records / games records etc or whatever.
No! Mick Coconuts, already used that in his form analysis on Aust Harness Racing website, and the tele! But it suits! Personally, as an up and coming novice race caller, I would have said Bacmanturner is "Taking Care of Business" this afternoon!........(Fred, keep that one for next time!) Perhaps, Fred needs to do a little more research before he does his calls! I like Allan Hull down in the Riverina........he is a classic with some of the things he comes up with!
With the greatest of respect Teecee the line Brad is referring to was painted onto the turf surfaces it was very popular in all Aussie states with the gallops for about 5or 6 years in the early 2000 but more and more tracks phased it out. I can not recall the last time I actually noticed one, I am pretty sure Grafton does not even use it now.
I understand you graphics argument but in Australia we have so many different vision providers to sky I doubt that too many would have the financial depth to supply this type of production at course level.
I do not know enough about TV production to say if it can be added at sky racing or not.
I am just suggesting an alternative to paint on the track interfering with the horses' concentration but I take your point about many on course service suppliers to SKY Racing.
It is however possible to do it in studio. We used to do it around the Canterbury tracks like Addington, Riccarton, Ashburton..etc.... but we were the sole pics supplier.
Certainly don't wish to be disrespectful to Allan Hull, because, lets face it, it is a tough gig calling a race accurately, but sometimes I am scratching my head and thinking the race I am watching bears no resemblance to the race being commentated.
Don't forget Allan has just come through the trauma of a recent "bomb scare" whilst calling a race, this would certainly affect one's ability to accurately call races.......the emergency authorities actually commended Allan highly for his assistance in evacuating patrons from the Leeton Trotting Track!