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Alycone/Adam Fairley suggested this in another thread. Quote:
I believe we could consider changing our racing season to a calendar year.
With the Inter Dominion in early December we could run the Breeders Crown Final potentially the week before XMAS with all state sires races in October/November.
This way we could attract crowds to the track in the warmer months of the year.
Thoughts
My initial thought is that it would be weird having a racing season that doesn't align with the breeding season and the horses birthday (assuming that Adam is not also proposing a change to that). With the major races over in December what would our juvenile horses do for the rest of the season?
December is way too early for 2YO races under the present breeding season arrangements.
If he is also advocating that the breeding season be changed to the calendar year, a gamebreaker would be the barrier that would create for dual hemisphere stallions.
about 25 years ago the Standardbred breeding season was changed from a commencement date of August 1 to September 1, the main reason being the fertility rates in mares and in many places August foals were being born in the snow. Significant research was done with regards to the overall performances of foal born in August Vs those later as many people were a bit "hung up" about the advantages of an early foal for juvenile racing. The research showed that foals born later actually had better lifetime stats than August foals.
The change was implemented, our cousins in the thoroughbred world were invited to come along but declined and I'm pretty sure most people would agree that the change was indeed a wise move.
To move the breeding season to January 1 would bring difficulties like foals being born on 40 degree days meaning we had gone from one extreme to another, so personnally I think a hell of a lot of research would be required and where would that research come from with so few foals born January 1 onwards.
Foals being born in January is one thing keep in mind we now have a breeding season where foals are born from September through to Jan/feb, so about 5 months, if you had foaling starting January then foaling would end say May?
If you left the breeding season as is and changed the racing season then I think racing 2 and 3yo's for big stakes before December 30 is short changing the horses and their connections. An alternative would be extend their "year" to the following December and then you have 3yo's racing for 2yo classics and 4yo's racing for 3yo classics and that, to me would be open to ridicule.
Not saying we should just keep on doing what we always have and an adjustment that assists our game in any sustainable way would be welcome, just highlighting some of the things people need to take into consideration.
Cheers,
Dan
Interesting discussion. if the breeding season were left as is would you not think there may be some creep where the majority of foals are born later in October and November. Not that I have bred that many foals, but to date I only have one that was born in September, all the others have been born later in the year, so, if their first year happened the following December many would only be 14 months or thereabouts old. The situation now is that many 3yo's in the early season are actually still only 2; and it doesn't seem to be a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
It would be interesting to see if it could work because the feature races calendar is very lob sided at the moment
Regards
Mark
Leave it how it is. If you change to calender year you will have little or no juvenile racing. There is more than enough young one's busted now by trying to get them going fast early before they are mature enough go to calender year and you will have nothing to race later on.
Much interesting discussion on radio RSN this morning around noon, with involvement from trainer and breeder, as well as a prominent Kiwi:
Changing the harness racing season to the calendar year....start on January 1 , the same as in North America.
Many positives mentioned, including enabling 2yos to race for 12 months compared to 7 or 8 ( first Aussie 2yo was in November I think).
Being able to stagger the key races across the states and NZ in a better way seemed to meet with approval .
Looks to have been discussed widely but recently.
Thoughts?
Hi Noel, I merged the above as I knew there had been some previous discussion.
Once upon a time NSW Racing Manager Adam Fairley used to communicate on this board - strangely (IMO) he deleted everything
We are lucky to have Vic Communications and Media Manager, Cody Winnel, as a poster nowadays
It's very interesting Noel, I can't find that debate on RSN, Would it be possible to put the link up on the Forum please. Changing the racing season does seem to have some merit, The spacing of the races would be fantastic but I really think that we need to leave the breeding season as it is, As Trevor mentioned, We still must have the Nth American stallions available and January/Febuary is far to hot for new born foals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaptor
Richard
It was on Nadia Horn's program yesterday morning on RSN ( Sept 22) around 11:45 with Cody Winnell, and Jason Bonnington from HRV. They had Shannon NOxon Breeder Assn, Lance Justice Trainers, and also Cran Dalgety on from NZ and I think LAnc
Thanks Noel, Very interesting discussion and quite a few positives but as the Panel stated, We would need all of the states and NZ to get on board.
This was raised for discussion last night at the HRV Consultitive meeting at Shepparton. The breeding season would stay the same but the racing season would change from January 1 to December 31. There are scheduling problems with the Breeders Crown. It is too close to the Vicbred Sires Finals and IMO this years attendance at the BC was very disappointing. The weather in August does not help . If it was to be held in the warmer months ( say Nov ) attendance would pick up and HRV could build a carnival around the event. This initiative obviously needs further discussion but provides a win/win situation on many fronts with the opportunity to review current programming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard prior
G'day Anne,
I take it that we would be racing 3YOs in November for 2YO finals?, please don't get me wrong here, I am not a fan of Juvenile racing of the degree we currently have in this country, but if that is the case then the problem ( in my mind) snowballs to the point where we are lucky if maintain any credibility with our peers.
I have never been a fan of 2 yo racing and have witnessed in my 47 years involvement in the game continued pressures from certain breeders to further extend the availability of racing for 2 yos....like it or not, I see this as a move to do quite the same thing, which in my humble opinion is yet another nail in the coffin of this great game in the name of making someone's bank balance appear more healthy (in the short term)
cheers,
Dan
An interesting debate.There are so many sides to it.
I too cannot really get my head around the idea of basically considering a 3yo still a 2yo in November so then I thought we could just accept that it is a 3yo event so leave the year as is and call it an early 3yo event.
I also appreciate Dan's point about not wanting to push juveniles and what I have suggested above as an alternative is in the main still going to attract horses that were up and running in their 2yo season nevertheless they may not be quite as rushed. Unfortunately it would seem that we do have to balance the welfare issue with attracting owners which in itself requires balancing patience.
My preference however would be to leave the season as is but completely upend the prizemoney allocation for the various age groups in the Crown. This yr the 2yo's was worth $288k and the 3yo's $174k. I would consider making the 3yo's worth $300k+ and the 2yo's $150k (and making the 4yo's races worth even more than they are now)
I am interested in the issue of timing as I thought the end of August good for not clashing with any other sports major events
Getting off the point a little - in my submission on the HRV strategy plan, I am suggesting a set date race (which of our Big races I will leave for others to decide) that can be marketed as our equivalent of The Melbourne Cup and I even thought the last Sunday in August may not be a bad date. It is lofty stuff, I know, but it seems to me that most people that follow harness, do so because they were introduced to it/went at a youngish age (something else I tackle in my submission) whereas a huge % of the population take an interest in the gallops without having gone as kids ALL because of The Cup (and its government, media, ... support) - it is a holiday, we went in sweeps etc etc. I think it will take decades but we have to aim at coming as close to this phenomena as we can. I do not think the rotating Inter can do this
I do not want to distract from the 'season debate' so I am going to put the 'black' part above in the HRV strategic plan thread too so if you want to help me refine it please post any replies to the black part of this post in the following thread instead
http://www.harnessracingforum.com/sh...e-until-Sep-30
"I also appreciate Dan's point about not wanting to push juveniles and what I have suggested above as an alternative is in the main still going to attract horses that were up and running in their 2yo season nevertheless they may not be quite as rushed. Unfortunately it would seem that we do have to balance the welfare issue with attracting owners which in itself requires balancing patience."
I'm at a loss to understand why you folk think it would be pushing a 2yo if changes were made as suggested. It is quite clear the breeding season will remain as it is (commencing September 1), and as it happens now, foals will be born any time from late September until early January, most however coming into the world between October and early November. The suggestion, if I understand it correctly, is that whilst they may already be a few months old their age won't commence until the 1st January after their birth. If it isn't that way then that is the way it should be. In this way most of these foals will actually be 26 to 27 months old when they officially turn 2, a far better proposition than what we presently have when see horses classified as 2 when they are actually anything between 20 and 22 months old.
I really don't have a problem with this as primarily it is to the foals' advantage. Additionally, it allows for far better programming of our racing season in that we can take full advantage of the better weather months rather than the system we have now where our best juvenile racing is conducted between June and August. Don't forget, New Zealand bred horses are technically 3 when they contest the 2yo Breeders Crown and that's never been a problem.
Regards
Mark
I think we understood the proposal Mark but the only difference will be a month or two. At present I don't think 2yo racing starts until December so instead it will start in Jan (1 month diff) and at present the Crown is held on the last day of Aug and the proposal seems to be to run it in November so say 2-3mths diff. Sometimes I think it comes down to your feelings on whether 2yo racing should be rated so highly when all horses are never going to be up and going
+1.... Totally agree with every point you've mentioned Mark but we would need all of our states and NZ to come on board with this change, If the change did come about yes, We could have the Breeders Crown run later in the year, Maybe if it was run around Melbourne Cup time we could take advantage of the extra people in town that have come to watch the great race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Croatto
I think some of us are forgetting what will happen to the young horse that is competitive in the feature races that would then be strung out over a longer racing season under this proposal, it's really a bit too simplistic to say they are a bit older than two so they will handle it better, what about the fact they will be kept in a racing preparation for longer? What about the horse that is not a genuine 2yo but is kept going because he might pick plums later in the season?
As usual the debate is about racing and not about the best long term prospects of the horse.