Just having a look at Menangle's new site and see the list of track records http://www.menangleparkpaceway.com.a...ckrecords.html
Comparing the sexes records is interesting for this thread and discussion.
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Just having a look at Menangle's new site and see the list of track records http://www.menangleparkpaceway.com.a...ckrecords.html
Comparing the sexes records is interesting for this thread and discussion.
Thanks Bailey, sort of backs up what we have heard about the difference between S/Bred genders, but can someone find any credible information around times in the T/Bred world? We all know the thoroughbreds are no way near as "hung up" on times as we are ( something that continues to annoy me)
Whilst I don't know the answer I don't believe the WFA scale of weight in thoroughbred racing is the reason like some have suggested. The 3 best mares in recent times and possibly of all time are Sunline, Black Caviar & Makybe Diva. I doubt anyone would argue that?
All 3 won handicap races carrying well above WFA and on multiple occasions. The best thoroughbreds, male or female, are almost expected to win handicaps carrying weights in excess of the WFA scale to be considered champions. Many still argue horses such as Lonhro are not champions as they couldn't win major handicaps carrying weight.
The situation has certainly changed over my lifetime. As a youngster Robin Dundee and then Stella Frost were as good if not better than the boys. Right through the 1980s and 1990s there were plenty of mares that dished it up to the boys in Nz. From Hilarious Guest to Armalight, Delightful Lady, Bonnies Chance and Blossom Lady to name just a few, the best mares were more than a match for the colts. But from the turn of the century the colts in the main have had it to themselves. Adore Me as a five year old will take on the boys on the grand circuit next year but she is the exception rather than the rule these days
Thanks for that Rod, how could I miss her?, but you know what the message is, there are far fewer mares in that top echelon than colts and geldings, in particular, as Viv pointed out, in recent times.
Maybe the ability to carry weight and thus win top WFA and Hcap races is the difference between the codes in producing more champion mares. Maybe size is a factor in ability to carry weight and I am thinking a lot of the open filly Tbred champions are built like colts. Then with Harness is pulling weight considered much of a factor and if not big mares have no advantage. LOL I am not even convincing myself
Great question Grant.
Remember folks, Grant mentioned 'dominant', not just competitive (apologies if some of those horses mentioned were in fact the best of their time, they were well before my time). In the twenty years I've been following am I right in saying 2 trotting mares have been dominant......Pride Of Petite & Sumthingaboutmaori?? Think they both started fav in Inter finals + other G1s. Sure haven't seen a pacing mare do similar.
Cheers
Hi Brent, Yes it is a great topic posted by Grant and it's certainly another of the mystery's of the harness racing game. As a small time breeder, I would prefer that my filly's raced against their own sex during their careers and to race against the boys at G1 level, A filly or mare would have to be truly outstanding against her own sex. Can't quite remember if Elect to Live started favourite in the Aust Derby or it's Group status at the time but, She was outstanding and ran the boys off their legs to win.
A great discussion, especially bringing up all those wonderful females.
With the advent of same sex juvenile racing we may not see the return of a dominant mare. Significant prize money can be earned without a filly needing to compete against the boys before she turns five. That is the big incentive for knowledgeable buyers to look at fillies. Perhaps there is the hype surrounding stallions during yearling sales time that flows through to the colts on offer.
Taking a quick look at a couple of this season's 2yo's, a filly like Rosie OReilly, race 10 Melton, 4 Apr 2014 I'd imagine would be more than competitive with the boys if given an advantage like the Slipper fillies. Would the thoroughbred calculation of 1.5kg = 1 length be appropriate considering the weight has to be carried the entire race. Would 1kg be equivalent to 10 metres start?
I think another significant difference between the codes is a filly can focus on one distance range through out her career in the thoroughbreds. Of course the males can too but wonder what the result would be if that was the case in harness racing, and considering WFA.