Controversial Kev again but how can it be good for our struggling industry to see so much money go across the ditch?
Add in the fact that it makes many think purchasing NZ horses makes more sense than breeding Oz
I know they are not always this dominant but if we were doing a harness 'balance of payments' between the 2 countries, I know which one is streets ahead
The following factory has scheduled an extra shift tomorrow to cope with a rush of conversions
Once again the majority of it sailing away tonight
once again ....
What were the NZers singing in the bar at Redwood Day
Taking most of the Breeders Crown money
SERIOUSLY - it has to be hurting the Australian industry doesn't it?
Not necessarily Kevin, whilst its never good that prize money goes OS the Kiwis have started buying at the Australian yearling sales, so some re-investment is happening, in particular with Mark Purdon. Hopefully that continues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
I really do appreciate that Mark and I suppose it comes down to where they spend their prizemoney. I probably would not mind as much if it was a different NZer winning most of it
Important to remember the Kiwis contribute about a quarter of the overall Breeders Crown prize pool and of course for the finals we only see the best Kiwis for their age group.
Futurity series are of course different to the way stake money is usually put up in that the pool these horses are racing for is actually made up of the initial fees to nominate for the Breeders Crown.
If I'm being parochial then yes, would be nice to see the Victorians dominate of course!
But I also think we saw some genuine "freak potential" horses this year. Hence the short-priced favourites.
Cody I have no problems with kiwis coming over and racing and winning our races,it's called a competive world. But one thing the kiwis have over the Aussies in the crown is the way it's set up (and it did benefit a horse I bred). I find it totally unfair when the kiwis just have a walkover to advance straight to the semi final about five weeks from the finals although Waikiki beach qualified in Sydney about a month ago. The locals race in full fields and only the winner goes through which makes it bloody tough on 2yo to race 4 weeks in a row . Surely make them all come here and qualify , or if you have one a group 1 or2 race you are automatically qualified for the semi . You won't get any more from nz under this way. When the heats are in vic and there's 12 spots left the first 3 go direct to the semis 2 weeks later . Have repacharges just the winners go through . It's probably not the perfect solution but having 2 horse heats are a joke,
Agree with your view that 2-horse heats are unsavory and I think finding a way to change that in the future will probably become a priority. In the review that occurs with all the big meetings and carnivals I'm sure a lot will be discussed to try and improve the series for the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone george
But I also think we saw some genuine potential-freak horses this year. As Josh Dickie said tonight, "I think from yesterday's meeting we'll see at least one future NZ Cup winner..." No matter how the heats were run I'm confident most of yesterday's winners would be the same.
I agree with Kevin. It's not just the Breeders Crown either , it's all our big races. HRV keeps increasing the stakes for big races and more than half the money goes to NZ. I would like to see big race prize money frozen and normal race stakes increase for 4 or 5 years . This would spread the money more evenly and stop so much going to NZ.
Mark Purdon makes Australia look like mugs again. I bet he is cross about Itz Bettor To Win running second and costing him a clean sweep in Vic and NSW
Just a rough calculation, M Purdon has won races worth $2,500,000
in Australia during January and February.
Probably once again rueing a 2nd spoiling perfection LOL
We are talking about 2 countries worth of horses and trainers
Cannot think of such domination at this level in any code and as we know it is a somewhat regular occurrence.
If he did not have that little Blue on his record the world would be spruiking him as a contender for greatest horseman of all time
And again tonight, he plunders the big Vic Oaks prize
http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...ic#MXM16041606
An unbelievable strike rate
I sometimes wonder whether MP is the only person making Big money out of harness racing
Quite right Kevin but at least Western Australian harness racing put a stop to that with Chicago Bull in the WA Derby beating Let's Chase The Dream on its merits and he's one of Purdon'/Rasmussen's top horses having beaten Lazarus twice. We obviously have to try a little harder or alternatively, something stinks in the state of Denmark.
Reading that Dairy prices in NZ have fallen by 50% in 2yrs. I am now sympathetic to any raiders who have a dairy farmer in their ownership. This one looks like he needs a bit of love
Share the love Kev, Aussie cow cockies aren't sleeping easy atm either.
Maybe with this new found recognition of the grass roots participant HRV, at least, should follow Sheed's lead.
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/spo...eabbc2e9ed3f23
Or Cody might be able to wangle Vaughn Lynch a subscription to the Weekly Times? Not sure if Vaughn brought up the tiered system over scones and tea during his rural tour.
They take 4 of the big ones again - dam
http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...X280816&ms=vic
Of course they do the same in NZ - I cannot think that it can be good for NZ either
http://infohorse.hrnz.co.nz/datahr/results/110832rs.htm
They won the 3 biggest races on Auckland Cup night. Before this night they had already won more than the next 4 on the NZ Premiership Table (and of course this does not count the Inter either)
They have now won the first 3 legs of the APG Grand Circuit with 3 different horses - with the WA Pacing Cup being the next leg, it may be the only chance for another stable to win something
http://www.harness.org.au/news-artic...?news_id=31994
Not sure where to put this but this will do...good read
http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/01/14...-too-brightly/
what shits me about this article is its angle that the trainers made the horses, that the horses stood no chance of being champions without the trainers. A horse as good as Dream About Me or Lazarus or Blacks A Fake could have done just as well with my Dad, with Purdon/Rasmussen, as bloody Joe Blow. They make it seem like Purdon/Hall/ETC are some sort of horse whisperers. it's just not true, instead its a self fulfilling prophecy. Give a trainer a good horse and it'll win races. Give a trainer lots of good horses because he won with horse A and he'll win more races and will be given better horses. Gve a trainer the best horses because their great horses are winning and suddenly they can demand only the champions.
Give purdon or Hall or whoever a chance to pick yearlings in a sale with a $40k cap of their own money vs my dad or Joe Blow or whoever and let's see who is the better trainer.
goddammit it makes me angry. Wealthy owners a trainer does not make. Except it sadly does.
#QuarantineGate I trust
I am with you Katie - success breeds success, you do not have to look any further than how David Aiken was given Hector
As for them being the best trainers by a margin - I also think that there are dozens of trainers just as knowledgeable as them
As for the 2005 indiscretion - it will never be forgotten and I find laying the blame solely on the deceased to be very convenient and unsavoury
I thought the article was quite fair and summed up well by the author. Sounds like not much credit is being given to the all stars team. They are renowned as being top horse people especially Mark Purdon who apparently has the best eye for horseflesh in the land. I don't always agree that you give a top horse to any old trainer that the horse will continue to win big races that's just not true and it is dreaming if you think that. Yes, they have plenty of money behind them and that helps big time. Unfortunately for anyone who is not associated with this team or their horses in some way and I am one of them..........bad luck.
I dont think anybody is saying 'any old trainer' PatQuote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Jate
Kev...Those words weren't used but "bloody Joe blow" in that post IMO could be described also as "any old trainer" or words to that effect, basically implying that a anyone could do it. I am sure I did not misread that or miss the implication.
I see that now. Correction: I am not saying 'any old trainer'Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Jate
In Katie's defence - a lot of trainers could have looked good with horse's of the calibre of those three
Most definitely Kev, I do agree with that. Although the top trainers have to be given their due on the odd occasion. I don't see many articles or forum posts where it is described as a "Great training performance" by a trainer after winning a GP 1 or other (I could be corrected on that one) It is usually the driver who will get a mention. So I think those who write articles for the harness world are aware of the fact that the horse usually makeths the trainer and not the other way around. There are exceptions to this of course.
Personally I applaud MP for being dominant and winning "everything". Hopefully it inspires others to try harder. I bet ya $2 that the Bonds were looking at ways as to why the Halls were dominant, thought about it and then set a plan in place and now look where they are! Hopefully there a more than a few stables across Australia that have a "rich" client or two who are at this moment ARE actively plotting the downfall of Mark Purdon. I know if I had squillions I'd run amok PRIVATE TRAINER etc etc. Once I was so sure I was winning one powerball and I'm out of here jackpot that I daydreamed about buying the entire catalogue at the Perth yearling sale all 100 odd. However I did not win so cannot plot anyone's downfall BUT I CAN DREAM and if I do hee har
Not even Boort is safe :eek:
http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...ic#BTC27011707
The Purdons' have taken pity on Australia/Vic and have no runners in the last 2 at Melton tonight (nor the 3rd race or they would have been looking at driving or training 8 in a row)
http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...X280117&ms=vic
His 4 year old, Lets Chase The Dream won the last at Menangle breaking 1.50.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
AS per post 32. I cant work out what the handicapper has done in the group 3 trot race but the kiwi horse was gifted this race due to its 20m handicap, connections must have been laughing their box off even before the race was run and won. Someone may be able to explain it in this forum.
Interesting thread. While jealousy appears rife at the Purdon / Rasmussen success last night demonstrated how superior their horses are - and they as trainers.
The local 3 year-olds are just so-so this year; Motu Meteor is a nice horse but not one I'd rate as a genuine Derby colt in any other season. Jacks Legend started favourite over Vincent at Addington on Show Day - Vincent blew him away! Interesting comment on the TV - whoever it was said Vincent wouldn't have been in the top 5 3yos in the stable at the start of the season. Stupid comment - he won his only start (beating Ultimate Machete easily) before injury put him out. Was to have come here for the Australian Gold. Now is payback time, the Derby looks his to lose.
Lazarus is a bona-fide champion already and he will no doubt be remembered for many decades. At Menangle, the only horse to have beaten him TWICE won going 1:49.9 - Chase the Dream. How he gets assessed as a C3 is beyond me. Then again, the greatest crime a horse can commit in NZ is to be consistent and win races! The handicapping system ensures their careers are brief.
Somebody mentioned previously any trainer could win with Allstars horses. They probably could, just not with consistency and we tend to send our horses around to often. Check out the careers of all the Allstars team and you will see they are sparingly raced, eg, Smolda 64 starts, 50% win rate and rising 9 years! This can't be done without good, patient owners of course. Look at the depth of experience in the sport most of their owners have and you get a feel for what I am on about. No syndicates of 20 drinking mates from the local footy club who just want to see their colours go around. Just plenty of business people not devoid of a dollar and, usually, prior success with good horses.
Then there are the trainers and staff. No mugs allowed, obviously. Their training methods appear highly advanced. Mark has long been known as a perfectionist and Blacks A Fake did not achieve what he did just by going jiggy-joggy for half an our every morning with two hopplings and a day off every week. Nat is a great trainer in her own right and not one to tolerate pussys. A very brave trainer, indeed, one who takes an Allstar cast-off with the intent of improving them.
So, great trainers with incredibly good facilities and staff, plenty of impeccably bred, high quality yearlings coming through every season with cashed-up, patient owners who understand the pain and disappointment that can occur appears to be a large part of the stable's success. The horses always look great and appear fitter than many of their opposition. Any ordinary run appears to be forensically examined and you never hear weak excuses. And some will say luck, I say they make their own.
Good luck to them all, they are enjoying the times of their lives!
On one of your points, we have horses trained in NZ and they don't not race for lack of trying. there are just NO races for them! we don't want our 2yos racing aged horses. The NZ handicapping system seriously sucks if you have a less than champion horse
Agreed - the man is a genius and planned both of Smolda long term injuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Showgrounds
This is from Greg Hayes twitter.
Last 3 seasons Mark Purdon has had 143 starters in Australia. 87 winners and 35 placegetters for $4.75 million in stakes
That is a 61% win rate, when you consider that there would have been a few times when they had 2+ horses in the same race, I think their success race would be close to 66%
or 2 out of 3 !
And we are pretty much talking about the Listed races!
Makes all the other trainers look like mugs and although a few are local buys (like Vincent) it makes you wonder whether it is worth the risk of having anything other than a NZ horse :confused:
I think it is more about the trainer Kevin rather than where the horses are bred. Smolda, Waikiki Beach and Vincent underline that, as does Mark's willingness to buy Australian bred yearlings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
I don't like seeing Australian industry funds being pilfered by Kiwis, but it softens the blow when his owners (quite a few who are Australians in any case) reinvest so strongly at our sales.