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It was expected that the Summer program was going to be made a little less crowded and now the Vic Cup will be run mid October. The reduction in prizemoney from $400k to $200k is an almighty whack but I did say that David Martin is guaranteed to balance the books
http://www.harnesslink.com/Australia...run-in-October
Reduction in prize money Group races may could lead to recession in New Zealand
Just a slight reduction in prizemoney so not to take the gloss off other Grand Circuit events. Like 100% reduction.
Don't know David Martin but my betting is, as a boy, he had a poster of Malcolm Turnbull on his bedroom wall. A classic example of rubbish spin that just demonstrates HRV is in trouble and assumes its clientele are a bunch of mugs.
And, if nobody challenges him, we are!
Trevor, if you are near Shep or Mildura, they are the last couple of chances to hear DM's presentation. At Stawell he listened and noted all questions/comments, I don't think there were any mugs in the room, plenty of people wanted to hear a different story and would like to have been more vocal but simply could not argue with the figures (he has inherited)
It was suggested that Gp 1 stake money could be reduced (for more $7k and $5k races instead of $3k) and even though he mentioned the change coming for the Vic Cup, he said that we have to have the carrot/dream of the Big races - he does not want to reduce prizemoney. For the present he is first and foremost an accountant trying to right the ship - this has included a reduction in HRV expenses
As the CEO of an organisation Mr Martin will be acting with the knowledge and support of a board. As has been the policy of the Forum NO such personal attacks will be tolerated on any of the Forum boards. Have your say on the issue but leave the personalities out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Showgrounds
Mod
Attacks? You are kidding me. That is my frustrated comment about how the new broom is sweeping the industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by teecee
Of course ***** ****** , as CEO, is just spreading the word on what the Board has decided. Tell me, TC, where the positives are - I cannot see any.
If cutting a premier race's stake money in half to maintain base stakes at levels they were some years ago then the industry is in real trouble.
And Kev, I am in the polar opposite direction geographically to where the CEO has taken his road shows. Not an option so I must trust what I read. And what I read in the media release is the old pea and thimble trick - except there is no pea!
And, TC, I only compared the man to the Prime Minister of Australia. I did not name a pig after him; don't know the man and understand he is just the hired gun. But if announcing the moving the Victoria Cup to October for half the stakes as if it is a positive is a big stretch. Might as well as shifted the Kilmore Cup back to its traditional date and left the Victoria Cup well alone.
Successive Boards in Victoria have taken great delight in ruining the history of the sport over the past three decades by chopping and changing the dates and status of races such as the Hunter Cup (remember the A G Hunter Memorial - all $25,000 of it?) and the Winfield / Vic Health / Victoria Cup. In the process, the sport has lost its following.
Trev, DM is a newb who is really telling it as it is. I went along never having heard him before and I came away impressed by him albeit saddened by our position
I may be a little concerned that he is obsessed with the bottom line right now but he inherited a HUGE problem - he is just stopping short of saying that we are in "real trouble". I think he said that if we continue as we are now we will be a basket case (my words not his) in 5 yrs. Our share of turnover on June 30 is the magic date that determines our share of the joint venture revenue from the TAB. From memory, I think he showed that our contribution of TAB turnover was about 14% but it recently slipped to about 13%. This could result in a reduction in our funding by $1m.
We already have a huge debt to service, from memory (which is not always good) our interest payment alone is $1m and our principal payments $1.5m. We are supposedly asset rich due to the parcel of land that we own around the Melton complex but this was an old tip and realizing its potential is proving a lengthy process.
Trev you must be in the East of the state and I brought up how Melton has not only lost Melbourne but exasperated the plight of the East. I asked about the last Strategic Plans aim at revitalizing Cranbourne ( I hoped as a Metro twin for Melton) and I think it is still on the drawing board but I certainly remember the opinion of some attending Stawell, expressing the difficulty of getting through Melbourne to Cranbourne
I think I am right in thinking that the shift of the Miracle Mile has contributed to programming changes in Vic
You're right, Kev, that he is a new boy and it is a crying shame the industry has been run by successive boards that have put all its eggs into Melton. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during the decision making processes that resulted in (a) a 5 furlong track when industry participants pleaded for larger; (b) the track being positioned so that participants and spectators at premier meetings in summer months get a great view of the sun - and not much else - when looking up the main straight; (c) a not-so grandstand without a roof, oh never mind - that is compensated by wet southerlies pounding in during the wetter months; (d) not building the much promised training complex; (e) building the whole hog at a location not served by pubic transport; and (f) saving a heap on steel by building a stable complex with a roof about a metre lower than it should have been. In other words, they built a hot box when the horsemen needed an Esky.
In hindsight, HRV could have just taken over Beckley Park at Geelong, spent a few million and been none the worse for the experience. At Melton, it seems accountant-types and marketing-types got their way over engineering nous and horse sense. And every industry participant will be worse off in the long run. NSW, by contrast, continue to develop a classy racing and training facility at Menangle. Melton locals at least have a spacious pokies venue to spin their money on.
Yes, getting to West Gippsland venues - Cranbourne and Warragul is much more tedious now than it was a decade and a half ago. Warragul, not so much being a day club as you travel against the traffic both ways. Cranbourne is principally a night club these days which gives its own set of challenges. I'd be interested to know what galloping participants think getting to night racing at Cranbourne and Pakenham.
Of course, Cranbourne and Warragul are only moot points these days as our "headquarters" should have been at Keysborough. Unfortunately, the knockers of that project got their way and sold of the land the board had purchased under guidance and foresight of the late Graeme Cochran.
Boy oh boy, do we need a dozen Graeme Cochrans now. Urgently!
Attack or show your frustration with the policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Showgrounds
Attack or show your frustration with the organisation.
You cannot attack individuals for the rights or wrongs as you feel fit of a policy or organisation.
Harnesslink is not going to get involved in issues of defamation. That is why there are rules to this forum to which you agreed to abide when you signed on.
Your comparison is clear for all to see within the substance of the post. Defamatory comments by insinuation or innuendo is still defamatory.
Like I say. Feel free to discuss, attack, or show your frustration re the ISSUE but leave the individuals out of it.
We have been down this path many times. (In fact it is so long ago I can't remember the last time. I should thank and congratulate members who have followed the rules through many sensible, mature debates.)
My fault. Obviously a 100% reduction in stakemoney is a good thing, especially when announced in such a positive manner by such a high ranking official in the employ of a Government-appointed board.
My, we have come such a long way from when the "industry" was a sport, run mainly by hard working and passionate volunteers. Back then you could think for yourself. Now, thanks to a concept loosely termed freedom of speech, we have others doing the thinking and rationalizing for us.
Ain't life grand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Showgrounds
G'Day Trevor,
Oh dear, you have thrown the cat amongst the pigeons. I personally don't agree with this, Melton has to be included somewhere surely.http://www.bettingpro.com.au/categor...20160801-0006/
Good point Rod, It was announced today in Vic that there may be a massive population expansion into Melbourne's Western suburbs which is the home of Melton, this area will be massive. As a matter of fact there will be more people there than what there is left in NZ. A final decision is expected soon. Is this not a golden opportunity for HR VIC to jump all over this? They can make it the new Addington/Menangle which are going gangbusters at the minute. Of course you need excellent Management, showgrounds has highlighted some very good points in his post about inadequate construction at Melton. Cutting back racemoney is the same as sacking employees in a business-this is the easy way out and not sustainable.
Are you being sarcastic Pat? (It is already fairly massive and has been one of Vic's biggest growth corridors for some years now - a defence that HRV has used to justify deserting Melbourne, particularly the East)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Jate
Sorry Pat, I did not know about The Sun's supposed news
As a person who was born and bred in the western suburbs - when Melton had the Golden Age Hotel and not much else to offer on a Sunday drive for freshly baked bread and a bag of apples in Bacchus Marsh - I know a bit about the growth of the west. Yes, there has been plenty in the news this week about future plans for the growth of Melbourne, none of which is likely to occur in our lifetimes. Few these days would know that where you drive off the Deer Park bypass where it joins the Western Highway is pretty well where Neville Gath's house once stood. And the only "spring" that came to mind at Caroline Springs was a tiger snake springing up from behind a rock when you walked through the paddocks.
Admittedly, that was more than 30 years ago when Springvale was the geographic centre of Melbourne. Dandenong was considered the last "suburb" east of Melbourne, now the urban sprawl spreads another 30 km east. One an only wonder what would have happened to the sport had Keysborough been developed. Perhaps, HRV would now be considering selling the site for something in the vicinity of what the NSWHRC got for Harold Park.
Melton is roughly 5kms further from the CBD than Dandenong. Its major problem remains public transport. Melton is on the Ballarat trainline, the station being a fairway from the middle of town. The line west of Sunshine is not served by metropolitan electric trains so even Deer Park misses out on services the south-eastern suburbs take for granted. Reliance on the West Gate Bridge, with few viable route options makes the commute to and from the new estates in the west a nightmare. Unfortunately, we have a government set to place eve more infrastructure and traffic flow around the 40 year old bridge. This, after ripping up the contract "not worth the paper it's written on" for a trifle sum of $1.1 BILLION dollars. That project, had it been built, would have allowed traffic OUT of the western suburbs, a fact that seems to have been overlooked.
Talk of a new "super city" near Werribee (front page in today's Herald Sun) is utter bull tish without massive expenditure and expansion of existing road and public transport networks.
None of this is going to help HRV's pressing situation in the short term. No doubt the Board is sitting on a real estate gem when the time comes to trade-out of Melton. The big question is will the industry still be viable when that time comes? What you have at Melton is basically the Ballarat track in a party frock. However, Ballarat might be a cheaper option as it is successfully run by largely volunteers and people who have never forgotten how to smile. Unlike Melton where everybody is on somebody's payroll and most have never learnt to smile.
Call me a grump, but I don't fall the all-will-be-rosie line.
That list was interesting Rod but all over the place (no pun intended) How would you include Burnie, if simply being picturesque is enough then they would have to have included Yarra Glen. He also showed that there is no logic to his list when he said it was a coin toss between Bunbury and Pinjara for number 8 and yet the loser did not get the 9 or 10 spotQuote:
Originally Posted by Mighty Atom
Gday PatQuote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Jate
Melton has been growing at a rapid rate for a few years now. Told the fastest growing place in Oz at the moment. There are huge new estates being built both sides of the freeway if you head in from the east on the way to the track. People from the new estates (if looking for tea and a night out) have to drive past the track if heading into the township. Guess the trick will be how to 'capture them' I guess. Hardest part of that I reckon is that Harness Racing is an outdoor activity and trying to get people involved in being outside these days for anything is getting harder and harder. Take a look at the crowds at Ethiad Stadium for the AFL. Less and less and the joint got a roof!!
Don't know about inadequate construction. I go every week and it appears adequate for the number of people that turn up 99% of the time. Don't seem much point in spending money on things that aren't going to be utilised? People won't turn up because there is a roof on the stand... again look at dwindling Ethiad Stadium crowds. There's a thing called the SkyBox at Melton. It is indoor and probably one of the best views you get of harness racing anywhere in the world. But for most nights of the year it's empty.
Can't comment on the employees that lost their jobs other than to say it's very sad some good people are no longer about. But the prizemoney thing that people keep commenting on.... there is no pot of gold or endless supply of money. Kevin went along the other day so will be able to correct me if I'm wrong. Basically it works like this. The pool of money that comes from the TAB, Ubet, Corporates, etc is divided up amongst the 3 codes based on TURNOVER. If you look at the numbers you will see that more racing means more turnover. The dogs have used this to get a bigger slice of the pool. Put more races on get more turnover. Get more turnover get a bigger cut of the 'pie'. Dogs race for less than us, have less in the pool per race than us, but get a bigger cut. Why?? Cause they put more races on.
You won't increase turnover putting races on with more prizemoney. The pools on the $3.5k races are the same (bigger even) than pools on $10k races. Some of them 3.5k races bigger than the pools on the country cups! The 3.5k races (at least) fund themselves. Can put them on and make a 'profit' on them which is used to pay for the races where a 'profit' isn't made eg. Vic Cup. Put on more races you are losing on, you are going to under pretty quickly. And it snowballs... less races, less turnover, smaller slice of pie.
In the last 3 months with all these extra races...field numbers have increased, turnover has increased. Means we get a bigger slice of pie. So more money to increase prizemoney. Supplementary races have given horses that would have been retired a chance to keep going. And means an extra race and more turnover. More turnover...bigger slice. Can't keep putting on more races that you lose money on. Downward spiral.
Need more racing to increase slice of pie. So are you going to do that by running more races you lose on or more races you make money out of?
They could try investing in a neon sign with a pacing horse on it (like the Dandy ham pig or Skipping Girl) to attract interest from passing traffic, with changing text to highlight the various offers/events that take place there.
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Originally Posted by Toohard
Yep, a good old fashioned neon sign. I remember (grey matter permitting) Globe Derby had one on the highway when I first went there in the '70's. I drove around the joint when I was over there earlier this year and I don't reckon they could afford the electricity for the sign. Even if they could it would probably black-out South Australia (it's happened for less). The poor old joint looked derelict and is badly in need of a few hundred litres of paint.
It's a moot point to say people won't go to Melton because if there was a roof the "grand"stand. I won't go there because there isn't one! A chicken and the egg argument. And I am trying to see the value in your statement, Paul, that "you won't increase turnover putting on races with more prizemoney". I guess the horses in the $3500 are generally poorer - how does an afternoon meeting at Globe Derby fair on turnover? Bottom line - poorer the stakemoney, poorer the horses, poorer the spectacle, poorer the image of the sport.
Based on that, I reckon I am going to start training some of those bloody big, musclebound flies you get down my way. See which breed climbs up the wall quicker. Should suit serial gamblers with long pockets and short attention spans. Sky could probably cross to the flies on Sky 1 just as the field scores up for the Hunter Cup! (Time for medication, now bed!)
Some good points all around. The CEO will have a certain timeframe to get his act together and reduce debt. But you most definitely have to get more people to the races and if you cant get them in a major growth corridor you will never get them. I would like to see what would happen if you got an extra 1000 people to Melton on a Friday night and how much money they would rake in- if it was $10k there is two supplementary races paid for. I am not convinced that racing for less money is the answer. From the owners viewpoint paying the big time trainers is not cheap either and you have to win races, it does not get easier especially with the prizemoney hitting almost rockbottom.
I would like to see the comparison in turnover between Friday night at Melton and Menangle on Saturday night to provide some evidence about increasing turnover and why one may be better than the other.
Kev, I have been through Yarra valley a couple of times during my Victorian stint a few years ago and I am sure it didn't have an ocean 70 metres from its racetrack. But then again it was about 10 years ago so things may have changed :)
Yarra River in flood, perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Jate
One thing I forgot, Melbourne's fastest growing area is the City of Casey. Which is east of Dandenong. Berwick, Narre Warren and CRANBOURNE are the main suburbs. Population this year is forecast to be 311,000 which is up from 252,000 in 2011. The forecast for 2041 is 527,000. Reckon Graeme Cochran had his head screwed on right.
Give me the mountains over the beach any day Pat ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Jate
I lived in the Yarra Valley looking down on the track for 24 years
and now I live in Halls Gap - so you could say I have form
Hahahaha yep that'd do it!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Amlin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Showgrounds
Gday Trevor, Meant you won't make things better putting on 10k races you can't afford. No expert on it but there is a pool of money that you have to allocate as prizemoney. That's all there is. Pool is 39m this year I think.
Buts lets say it was 100k. Lets say take from turnover per race = 9k. So can put on 10 x 10k races and lose money on them. Next year got 90k to use. 9 x 10k races... less races less turnover less money... keep going backwards
Or put on 30 x 3k races. Take from turnover still be 9k. 30 x 9k = 270k. Next year 270k to use.... more races more money.
Very basic example but just trying to show what new admin is trying to do. Won't increase turnover by putting more stakes for same number of races. Need more races. So need to reduce prizemoney. Hopefully it short term thing. Won't change overnight but had to something. Things been going backwards for years and if kept going then harness racing dies.
Told last 3 months since it started everything is up. Field sizes, number of races, etc. But things not change overnight. Whats the alternative?
Don't know can compare to what happen in SA. They maybe left it too late. Horse population has dwindled so can't put on more races.
Also been over to Globe Derby few times recent years too. The power actually went off on course one night! Went over to watch Smoken Up and probably the best nights racing have been to in recent years. Yes very sad what venue has become.
And yes ... short attention spans! another problem..
Gday PatQuote:
Originally Posted by Fan of Jate
From the very limited numbers that are available that I've seen, Melton turnover bigger than Menangle. Vic got no money from selling track like NSW did. Also see NSW reduce prizemoney on races too. Interesting (and surprising} from what I saw that everything was down in Vic except for ownership numbers. Owner numbers gone up. Guessing because more syndicated horses but it's a positive.
You're right Kev, didn't agree with any of it except for number 1 of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messenger
The most spectacular harness racing track in the world has to be Kaikoura. Spectacular to watch on TV as well. I have been there but, unfortunately, not on on a race day. The entrance to the track is from a road that runs between the beach front and the back straight and around the home turn. The buildings and stables are perched back against a cliff. I had a pretty smart, if "emotional", horse at the time and thought he'd go into a wild gallop every time a wave broke.
Harness racing and whale watching from the one venue. A hard combination to top!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iwDXVotqjCEQuote:
Originally Posted by Showgrounds
The kiwis know how to put on a good day at the races and when you have a location like that you wish you could be there on that big day to experience it.