Total removal of 2yo racing for the benefit of the industry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch

I have no issue with racing 2yo's.

As many others have already suggested it's certainly not for every horse. Some are at their best at 2, while many others improve as they get older.

I think it's quite easy to explain why champion 2yo's often don't go on and perform later in their careers. Quite simply, they are early maturing horses and they are at their best at 2yo. Just like a late maturing horse might peak at 6, 7 or even older.

What I think can be improved with juvenile racing is the crazy prize money on offer in the futurities. Whilst futurity series are all self funding via the 'sustaining' fee process I would much prefer to see the APG (now only a 2yo series), Breeders Crown, Breeders Challenge etc have an even spread of prize money across all age groups and like the Jewels in NZ be extended 5yo's as well. The lure of such big prize money forces owners and trainers to make short term decisions which are not in the best interests of horses at times.
If the breeders crown for example was of $150k for 2yo's, 3yo's, 4yo's & 5yo's you would still get the best juvenile horses compete.

It will never be removed and nor should it.

I'm not as knowledgable as you guys but I agree it would be much better to spread the $$ evenly over 2yo 3yo 4yo and 5yo.

I'm relatively 'young' I think in this industry, I spend a fair bit at the yearling sales and plan on doing so well into the future, and I can tell you if they had a better spread of prizemoney like mentioned above it would only enhance my enthusiasm to be buying more horses and yearlings into the future.

However if it stays like it is now with the 2yos getting the lions share, well put it this way I have given serious consideration this year to not paying my yearling up for the Gold just because it is so focused on 2yo with nothing for any other age group.

I don't think that sort of lure is good for the industry overall, to be encouraging owners to get their horse absolutely flying as a very early 2yo.

It's a popular misconception that the older horses are 'missing out' on prizemoney because it's being diverted to big $$$ 2yo events.
Fact is the finance for big $$$ for 2yos largely comes in the form of Futurity events where Breeders & Owners pay up along the way and the Industry annually races for its own money.
When the Owners of C0's etc spring 2-3-4-5k each from the pockets to get a pool together then they can race for a 300k purse as well. Until then, IMO they need to get a little perspective on exactly where the $$$ for those juvenile events actually comes from.

Triple V my point is I think it would be far more attractive to me as a buyer to spend more money at the sales - to both pay more for a horse and also possibly buy more horses - if there were race series for 2yo 3yo 4yo and 5yo worth 100k-150k each, rather than just everything thrown into their 2yo year.

The way I think, if my horse misses the 2yo race due to a minor setback or he's not an early maturing gun type, then I still get a race to aim him at in 3yo year, and 4yo year and then at 5yo year too.

Mate I guarantee you that would get me pumped at the sales.

If the same horse is good enough to win every year then doff the hat to that gun he is the best and deserves every cent. But if 4 different horses get a win then every single purchaser at the sales has 4 times as much chance at a very good win for their money! And that would be much more reason to put up your hand at the sales I reckon.

And I would suggest it would be good for the longevity of the horses because I don't think the pressure would be on as much to get them going full bore at such a young age due to that being the only shot at the pot of gold.

Seems logical to me.

The ID final is worth 750K, the Miracle Mile 750K, Hunter Cup 400K, Vic Cup 400K.

The biggest 2yo races are APG 300K and Breeders Crown 300K. Both of these are futurity races ie self funded .There is not very much industry money put in 2yos. That is a big misconception.

It really only starts with the various Oaks/Derbies as 3yos

The one area that needs work on is 4yos. Most are not ready to take the step into free for all/grand circuit racing and there is very little around outside of sires stakes. There is nothing at all for mares and only Chariots of Fire for colts unless you go to WA for Golden Nugget

Quote:

Originally Posted by little fish

Triple V my point is I think it would be far more attractive to me as a buyer to spend more money at the sales - to both pay more for a horse and also possibly buy more horses - if there were race series for 2yo 3yo 4yo and 5yo worth 100k-150k each, rather than just everything thrown into their 2yo year.

The way I think, if my horse misses the 2yo race due to a minor setback or he's not an early maturing gun type, then I still get a race to aim him at in 3yo year, and 4yo year and then at 5yo year too.

Mate I guarantee you that would get me pumped at the sales.

If the same horse is good enough to win every year then doff the hat to that gun he is the best and deserves every cent. But if 4 different horses get a win then every single purchaser at the sales has 4 times as much chance at a very good win for their money! And that would be much more reason to put up your hand at the sales I reckon.

And I would suggest it would be good for the longevity of the horses because I don't think the pressure would be on as much to get them going full bore at such a young age due to that being the only shot at the pot of gold.

Seems logical to me.

[VVV] That would be pretty good I must admit. Kind of along those lines I'd like to see the Grand Circuit extended so that it covers both sexes of 2yos, 3yos, 4yos & Open Class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightymo

The ID final is worth 750K, the Miracle Mile 750K, Hunter Cup 400K, Vic Cup 400K.

The biggest 2yo races are APG 300K and Breeders Crown 300K. Both of these are futurity races ie self funded .There is not very much industry money put in 2yos. That is a big misconception.

It really only starts with the various Oaks/Derbies as 3yos

The one area that needs work on is 4yos. Most are not ready to take the step into free for all/grand circuit racing and there is very little around outside of sires stakes. There is nothing at all for mares and only Chariots of Fire for colts unless you go to WA for Golden Nugget

I dont think it's that much of a misconception, I definitely know how the funding works with the industry money and various crown, vicbred and gold series races.

My point is I think APG in particular should be spreading the $ more evenly up to their 5yo year. I think it would make a more attractive enticement for buyers to get involved (which would benefit breeders like yourself) and would also help the industry by removing the all or nothing emphasis on getting your 2yo up and going at such an early age.

If the 2yo race goes from 300k to 125k it wouldn't worry me one iota if the trade off was having a 3yo 100k, 4yo 100k and a 5yo 100k. Funding could come from re-jigging the sustainer amounts or adding a small extra sustainer for the 3yo 4yo and 5yo years.

They have changed the APG structure that many times already, they are obviously willing to look at better ways of doing it.

I was genuine in my comment that I seriously considered not paying up for the gold this year. My thinking was that I wanted to relieve the pressure from my trainers to be pushing the 2yos before they were ready. I trust my trainers, but the industry does it hard, and it is 300 grand after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by little fish

I dont think it's that much of a misconception, I definitely know how the funding works with the industry money and various crown, vicbred and gold series races.

My point is I think APG in particular should be spreading the $ more evenly up to their 5yo year. I think it would make a more attractive enticement for buyers to get involved (which would benefit breeders like yourself) and would also help the industry by removing the all or nothing emphasis on getting your 2yo up and going at such an early age.

If the 2yo race goes from 300k to 125k it wouldn't worry me one iota if the trade off was having a 3yo 100k, 4yo 100k and a 5yo 100k. Funding could come from re-jigging the sustainer amounts or adding a small extra sustainer for the 3yo 4yo and 5yo years.

They have changed the APG structure that many times already, they are obviously willing to look at better ways of doing it.

I was genuine in my comment that I seriously considered not paying up for the gold this year. My thinking was that I wanted to relieve the pressure from my trainers to be pushing the 2yos before they were ready. I trust my trainers, but the industry does it hard, and it is 300 grand after all.

Barry I think your ideas are very close to what our game needs, the commercial breeders will need to adjust their approach to the marketing of their product and the whole industry will need to make similarly sized adjustments, but if our game is going to survive in the longer term, the types of changes you are proposing are IMO, going to improve the returns and aspirations for the people who attend the yearling sales and also encourage the hobby breeder(s) to continue in a similar vein.

The sooner we stop people relying on "winning the lottery" and instead allow their horse to develop without undue pressure the more owners will see a positive result from their faith in our game.

Thanks ,
Dan

Into the bargain an Owner could ask their Trainer & the Farrier & the Feed bloke & the Vet & so on to make similarly long term investments in a horse and similarly wait 2-3-4 years + for their money.

With the two different camps on this debate, does anyone think that if the Miles could do it all again, they would have spelled Mindara P after she was crook in the lead up to the VSS final last month.

Hindsight a wonderful thing...