ASBA Breeding Panel Report- well worth the read

[mango]

I think the higher import fee's are a good idea it can only help promote our own breeding industry that is sadly lacking in incentives to breed that 1 extra wether to race yourself or sell
in the education,training strategy to get live foals to track i believe a lot of horses just aren't given enough time because the owner's want that early 2yo money if they don't come up quick a lot of them are invariably dogged for the simple reason they weren't mature enough at that stage of their life and because of the cost's are got rid of because of lack of patience and being able to give them time as another 12 month's is more dead money in agistment cost's etc

Hi Greg

I agree with raising the import fee but to $5k for a colt is absurd, maybe they should of lifted it from $500 to $2k at most but thats just my opinion and fillies and mare's should be kepted at there same fee as the majority of them become future broodmare's in our country. I don't think this will change people's idea's on keeping horses and breeding 1 more mare per year as we can see now the decline of breeding has already started and people prefer to buy a yearling or a going horse which takes a lot of risks out from rearing a foal and so on. You can buy decent yearling's these day's for not much more than the service fee sometime's. Some people don't want horses sitting in a paddock for 12 months whilst still outlaying money on agistment, worming, hoof trimming and getting there teeth done they mostly listen to there trainers and if he say's the horse ain't know good or might win 1 at most whats the use of spelling paying agistment and then 12wks pay to the trainer to get that horse to the track to win 1 race you will be running at a loss.

[mango]

QUOTE [ The Panel also revamped the Sires Fertility List to include Positive Tests, to more accurately reflect the performance of the Stallion. Previously, a mare dying, a mare slipping or a foal dying counted against a Stallions fertility performance.
These changes now determine the Stallions' performance based on positive tests as a percentage of total services.
Based on the 2009/2010 statistics, the Stallion Fertility percentage rose from 62.15% to 73.94% as there were 992 more positive tests than the live foals figure reflects ] END QUOTE.

Hi Triple

I think this is a great idea and if i remember rightly you brought this exact subject up a couple of months ago in a previous post. Maybe they should call it the Triple stats lol.

[triplev123]

Hi Triple

I think this is a great idea and if i remember rightly you brought this exact subject up a couple of months ago in a previous post. Maybe they should call it the Triple stats lol.

Proud to say that was the centrepiece of my submission and I'm absolutely bloody thrilled that it was adopted. On & off I have been banging away at the relevance to Breeders of the previous format for some 15 years or so....and it actually goes way back to the battles fought in the early to mid 1990's here in NSW when I was on the NSWSBA along with Garry Reid. We got the then NSW Sires Stakes prizemoney evened up for the Fillies & the Colts but I could never get this across the line.
It's very, very satisfying to see this finally grow wings & fly Mango and to say that I am a a VERY happy camper this morning would be an understatement.

[triplev123]

Hi Greg

I agree with raising the import fee but to $5k for a colt is absurd, maybe they should of lifted it from $500 to $2k at most but thats just my opinion and fillies and mare's should be kepted at there same fee as the majority of them become future broodmare's in our country. I don't think this will change people's idea's on keeping horses and breeding 1 more mare per year as we can see now the decline of breeding has already started and people prefer to buy a yearling or a going horse which takes a lot of risks out from rearing a foal and so on. You can buy decent yearling's these day's for not much more than the service fee sometime's. Some people don't want horses sitting in a paddock for 12 months whilst still outlaying money on agistment, worming, hoof trimming and getting there teeth done they mostly listen to there trainers and if he say's the horse ain't know good or might win 1 at most whats the use of spelling paying agistment and then 12wks pay to the trainer to get that horse to the track to win 1 race you will be running at a loss.

G'day Mango,

Why is it absurd?
Along with a number of others you seem to have completely overlooked the fact that the brief given to the Panel was a focus on the AUSTRALIAN Breeding Industry, not on that of NZ, the US or CAN.
How else exactly do you expect the rest of the proposals contained in that report to be funded?
The 5k Import Fee for colts, geldings & entires is not going to be an additional charge for starters. Instead, along with the shipping charges it will come straight off the top of the prices paid for NZ bred stock. What do you care if the Kiwi sellers end up getting 5k less for the exported male going horses? That charge is factored into the overall landed price. I find it absolutely astonishing that any Oz Breeders would give a bugger.

[mango]

Hey Triple

A lot of horses are purchased privately and then you have to organise transport and so on yourself so how does the $5k come of the purchase price. Personally i don't give a bugger as i don't race colts/gelding's but i have a few mate's who do so i'm looking at this from both side's.

[triplev123]

Hey Triple

A lot of horses are purchased privately and then you have to organise transport and so on yourself so how does the $5k come of the purchase price. Personally i don't give a bugger as i don't race colts/gelding's but i have a few mate's who do so i'm looking at this from both side's.

Simple. The cost of the transport and importation comes off the top of the purchase price because you factor it into how much you're willing to pay for the horse to start with, the price you're willing to fork over exclusive of additional charges. For example if you're aiming up on a 50k landed buy out of NZ then the price the seller actually gets for the horse is $AUS50k less transport and import costs.
Under this 5k proposal & using the $AUS50k landed as a figure...at a guess the seller gets something in the vicinity of $AUS42k if you're going to do the crossing by boat...which it is worth noting is still around $NZ52,750.

[mango]

Hey Triple

That will be correct if you do the deal with an agent where they quote the price as $50k landed, Say you purchase a horse in n.z for $50k without the agent you then have to organise and pay transport costs and a few other charges and then you will have to pay the $5k import fee. Not all sale's are done on the deal where it includes being landed which means the buyer here in Aus pay's the $5k.

[triplev123]

You're missing the point mate. It's not that complicated.
You don't pay the fee, you deduct it as a cost from your offer. In effect the seller pays the fee because they get less for their horse. If, again for an example, you have a budget of $AUS50k landed (and I assume most everyone has a budget of some description or if not then a general idea of what they wish to spend) then it is no different.
Landed does not automatically = the involvement of an agent. Landed is Landed, it is the all costs included price of a horse when it walks off the truck & into your barn. Agents & private sellers alike can quote all the prices they like. What you'll see fit to offer them is up to you.

[mango]

I'm not missing the point at all, if the seller want's $50k for the horse and know less how do you deduct it ($5k)from the offer . At present if i was to buy a horse for $50k direct of the seller as that was a price he wanted and i agreed to then yes i'm aware that tranport and them thing's are my costs and at present i'm aware that the $500 import fee is what i have to pay when it arrive's. But under this new system it won't be $500 i'll pay but $5k. Do you honestly think people are going to take less for there horses if they have $50k firm on them, your saying either offer them $45k or tell them they will have to pay the import fee i wreckon they'll jump at that deal. How many seller's are going to take less for a horse due to people on this end having to pay an extra $4.5k on import fee's.

[triplev123]

Originally Posted by mango

I'm not missing the point at all, if the seller want's $50k for the horse and know less how do you deduct it ($5k)from the offer .
At present if i was to buy a horse for $50k direct of the seller as that was a price he wanted and i agreed to then yes i'm aware that tranport and them thing's are my costs and at present i'm aware that the $500 import fee is what i have to pay when it arrive's.

[VVV] You are indeed missing the point. At the risk of causing poor old Breno unpleasant flashbacks & assorted nightmares, it is known as a 'Free Market'. Sellers can have an asking price of whatever they like, buyers can make offers below that if they so wish. The seller is asking 50k and no less. Good for him. That doesn't stop you offering 45k or 40k or whatever price you please. Maybe you're feeling generous one day & by way of furthering trans Tasman relations you decide the horse is too cheap and you slip them 55k. That's entirely up to you also.

But under this new system it won't be $500 i'll pay but $5k.
[VVV] You won't. Indirectly the seller will pay it because they've received 5k less for their horse as you will have deducted all of your costs to land the horse in Oz from your offer.

Do you honestly think people are going to take less for there horses if they have $50k firm on them, your saying either offer them $45k or tell them they will have to pay the import fee i wreckon they'll jump at that deal.
[VVV] Yes, I most certainly do. It will simply be another cost that's factored into the final agreed price along with the transport, insurance, GST etc etc etc. Ultimately... the fact is that the Kiwis HAVE TO SELL. It is by no means a secret that they produce well in excess of the number of horses they require to fill their race fields and they have done for as long as I can remember.


How many seller's are going to take less for a horse due to people on this end having to pay an extra $4.5k on import fee's.
[VVV] Ultimately, in one form or another...every single one of them.

Mango, this report & the various proposals contained therein are squarely in keeping with the brief given to the Panel.
In its entirety it is about furthering the interests of the Australian Breeding Industry...not those of NZ or for that matter the US or CAN. There are indeed aspects of the overall document that I don't happen to agree with and that will almost always be the case with any such report...however this is most certainly not one of them. A reading of the entire report and a placing of this aspect of it in context rather than railing against it in isolation would not go astray.