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Thread: The ASBP Report: How can they be serious? Bad news for harness owners

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  1. #1

    The ASBP Report: How can they be serious? Bad news for harness owners

    First time poster on this forum, I see that there is a topic on this report under 'Breeding' but as this affects all aspects of the industry potentially, I feel it is right to discuss one particular part of their recommendations here.

    The ASBP should be commended for their efforts to address problems with breeding and exploring avenues on how to sort these issues out.

    They recommend a National Breeding Credit Scheme for mares which it is anticipated will stimulate the greater participation in racing by those fillies and mares, by funding F&M racing, giving credits to horses themselves so as to be used as credits against future stallion fees against that mare and so forth.

    This scheme requires funding and one area that the Panel suggested funding the $2.1 million per year that was needed was by the introduction of IMPORT FEES on horses that are bought from overseas to come here to race.

    The suggested fee was $1500 for 4yo and up mares, and $5000 for C&G.

    In NSW this fee stands at $150 and $500 respectively and the suggestion is to increase 10 fold to fund this breeding intiative.

    I am really disappointed that this has been recommended as the major source of funding for the Breeding Proposal. There seems very little consideration given to owners, in fact a small percentage of owners whom source their racing product from overseas.

    Can anyone tell me how creating such a disincentive for ownership can be good for the sport? Harness Racing struggles enough as it is to attract owners and let alone retain them. One very attractive way to do this is to source horses from NZ because you can get them here and race them soon after. Australians don't sell and are habitual overpricers.

    According to the figures 13% of racing horses are from NZ. If you create barriers or make the sourcing of horses from NZ not as attractive, then there will be less horses coming over here to race.

    I saw in the other thread some suggestions that the NZ breeders will absorb the costs.

    What rubbish.

    At the end of the day a $5000 impost in importing horses from NZ will equate to a greater cost to owners no matter which way you look at it.

    A $20k horse now based on its relative ability will not be $20k in the future with the $5000 import fee. There will be other horses for sale at that price, but they will generally be ones of lesser ability, and therefore the import fee would encourage the importation of lesser grade animals as a result.

    I find this recommendation to be completely at odds with what we are trying to achieve in the wider industry. By all means the breeders need supporting but breeders themselves are to blame for a lot of their woes with the ordinary stock they bring to sales. How can they expect to generate a return when they produce a product that people swat away? Any look at a sales catalogue shows it is often a great reference point for ordinarily bred horses, that any sensible yearling purchaser will simply shun.

    And another consideration too: Breeders complain about the rising costs making it harder to attain or reach break even. Do the Breeders think that increased feed costs, fuel costs, general costs are only felt by Breeders?

    No they are not. Everyone in the industry feels these costs. One cost they might be relatively alone in feeling is the cost of servicing mares. Breeders themselves create the demand that determines the pricing of stallions. Breeders want greater access to better stallions and the NBCS should give them that over time, but as we have seen by Alabar and so forth, service fees are coming down this season. They realise you need it to make it more economical to prudce good quality racing stock.

    There is plenty more to debate on this topic, but this ridiculous IMPORT FEE needs to be stopped dead in its tracks.

  2. #2
    triplev123
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    My most sincere & most humble apologies TBM. I don't know what I thinking.
    Posting a link to the HRA Breeding Panel report under the Breeding Section of this Forum and then commenting on same & in same...it was indeed very remiss of me to have done so.

    Btw TBM...I was wondering how long it would take you to show up here mate.
    You're getting slow in your old age. Trust you and yours are well. Happy to go back & forth here but if you prefer, ring me if you want to discuss over the phone or over a few coldies.
    Last edited by triplev123; 07-26-2011 at 10:14 PM. Reason: forgot to add a bit

  3. #3
    Senior Member Colt smithy will become famous soon enough
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    i agree with whoever posted this - you can't support breeders at the expense of owners - they are one and the same

    can someone explain (as it was ignored on the other thread) why the import fee is only on colts? i thought they were trying to increase the value of aussie horses particularly fillies - wouldnt this make them less valuable as fillies from nz will be swimming over in 100's

  4. #4
    triplev123
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    G'day Smithy,

    There seems to be a fair amount of confusion here.
    The Panel that produced this paper was not charged with addressing any factors other than those which have Australian Breeding Industy implications.
    They were wholly and solely charged with the addressing of Australian Breeding Industry issues and with suggesting ways in which the lot of the Australian Breeding Industry could be augmented. No more, no less.
    This was NOT in any way intended to be a wide ranging paper addressing the Australian Harness Racing Industry as a whole & a reading of the HRA Panel's brief confirms same.

    Did you send in your own submission with your ideas for their consideration?
    They received somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 replies I believe.

    On the proposed charges, it's not only on colts, geldings & entires (5k) each. It is also on fillies, only not quite as much (1.5k).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by triplev123 View Post
    G'day Smithy,

    There seems to be a fair amount of confusion here.
    The Panel that produced this paper was not charged with addressing any factors other than those which have Australian Breeding Industy implications.
    They were wholly and solely charged with the addressing of Australian Breeding Industry issues and with suggesting ways in which the lot of the Australian Breeding Industry could be augmented. No more, no less.
    This was NOT in any way intended to be a wide ranging paper addressing the Australian Harness Racing Industry as a whole & a reading of the HRA Panel's brief confirms same.

    Did you send in your own submission with your ideas for their consideration?
    They received somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 replies I believe.

    On the proposed charges, it's not only on colts, geldings & entires (5k) each. It is also on fillies, only not quite as much (1.5k).
    Hello Mr Triple V. Why then if the above was true would those in charge of trying to address these issues push forward ideas that have implications for the wider industry?

    Coming up with a suggestion 'just because it suits the breeding industry' without contemplating the wider ramifications is ignorant at best. In fact it is downright dismal. I certainly would have expected more on that front than they have presented.

    Smithy said 'you can't support breeders at the expense of owners'. How true.

    Incidently I should point out I am a small time breeder and an owner whom in the last 12 months has bought yearlings, racing horses domestically and from abroad.

    To make a suggestion as an import fee is creating a barrier to entry to the market that has the potential to discourage potential ownership. It is the last thing harness racing needs as it struggles to compete with other entertainment mediums.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithy View Post
    i agree with whoever posted this - you can't support breeders at the expense of owners - they are one and the same
    If they are one and the same it would be imposible to support one and not the other. Your statement contradicts its self.
    Last edited by gutwagon; 07-28-2011 at 10:54 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #7
    triplev123
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    G'day The Big Mile,

    Mate, just one thing that's worth noting in relation to the Oz Yearling Sale values and in particular, the biggest sale here...the APG as compared to buying going horses out of NZ.

    Going horses from NZ are NOT eligible for the APG, NSW Breeders Challenge etc...in fact for the most part they're not eligible for a whole lot at all...and this, combined with a 26-27% & sometimes as high as 30% kick in the Fx means that NZ going horses can be purchased rather advantageously as compared to their Oz bred compatriots.

    I don't for one minute doubt that the going concern end of the market here in Oz is more often than not overpriced however to be totally fair you really need to compare apples to apples if you're looking to aim up on relative asking prices.
    An Oz bred yearling that's sold in the APG and is eligible for a swag of futurities has one price tag relative to its earning potential while an NZ bred going concern with few if any futurity eligibilities has another.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by triplev123 View Post
    G'day The Big Mile,

    Mate, just one thing that's worth noting in relation to the Oz Yearling Sale values and in particular, the biggest sale here...the APG as compared to buying going horses out of NZ.

    Going horses from NZ are NOT eligible for the APG, NSW Breeders Challenge etc...in fact for the most part they're not eligible for a whole lot at all...and this, combined with a 26-27% & sometimes as high as 30% kick in the Fx means that NZ going horses can be purchased rather advantageously as compared to their Oz bred compatriots.

    I don't for one minute doubt that the going concern end of the market here in Oz is more often than not overpriced however to be totally fair you really need to compare apples to apples if you're looking to aim up on relative asking prices.
    An Oz bred yearling that's sold in the APG and is eligible for a swag of futurities has one price tag relative to its earning potential while an NZ bred going concern with few if any futurity eligibilities has another.
    Triple VVVV: What is proposed is something that will tax a certain percentage of OWNERS, to meet the shortcomings of the breeding industry.

    That includes all breeders as all will be eligible.

    You breeders (well I am actually one, but I am a breeder whom is generally appalled by the constant 'help me, help me' cries that bellow from the breeding industry) need to realise if you want to make your(our) progeny more attractive, then what you need are BUYERS. BUYERS = OWNERS.

    The industry at large has done a large slice of very little in trying to attract new owners. Where do they go generally to seek horses? NZ. A-la the Number One Club.

    What YOU blokes need to do is create a culture of cultivating the owners within the industry that breeding is worth a tilt, or at least a gamble at the yearling sales. But do not discourage their general interest in the game by silly things like excessive Import fees.

    Problem is, investing in yearlings is a gamble that rarely pays off. The term 'you may as well slit your wrists' is commonly bandied around and given my experience at yearling sales, that rings pretty true.

    You can only bleed owners for so much.

    Am I meant to be sympathetic towards breeders whom should have culled poor broodmares years ago but persist with them?

    The Credit Scheme could easily see more of this happen - persistence with poor mares at the races then at stud. Is it a good thing? Well if we need two headed gorillas on the race track so punters can wager on them, so be it.

    Maybe the drops in foals in recent years is evolution in motion, the culling of the weakest.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Colt smithy will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutwagon View Post
    If they are one and the same it would be imposible to support one and not the other. Your statement contadicts its self.
    how does making horses more expensive help owners who don't sell at yearling sales? this report is aimed directly at supporting the yearling sales breeders/sellers - not ordinary breeders who race their own stock who are under pressure from rising costs

    it looks imo like its trying to bring back the nsw sires stakes program which is dead and buried

    the report makes absolutely no difference between yearlings and going horses - they are clearly different products and if people want going horses they will simply buy 5+ mares.. and then watch the kiwi horses win all the races when they get handicapping kickbacks when their imported
    Last edited by smithy; 07-28-2011 at 09:30 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member 4YO Don Corleone has a spectacular aura about Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Hi Big Mile,
    Totally, 100% agree with you. I am a small time breeder/owner/trainer/buyer. Over the past 20 odd years 75% of my horses have gone to you guys in OZ and it gives me great pleasure when my horses arrive and have success there. I have sold horses from 6k to 160k. Most of what I buy and train are mares and are in the 10k to 30k price range. I might consider absorbing the cost in a 100k sale but wouldn't consider it on anything less.

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