Roll With Joe
+ Reply to Thread
Page 13 of 50 FirstFirst ... 3 11 12 13 14 15 23 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 498

Thread: Industry Indicators - Good, Bad & Ugly

  1. #121
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year arlington will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Wayne Hayes
    Posts
    787
    No question from anyone, increased breeding numbers is priority. It might be relatively insignificant but the import fees were reduced, are less, for females?

    I've questioned quite a few things about APG in the past, things like does APG get priority in the racing calendar. The marketing can be too over the top in that it isn't worth looking at a non sales purchase. There was a period where APG yearlings could get reduced futurity fees, not so home breds/sold on farm.

    As for bonuses, whilst not a foal bonus, at the last round of CEO road shows David Martin did pose, should the first win bonus be paid out as a first race bonus?! Desperation(?). He'd gone through the breeding and racehorse numbers, showing how few starts many horses have before they're lost. Was/seemed a large number even allowing for injuries. The flow on effect would be people would reinvest in young stock/service fees.

    I'll put this to the commercial breeders, just as a messenger (sorry Kev). Talking to a few owners who buy, some aren't completely happy with breeders getting a share of the first win bonus. Caveat emptor with the costs associated with the gamble after fall of hammer. Chicken or the egg?

  2. #122
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Dot will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Dot Schmidt
    Posts
    616
    There seem to be several question over APG, an additional one is the emphasis on 2yo series and whether the winners share of the purse is too high given the costs incurred by the majority to retain eligibility.

    As for first win bonus being for first race or made easier to win is that really being reinvested in breeding horses or is that an assumption? Or does that just see a more rapid reduction in the existing racing population once they have got, in many instances their one big pay day. Perhaps the bonus is best spread out over a permanent reduction in foal fees, a first start bonus, followed by either a first win bonus and or a minimum number of starts achieved bonus.

    Horses exiting racing need to be tracked better as to why, injury, handicapping, lack of local racing opportunities, not worth racing after bonus won, etc. Probably should be better tracking of horses entering the HERO program, does “too slow” mean too slow altogether or too slow to pay training fees for, but suited to owner/trainer/driver with lower expectations for them?

    Not a commercial breeder but the first win bonus should go entirely to the breeder, they actually are most likely to do with it what is needed, breed more horses because that’s what breeders do, and not solely for a monetary gain but because that is what many enjoy doing, money is what makes it possible to do. Those owners you talk of who buy rarely see the real cost to a breeder of producing the yearling they have bought, the mare missed or slipped seasons, the foal died or was injured and unraceable before the sales or the mare dies and has to be replaced, and are often buying at less then cost to produce that foal, never mind cover the additional costs/losses of the breeder.

    With many breeders racing their own they are getting the full bonus, trainer driver share as well if they do it all themselves. Owners who buy if they are so concerned at missing out on the bonus can revise down what they are prepared to pay at the sales for a yearling, I don’t see every yearling reducing by $7000 at the sales because a buyer won’t get the first win bonus.

    Changes to the handicapping system have been in place already, and hopefully will be improved markedly soon, which extend a horses career and increase its ability to earn by dropping back into easier company should provide sufficient compensation to buyers missing out on the bonus and breeders will rarely see any of a horses additional money from stakes from the revised handicapping

  3. #123
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year arlington will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Wayne Hayes
    Posts
    787
    Just quickly Dot, the owners I've referred to are breeders as well as buyers. They've bought when they've encountered the pitfalls in breeding you've mentioned, (or have bought to add to the team of homebreds) hence the thought bonuses should go to them. They're not sellers, of yearlings.
    Would like to have more time right now to give thought to what you've written but for now, touching on the foals that don't change ownership. What would a race series that excludes sales horses do?

  4. #124
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
    Real Name
    Rick Mckinley
    Location
    Melbourne
    Occupation
    Dreamer
    Posts
    735
    Horses
    Peaces Of You, Final Peace.
    Dot , HRV's incentive to increase foal numbers seems to be just try to increase turnover and thus increase prizemoney. But at the same time they introduced the tiered prizemoney races that makes it much harder for breeders to recoup their costs with low stakes races and most of the high stakes races going to a small number of big stables.

    They have been trying this increase turnover plan for over 10 years and it seems to be increasing every year but not solving any of the issues. Every new board looks for a quick short term fix to try and save their butts. We need long term plans, there is no quick fix.
    Increasing foal numbers must be the number 1 plan, why try to increase demand for a product if you can't supply the product ?
    Don't die wondering !

  5. #125
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    14,029
    Horses
    A long, long time ago
    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    The last at Melton tonight is not how things are supposed to work
    It is a Vicbred Platinum Country Series final
    The heats were at Stawell last Sunday but there was only 1 heat so the whole 9 could have run at Melton tonight
    Instead we end up with a field of 4 after 3 of the 7 acceptors scratched
    Quoting myself I know but I wanted to point out that it is becoming an all too regular occurrence
    The R10 County Series Final at Melton tonight has only 4 starters. There was only ever 1 heat at Ararat which attracted 7 runners
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  6. #126
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year gutwagon will become famous soon enough gutwagon's Avatar
    Real Name
    Rick Mckinley
    Location
    Melbourne
    Occupation
    Dreamer
    Posts
    735
    Horses
    Peaces Of You, Final Peace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    Quoting myself I know but I wanted to point out that it is becoming an all too regular occurrence
    The R10 County Series Final at Melton tonight has only 4 starters. There was only ever 1 heat at Ararat which attracted 7 runners
    They should have enough sense to put in the conditions that if there is only enough horses for one heat then the heat will become the final and be ran at Melton. They could ad the prizemoney to the final purse or use it somewhere else. Is it that hard ?
    Don't die wondering !

  7. #127
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kevin O'Donoghue
    Location
    The Gap
    Occupation
    Retired
    Posts
    14,029
    Horses
    A long, long time ago
    As you have previously mentioned Rick - HRV want race volume so they are highly unlikely to scrap one
    per un PUGNO di DOLLARI

  8. #128
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year arlington will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Wayne Hayes
    Posts
    787
    Quote Originally Posted by gutwagon View Post
    They should have enough sense to put in the conditions that if there is only enough horses for one heat then the heat will become the final and be ran at Melton. They could ad the prizemoney to the final purse or use it somewhere else. Is it that hard ?
    Not so simple, similar to the series Kev initially posted about, other heats were programmed at another venue.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Dot will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Dot Schmidt
    Posts
    616
    It certainly seems that the series is missing the mark and needs amending. Perhaps the heats should be amended to preludes with fresh nominations for the final and preference given to horses that contested a prelude.

    It maybe that the finals for these should be held somewhere other then Melton if preludes amd fresh noms are called for though

  10. #130
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Dot will become famous soon enough
    Real Name
    Dot Schmidt
    Posts
    616
    Quote Originally Posted by arlington View Post
    Just quickly Dot, the owners I've referred to are breeders as well as buyers. They've bought when they've encountered the pitfalls in breeding you've mentioned, (or have bought to add to the team of homebreds) hence the thought bonuses should go to them. They're not sellers, of yearlings.
    Would like to have more time right now to give thought to what you've written but for now, touching on the foals that don't change ownership. What would a race series that excludes sales horses do?
    So what your saying Wayne is they want the bonus for themselves whether they breed or buy a horse? At what price range are they buying Wayne? Only at a level that ensures the breeder of the yearling they buy breaks even or makes a profit or at a level that they know from their experience that the seller has made a loss, if its the later they sound pretty selfish to me.

    The sales races are funded by fees and commissions associated with the sales process and race series eligibility, how would a race for non sales horses be funded? Would non selling breeders be prepared to fund it by paying in as they do for the majority of stakes races in the US? Or should the homegrown series be amemnded to really be home grown and be restricted to stock that are raced by owner/breeders? Of course people who buy would complain about not being in eligible for that series particularly when their expensive sales purchase doesn’t measure up in the sales races.

+ Reply to Thread

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts