Menangle Stewards Report- Tuesday

[JCT2011]

I agree with you VVV.

My point in the case is regarding a runner Cardinal Rule. I guess I am talking out of my own a pocket here a little bit, But I have always made a bit of money on this runner previously as he was always great value to run a whole each week. He has great gate speed which he always used, and handed up after finding the paint.
IMO, his first run for the new stable was only moderate where he came out o.k, and then elected to hang back and find the running line, he floundered in the last 200, which could be expected first time up and for the new stable.
His second run back (monday) he had drawn a good pole and I thought that if he was driven the way he had been previously, he would of been a very strong place hope (as there seemed to be plenty of speed in the race).
He was punched out of the gate in a very quick high 27 opening panel, and elected to hold the lead, which looking back in his form has not done in 2 years! and failed to run on in the event on monday as he had previously.

Im not just picking on this race alone, I was just wondering where the rules stood.

[triplev123]

Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes you can really wake a horse up by changing things up on it.
Take a horse that usually leaves hard & jag him off the gate to save him up for one late shot at them...or conversely you can take a horse that usually jags off and looks for cover, stoke him up in the prelim. and leave hard, looking for the front.
Doing that sort of thing with some horses, especially older ones that have had a few starts and are in a bit of a rut, can often bring good results.

[triplev123]

I agree with you VVV.

My point in the case is regarding a runner Cardinal Rule. I guess I am talking out of my own a pocket here a little bit, But I have always made a bit of money on this runner previously as he was always great value to run a whole each week. He has great gate speed which he always used, and handed up after finding the paint.
IMO, his first run for the new stable was only moderate where he came out o.k, and then elected to hang back and find the running line, he floundered in the last 200, which could be expected first time up and for the new stable.
His second run back (monday) he had drawn a good pole and I thought that if he was driven the way he had been previously, he would of been a very strong place hope (as there seemed to be plenty of speed in the race).
He was punched out of the gate in a very quick high 27 opening panel, and elected to hold the lead, which looking back in his form has not done in 2 years! and failed to run on in the event on monday as he had previously.

Im not just picking on this race alone, I was just wondering where the rules stood.

[VVV] I agree JCT. I've never seen that horse lead up. That's not to say he hasn't of course, but I watch a lot of races from all over the place & I've never seen him leave that hard & hold. Usually he'll skip out and pretty quickly look to hand up. Maybe JP just decided to shake him up a little and see? Just on that race, how'd you like to have entered a basically bread and butter moderate 4yo+ event and still have to go in 1:56 & a piece to win?

[JCT2011]

[VVV] I agree JCT. I've never seen that horse lead up. That's not to say he hasn't of course, but I watch a lot of races from all over the place & I've never seen him leave that hard & hold. Usually he'll skip out and pretty quickly look to hand up. Maybe JP just decided to shake him up a little and see? Just on that race, how'd you like to have entered a basically bread and butter moderate 4yo+ event and still have to go in 1:56 & a piece to win?

Exactly VVV, Would be sure to think that was JP's mentality, but should of he notified stewards?

[triplev123]

Exactly VVV, Would be sure to think that was JP's mentality, but should of he notified stewards?

[VVV] G'day JCT. That outing's a change up for sure but no, I don't think that he's under any obligation to do so because he's under no obligation to train or drive the horse the same way as the previous trainer & driver. In fact he may well not even be aware of the way in which it was being raced prior to joining his stable.

On a more general note...the fact that the change of tactics rule...one which was specifically designed to allow the Stewards to aim up on team driving...is being so extensively & so very erroneously applied to the performances of individual horses is in and of itself, absurd.

[thesushitrain]

In fact he may well not even be aware of the way in which it was being raced prior to joining his stable

if he doesnt know that much then he might as well give up the game right now

[triplev123]

It's the benefit of reasonable doubt TST. In general, I think you'd be very surprised by how many trainers & drivers don't know the capabilities/racing patterns of their opposition in any given race.

[thesushitrain]

ignorance is never a defence

[triplev123]

True. The hard core form student Punters have a better grasp of horse to horse ability than anyone. In fact, I've long believed that the Stewards need the official assistance of someone who can really pin down the form for them & should instances of concern arise, advise them accordingly.

[Flashing Red]

It might not be ignorance, sometimes a horse's racing pattern can be changed through training. While a true one paced horse can never brilliantly sprint, they can be trained and driven to pick up their speed. Likewise, a trainer can improve a renowned sit sprinter to be able to stay as well.

The only time I would pay attention to how a former trainer raced their horse is if I couldn't get said horse going myself.