Charges laid in swabbing scandal

[aussiebreno]

Where ever money is involved there will always be corruption! there are a lot more out there that use different ways to either win a race or pull there horses up especially when favorite, I have been following Harness racing for over 30 years and i have seen quite a lot, I won't mention any names but there is on fellow that never tried on a favorite unless it was a big win prize or he was on a roughie, and what i am saying is fact, i used to keep data bases on all horses Trials, Sales, Wins And Mile Rates etc, i used to earn a second income, but the past 2 years has been unbelievable, you can throw any type of form out the window as horses being beaten by 40 metres on there merits are winning their next starts. How?? Unless they have a little help!! It's impossible for them to show form reversal. In saying that on hearing that there is 37 plus races that are under scrutiny tells me that i had no chance of investing my money for a return. All areas of a harness race need to be looked at here's a few.
1.Any horse or driver leading with slow sectionals, both be banned for 3 months. there should be a minimum set of lead times for all distances. Stupid rule already let alone what youre suggesting. Why is it the leaders perogative to set a faster time and in something subjective like racing who's to say what a minimum lead time should be anyway.
2.Favorites that that don't perform to expectations, both be banned for 3 months. I know of $1.04 shot; 2nd fave was at $21 and nothing else was under $50 until a minute before the race who got an easy lead and failed in a time well outside of its best just 9months ago. Nothing sinister in it except the horse didn't show up. You can't make rules like this.
3.Form reversal horses beaten out of sight last start barring an incident, both be banned for 3 months. Yeah great rule. Not. So I have horse that genuinely improves; I have to play around with it at its next 3 or 4 starts to show that improvement before I'm allowed to win just so I don't get banned. Also disallows say 5 horses in each race winning simply because it would be a form reversal. Who's to police such subjective rules. Lol.
4.If a trainer has 2 or more in a race and one is favorite but doesn't put in an effort and is beaten by a stablemate, every endeavor should be made by stewards to find out why, because there are many races where the favorite or form horse loses when it should have had every thing going for it to win unless it fell over.
These are only a few incidences that need addressing and if HRNSW want integrity back in this sport they need too think that it the punting public that keeps them afloat and the more they are betting on bad investments because of corruptness the more they will give it away.

Yes its terrible what has been going on but those aren't the answers I'm afraid.

[triplev123]

Legendairey

If we adopted your suggestions, especially 3 what would you do with the recently USA returned trainer and his horse from race 11 at Menangle today.

[VVV] Darren took that horse to the top and he simply bottomed out the field...you'll note that each quarter went by progressively slower than the previous 26.4, 28.1, 28.4 & 29.0.
What you saw there was a classic example of speed holding up on the front end on a track that is approaching being lightning fast now...and it was a lesson in how that track should be driven. The US drivers do exactly that day in day out over the mile and nobody give it so much as a second thought. Btw...inferring there was some sort of nefaious behaviour involved by way of a throw away 'recently USA returned trainer'...is not a very charitable thing to do.

[The Rainmaker]

1.Any horse or driver leading with slow sectionals, both be banned for 3 months. there should be a minimum set of lead times for all distances.

[TR] So a leader of any given race should go faster in the early stages to its own detriment to set it up so that horses at the back of the field have a better chance of running them down? No other driver in the race should ever show initiative and go forward to the death seat to force the pace or contest the lead in the first place?

2.Favorites that that don't perform to expectations, both be banned for 3 months.

[TR] Because horses are machines and every favourite should win every race and every horse should perform at its best every start? Who decides on the expectations? A favourite runs second on its merits so ban it? Be a pretty ordinary sport if every horse finished where the punters think they should according to the market, wouldnt really be horse racing or punting would it?

3.Form reversal horses beaten out of sight last start barring an incident, both be banned for 3 months.

[TR] What about horses dropping back in class? Contest a final at Menangle on Saturday night or strong Tuesday race, then drop back to a weak race at Penrith/Bathurst etc. then win? They should be banned? Smart punters see when certain form reversals are on the cards and take full advantage.


4.If a trainer has 2 or more in a race and one is favorite but doesn't put in an effort and is beaten by a stablemate, every endeavor should be made by stewards to find out why, because there are many races where the favorite or form horse loses when it should have had every thing going for it to win unless it fell over.

[TR] Agreed, however look at the Pizzuto case with Franco Torres and Our Amazing Art afew months ago, HRNSW put the writing on the wall to make examples of such tactics and will hopefully continue to do so.
.

[TR] My main involvment with Harness Racing is punting, and I want to see the sport cleaned up like everyone else here, but I think most of the points you have made here are contradictory and have nothing to do with cleaning the sport up at all.

In point 1 a favourite leads in a slow lead time and wins, should it get banned?

Or the favourite in point 1 runs a quick lead time and gets beat on its merits, does it get banned?

Or a horse with an ordinary performance last start, starts favourite and wins, does it get a ban?

Its punters like you they've tried to cater for with stupid things such as the Change Of Tactics farce here in NSW, by being spoon fed. If you cant handle the thought of losing, dont have a bet.

[p plater]

[VVV] Darren took that horse to the top and he simply bottomed out the field...you'll note that each quarter went by progressively slower than the previous 26.4, 28.1, 28.4 & 29.0.
What you saw there was a classic example of speed holding up on the front end on a track that is approaching being lightning fast now...and it was a lesson in how that track should be driven. The US drivers do exactly that day in day out over the mile and nobody give it so much as a second thought. Btw...inferring there was some sort of nefaious behaviour involved by way of a throw away 'recently USA returned trainer'...is not a very charitable thing to do.

You may be correct but to be unplaced the previous 13 starts and a personal beaten best of 1.55.4 at Menangle 2 weeks ago.........Hmmmmm thats some improvement

[triplev123]

You may be correct but to be unplaced the previous 13 starts and a personal beaten best of 1.55.4 at Menangle 2 weeks ago.........Hmmmmm thats some improvement

[VVV] The horse could have had a myriad of problems holding it back and maybe Darren has been able to get over the top of them. Who knows? If you asked him I'm sure he'd tell you.
That's also the horse's 5th start back from a spell, his 1st two were over the 2300m, his next two were over the mile beaten 6m & 9m & both times while in against significantly stronger company than today, only form in today's field was Tim Butt's horse River Field & he was like a Cello Player in a Marching Band he got back so far behind the leader. To the front and keep on rolling. Speed holds. If he sits up and leaves anything in the legs of River Field then Butt runs him down. Watch a few of Darren's drives on Vegas Bound when he was on song, they were exactly the same. Go to the top & bottom out the field. There's nothing suspicious about it. I wish that more of them would drive the track that way.

[racefair]

[QUOTE=triplev123;13502][VVV] The horse could have had a myriad of problems holding it back and maybe Darren has been able to get over the top of them. Who knows? If you asked him I'm sure he'd tell you.

Hi [vvv],I find your analysis interesting. Can you suggest what problem/s could be worked out that would give a 3.5 sec improvement?

[Diesel]

Hi [vvv],I find your analysis interesting. Can you suggest what problem/s could be worked out that would give a 3.5 sec improvement?[/QUOTE]

Careful fellas there are some protected topics in here......Dont question a Hancock.
It wasnt that long ago Mr Pizzuto was given a roasting in here for his drive and ultimately got 12 months. Luke McCarthy had a similar situation on Saturday night and an enquiry has been opened BUT NOT A WORD OF IT IN HERE.......

Matt Rue should be looking at a similar suspension if they are consistent.

[William]

It did look very ordinary on Saturday night, I have to agree.

[p plater]

[QUOTE=racefair;13517]

[VVV] The horse could have had a myriad of problems holding it back and maybe Darren has been able to get over the top of them. Who knows? If you asked him I'm sure he'd tell you.

Hi [vvv],I find your analysis interesting. Can you suggest what problem/s could be worked out that would give a 3.5 sec improvement?

Maybe the timing was out, based on times he's improved about 46m and would have lead Smoken Up by 17m at the 400m mark

[Greg Hando]

Where ever money is involved there will always be corruption! there are a lot more out there that use different ways to either win a race or pull there horses up especially when favorite, I have been following Harness racing for over 30 years and i have seen quite a lot, I won't mention any names but there is on fellow that never tried on a favorite unless it was a big win prize or he was on a roughie, and what i am saying is fact, i used to keep data bases on all horses Trials, Sales, Wins And Mile Rates etc, i used to earn a second income, but the past 2 years has been unbelievable, you can throw any type of form out the window as horses being beaten by 40 metres on there merits are winning their next starts. How?? Unless they have a little help!! It's impossible for them to show form reversal. In saying that on hearing that there is 37 plus races that are under scrutiny tells me that i had no chance of investing my money for a return. All areas of a harness race need to be looked at here's a few.
1.Any horse or driver leading with slow sectionals, both be banned for 3 months. there should be a minimum set of lead times for all distances.
2.Favorites that that don't perform to expectations, both be banned for 3 months.
3.Form reversal horses beaten out of sight last start barring an incident, both be banned for 3 months.
4.If a trainer has 2 or more in a race and one is favorite but doesn't put in an effort and is beaten by a stablemate, every endeavor should be made by stewards to find out why, because there are many races where the favorite or form horse loses when it should have had every thing going for it to win unless it fell over.
These are only a few incidences that need addressing and if HRNSW want integrity back in this sport they need too think that it the punting public that keeps them afloat and the more they are betting on bad investments because of corruptness the more they will give it away.

G'gay Ron i like your rule no 1 about leading in races and the time that should be run
well thank's for the SCOOP about the sectional times their has been a policy in place for every track for time limit's for the first half of the last mile for a few season's now and is in place and enforced so perhap's you could cross number 1 out along with no 2 do you ever have an off day horses do as well
No 3 yes form reversal should be looked into more aggressively and no 4 they already have inquiries for this just my thought's