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Thread: HRA's performance records for horses born in the late 70's and 80's are incomplete

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    HRA's performance records for horses born in the late 70's and 80's are incomplete

    We all know that the HRA db does not contain Horse Performance records prior to 1980 but it is the incomplete nature of them for the 1980's which need a lot of work or at least an * to say 'these records are incomplete'

    Sure it is understandable that we were just going online at the time but incomplete records can be very misleading and people need a date from which they can be relied upon

    Here are some examples

    Black Top (1978) is listed as having won $101,089 with a record of 13 starts and 3 wins and when you click on the Racing Performances tab for him you will only see 13 starts listed for him (all in 1984) but with a little further investigation you will notice that these races do not produce $101k of prizemoney. Starts: 13 should at the very least be 13* (* incomplete). Black Top won a NSW Derby heat in 1982. If you are doing research for breeding or sale purposes you need to know that HRA records from around the early 80's cannot be relied on. It would almost be better if they were non existent (like pre 1980) than misleading by being incomplete

    Under A Cloud (1976) only has 11 starts from 1984 listed and once again it doesn't match his prizemoney total listed for him. He won the 1980 Vic Derby. Better to see nothing listed so that you know you need to look elsewhere

    There are hundreds of examples like this but what can make you believe them, is that for some horses you will see results from 81, 82, 83

    Strong Recommendation: If you are looking at a late 70's/early 80's horse check him/her at

    https://classicfamilies.azurewebsite...sedetails.aspx

    Or if you have the year books from around this period, check them
    Just like you have to for horses from the early 70's and earlier, use these resources
    If he/she is on classicfamilies, they have won a classic race or have progeny that have
    HRA may lead you to believe otherwise

    If HRA cannot afford to have all the data entered from say the 1980 year book onwards then they should * incomplete records, delete incomplete horse performance records (a bit drastic) or provide a warning at the top of the list which clearly states from what year onwards their records are complete

    I edited this to include the 80's see post 8
    Last edited by Messenger; 05-11-2022 at 06:21 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    Or be old fashioned like me. I have every Australian Trotting Year Book from the mid-70's up to the last in 2000 when HRA, in its infinite wisdom, decided it was easier (for it, not us) to attach "chronicles" to the HRA website. I'll give you the tip, of I wanted to look up a horse's performances in any particular year or feature race I can do it within a minute from where I am sitting now.

    Try looking up the Mildura Cup winner for 1977 on the HRA website. Make sure you make a fresh pot of tea to drink while you scour through the pages.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    I did say Classic Families or the Year Book, Trev
    I reckon I might find the 77 Cup winner a little faster on Classic but it will not tell me the field, handicap, time, driver and exact date which the Yr Bk does if you look up more than the Principal races section. The early Yr Bk's did not have this section but they all had a clubs meetings index.

    Classic's plus is the winners breeding (which is what Classics is about)
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  4. #4
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Holy cow, forget getting the late 70's right, HRA are a 2 laps behind NZ - their performance records go back to 1955
    You have to say this is an indictment against HRA
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Showgrounds will become famous soon enough
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    Trainers and drivers records are also hit and miss

    It is not just the horses I have a problem with on the HRA website. The trainers and drivers records can't be used as a definitive source of information.

    I see Howard James trained and drove a winner at Menangle today. Does his name ring a bell? He was formerly Brian Hancock's foreman and drove Thorate to victory in the 1990 Inter-Dominion final.

    Either that was not a feature race or HRA does not recognize Howard James' achievement as significant as winning a Breeders' Crown final.

    https://www.harness.org.au/racing/drivers/howard-james/

    I note that James' record as a driver only goes back to 1990/91, his Inter-Dominion win being the previous season. Whatever, HRA's records diminish his record as a driver whereas records for other drivers go back to 1980/81.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Understandably if you don't spend money on employees and technology a website can become a bit of a dog's breakfast which appears to be the case with HRA.
    Most would have seen this at the bottom of their homepage
    (to be continued next post)
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  7. #7
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Don't click on Read More
    or else you will get this!!!
    Is it any wonder that I have not been able to get a trainer column added to their horse performances pages

    NB the writing at the top This domain may be for sale

    I am guessing we must have once owned the domain interdomhof as well as interdomhalloffame and it has never been cleaned up
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    It is worse than I thought

    Late 80's records are not complete

    Use HRA Search to look up Village Kid

    https://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/...on=main.search

    His racing performances chart is a complete mess
    You would have hoped that for a champion foaled in the 80's we might get his whole racing performance

    Not only do we not get anything before 1985, it is all the gaps (not declared mind you) that are the worst,
    you would not know that he raced in 1989 much less won 3 heats of the Interdominion in 1989
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Adaptor will become famous soon enough
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    Village Kid Career Record....one of many

    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    It is worse than I thought

    Late 80's records are not complete

    Use HRA Search to look up Village Kid

    https://www.harness.org.au/ausbreed/...on=main.search

    His racing performances chart is a complete mess
    You would have hoped that for a champion foaled in the 80's we might get his whole racing performance

    Not only do we not get anything before 1985, it is all the gaps (not declared mind you) that are the worst,
    you would not know that he raced in 1989 much less won 3 heats of the Interdominion in 1989
    For more than 30 years, Bendigo trots historian Stephen Spark has compiled hundreds of accurate career records of notable horses. His original career record charts were compiled on a typewriter.

    Steve has scanned the charts and they have been uploaded into the Harness Racing Heritage Collection at Lord's Raceway site on Victorian Collections.

    Click here to go straight to Village KId:
    https://victoriancollections.net.au/...29d6bc59eeacb4

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Stallion Messenger will become famous soon enough Messenger's Avatar
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    Thanks Noel and Stephen (HRA should have gifted Stephen a computer and our records would be better )

    This is a link to the alphabetical list of horse that Stephen typed up

    https://victoriancollections.net.au/...64170a47d0e9b3
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