G HALL Jnr driving style

[Maorisidol]

You cannot compare the Butt and Hall drives as when Butt had the opportunity to push out it was prior to the designated ease out pole and he would definitely have been suspended for doing so. The Hall/Lewis incident was after the pole and Lewis endeavoured to hold his position but Hall had the momentum and the superior speed. The only suspension possibility was if jostling was involved and they appeared to be equally complicit in this regard.

As mentioned previously the clever thing for Lewis to have done was to have his horses legs outside the three wide horse thus closing any gap for Hall. dasher VC is not the best gated horse going around either and it was not surprising to see him pace roughly when pressure was applied. This is Grand Circuit racing at the highest level and you can expect similar moves in the rest of the heats and the final. Pretty much any outward movement after the 600m is permissible provided you have an advantage on the outside horse.

Would love to have this rule clarified, and, can fair play say the reason the rule came into existence is so horses who need a run can push out when....A HORSE ON ITS OUTSIDE IS GONZO! UNDER THE WHIP! STRUGGLING! ETC...
From what i saw as i first said in the opening post, Dasher was all dressed up and ready to go, ready to pull 3 wide, HOWEVER, cleverly his driver was also keeping ITMQ pocketed for as long as possible, thats called race tactics!!! Hence Hall had no right to nearly cause Dasher to gallop/fall/get injured/lose money/lose points etc.
So Chariots you say "Pretty much any outward movement after the 600m is permissible provided you have an advantage on the outside horse."
I feel he did not have an advantage, he should get a holiday, hes got time for doing it before and not to mention when someone did wrong by him in a race last year he got time for hitting that driver with his whip after they crossed the line!!! Theres the character of the man...
Cant wait for stewards report.

[Danno]

Would love to have this rule clarified, and, can fair play say the reason the rule came into existence is so horses who need a run can push out when....A HORSE ON ITS OUTSIDE IS GONZO! UNDER THE WHIP! STRUGGLING! ETC...
From what i saw as i first said in the opening post, Dasher was all dressed up and ready to go, ready to pull 3 wide, HOWEVER, cleverly his driver was also keeping ITMQ pocketed for as long as possible, thats called race tactics!!! Hence Hall had no right to nearly cause Dasher to gallop/fall/get injured/lose money/lose points etc.
So Chariots you say "Pretty much any outward movement after the 600m is permissible provided you have an advantage on the outside horse."
I feel he did not have an advantage, he should get a holiday, hes got time for doing it before and not to mention when someone did wrong by him in a race last year he got time for hitting that driver with his whip after they crossed the line!!! Theres the character of the man...
Cant wait for stewards report.

G'day Ash,
I know from you're earlier post GH Jnr is not your fav person, but that aside, there is a push out rule for a couple of reasons..to give all horses a chance and reduce the griping from the punters about "the trotters always get boxed in". It has been about for quite a few years, in NSW since around ther mid to late 80's if my memory serves me.
Before that it had been in existence in New Zealand for decades! I remember as a kid watching Phil Coulson pushing out from the rails and winning the 1971 Christchurch Inter final on Junior's Image, brilliant drive!! Subsequently lost the race to Stella Frost ( Doody Townley)due to a hotly disputed but nontheless upheld positive swab.

I can tell you from experience, if the inside horse has a head to neck advantage over the outside horse, he will usually succeed in getting out, if the outside horse has the same advantage you are hard pressed to budge him, however if the two horses are level, which ever horse is going the strongest will have it's way, if the outside horse ( in this case Dasher VC) had a bucket full of petrol in the tank he would have held his ground.

I am neither a fan nor a detractor of GH Jnr, but I enjoyed watching his drive... there are some who attempt this move and cause havoc because they try and run out at 90 degrees, I thought he caused as little interference to the other horse as possible while giving his own horse every chance within the rules..doing his job I'd call it.

Cheers,

Dan

[Maorisidol]

G'day Ash,
I know from you're earlier post GH Jnr is not your fav person, but that aside, there is a push out rule for a couple of reasons..to give all horses a chance and reduce the griping from the punters about "the trotters always get boxed in". It has been about for quite a few years, in NSW since around ther mid to late 80's if my memory serves me.
Before that it had been in existence in New Zealand for decades! I remember as a kid watching Phil Coulson pushing out from the rails and winning the 1973? Inter final on Junior's Image, brilliant drive!! Subsequently lost the race to Stella Frost ( Doody Townley)due to a hotly disputed but nontheless upheld positive swab.

I can tell you from experience, if the inside horse has a head to neck advantage over the outside horse, he will usually succeed in getting out, if the outside horse has the same advantage you are hard pressed to budge him, however if the two horses are level, which ever horse is going the strongest will have it's way, if the outside horse ( in this case Dasher VC) had a bucket full of petrol in the tank he would have held his ground.

I am neither a fan nor a detractor of GH Jnr, but I enjoyed watching his drive... there are some who attempt this move and cause havoc because they try and run out at 90 degrees, I thought he caused as little interference to the other horse as possible while giving his own horse every chance within the rules..doing his job I'd call it.

Cheers,

Dan

Thnx Dan, I hear ya.
My main gripe is "nearly cause Dasher to gallop/fall/get injured/lose money/lose points etc" if I owned Dasher and he very nearly injured my horse Hall would know about it fullon!
And my other point Dasher was still traveling well...

[Triple V]

I'm very surprised that you can't see the significant parallels there Robert. I really am. Driving wise, if they're not cut from the same bolt of cloth I'll eat my old lawn mowing shoes.

[hillbillydeluxe]

Good for him.........G.Hall , I am not a fan but at the same time he was shoulder to shoulder. At least he shows agression not like some drivers such as Grant Williams who shows zero initiative and because of that Chromac Johhny will not make the final and he is one of the better local horses.
I have driven both pacers and ridden gallopers and learnt early on if you do not push out it can cost you dearly, Lewis as good as a driver he was should have pushed Hall back in, they after all very good drivers. It is racing afterall..............prizemoney and punting dollars are on the line.

[Triple V]

Comparing Hall Jr to Ron Pierce, that's a gem : ) Having spent the better part of the last 3 years in the States I can 100% guarantee you, that you'd never find Pierce asleep at the wheel in a 8-10K Claimer let alone in a heat of the Meadowlands Pace, BC or Hambo. I was chatting to a guy last night at the track that told me that Hall Jr had been suspended twice in the last year or so for misjudging the distance of races.

[VVV]
HP writes [Having spent the better part of the last 3 years in the States I can 100% guarantee you, that you'd never find Pierce asleep at the wheel in a 8-10K Claimer let alone in a heat of the Meadowlands Pace, BC or Hambo.]
Never eh? Never you say. It pre dates your time there Robert so there's somewhat of a plausible 'out' for you, however if you ever get a chance to do so, watch the replay of 1 of the $700,000 2006 3yo Pacing Colts Breeders Crown Elims. at Woodbine. Pierce was responsible for knocking down almost the entire field AFTER the finish line, injuring a number of horses in the process, putting John Campbell in hospital for months with a badly broken leg & causing the death of promising colt, Scootin Delight. In my book that's at the very, very least...asleep at the wheel.
I mention that incident not to knock Pierce but rather to rebuff your comment that 'you'll 100% guarentee me that I'd never find him asleep at the wheel'...and to underline the fact that both horsemen drive inspired races and they drive bad ones.

[teecee]

To all who like to use that notorious word in their posts GUARANTEE.....watchit...!!!!!!

[strong persuader]

Stewards inquired into the reason for DASHER VC NZ (Chris Lewis) racing roughly in the back straight on the final occasion. It was established that as the field entered the back straight on the final occasion, Gary Hall Jnr (IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ) had moved to the three-wide line inside DASHER VC NZ, with Chris Lewis applying pressure to resist any further outward shift from Mr Hall. As IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ made ground, to the inside of DASHER VC NZ, wheel to wheel pressure was relieved resulting in there being slight contact to the hind leg of DASHER VC NZ, which raced roughly. Stewards took no action over the matter as they were satisfied that IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ had maintained its racing line and the pressure applied by Chris Lewis had been a significant factor in the incident.

From the Stewards' Report http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-r...fm?mc=GP200212

There you are, like it or lump it we have rules that allow pushing out, therefore we will continue to have examples of horses that make an early move three wide have their task made harder because drivers that couldn't/wouldn't go earlier will then shunt them out of the way when they want to go!

[Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild]

Stewards inquired into the reason for DASHER VC NZ (Chris Lewis) racing roughly in the back straight on the final occasion. It was established that as the field entered the back straight on the final occasion, Gary Hall Jnr (IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ) had moved to the three-wide line inside DASHER VC NZ, with Chris Lewis applying pressure to resist any further outward shift from Mr Hall. As IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ made ground, to the inside of DASHER VC NZ, wheel to wheel pressure was relieved resulting in there being slight contact to the hind leg of DASHER VC NZ, which raced roughly. Stewards took no action over the matter as they were satisfied that IM THEMIGHTYQUINN NZ had maintained its racing line and the pressure applied by Chris Lewis had been a significant factor in the incident.

From the Stewards' Report http://www.harness.org.au/stewards-r...fm?mc=GP200212

There you are, like it or lump it we have rules that allow pushing out, therefore we will continue to have examples of horses that make an early move three wide have their task made harder because drivers that couldn't/wouldn't go earlier will then shunt them out of the way when they want to go!

Its 'prison rules' then, is it?

[Harold Parker]

[VVV]
HP writes [Having spent the better part of the last 3 years in the States I can 100% guarantee you, that you'd never find Pierce asleep at the wheel in a 8-10K Claimer let alone in a heat of the Meadowlands Pace, BC or Hambo.]
Never eh? Never you say. It pre dates your time there Robert so there's somewhat of a plausible 'out' for you, however if you ever get a chance to do so, watch the replay of 1 of the $700,000 2006 3yo Pacing Colts Breeders Crown Elims. at Woodbine. Pierce was responsible for knocking down almost the entire field AFTER the finish line, injuring a number of horses in the process, putting John Campbell in hospital for months with a badly broken leg & causing the death of promising colt, Scootin Delight. In my book that's at the very, very least...asleep at the wheel.
I mention that incident not to knock Pierce but rather to rebuff your comment that 'you'll 100% guarentee me that I'd never find him asleep at the wheel'...and to underline the fact that both horsemen drive inspired races and they drive bad ones.

That incident occurred when they were crossing the wire at high speed and for whatever reason the horse ducked in very sharply. His drive for a half dozen strides tops was borderline uncontrollable. Was it intentional ? of course not. It was a terrible incident but not premeditated.

How can you compare that to the drive on ITMQ ? Hall stayed in at the 800 with the intention of rolling out underneath Dasher VC 300m later putting his own drive and Chris Lewis in danger. It wasn't by chance or a freak accident it was intentional. A comparison using your example would be if Pierce was in the pocket and Campbell moved up to his outside, saw him too late and knocked him over at the Half.

The suggestion that if Dasher VC was going a little better he'd of held his line is total rubbish. If Lewis was a rat bag and drove Dasher VC as nonsensical as Hall drove ITMQ, both horses could quite possibly be buried in the back straight and out of the series. Hall drove a Ferrari F1 like a Datsun 180B at the Parramatta Speedway : )