NSW 2yo Fillies racing opportunities. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE!!!!!!!!!!

[aussiebreno]

How about admins let the normal 2yo races stand up even when there are only 6 or 7 noms. That's probably another reason for lower field numbers at Bulli and why there will be even less exposed form at Bathurst than usual.

[The Form Student]

A lot of clubs are now making the 2YO race the last race on the program.......probably because there is little interest in betting on unraced 2YO's.....these young horses are having to wait around alnight before they get their turn!!!

[aussiebreno]

Harvey and Daryl,

Harvey - Is that the case in NSW? I know there is a 'lift/drop back' for mares in VIC but is it the case up here? You nominate and see race conditions a lot more so yes I could be wrong, a long time since I've read the race programming section of the Gazette or online!

My sentiments for a 'lift/drop back' pertain to all mares, irrespective of the race. It could be a C6 mare dropping back and becoming eligible for a C4 race with junior.

The industry needs mares winning, putting times down and winning good money in order to sustain the breeding industry which fundamentally is on it's knees.

It doesn't matter that you might have a 'half sister' to this great mare, or whatever, if she only put's $20,000 next to her name (or worse), with really no performance, she won't, nor will her stock become commercially viable, and yes there would be the occassional exception to the rule however you know where I'm coming from.

I have been involved with great stables in the past who had exceptional mares but they had too, and were subsquently burnt out by racing the boys week in-week out. They all got to the M3/M4/M5 class (did super jobs), but it was done over 100 races and were quite simply knackered at the end of it, hence I'm adamant that this effects their breeding capabilities (None have turned out a really good horse as yet)

If you could retire a mare after her 4 or 5 yr old season with 50 starts next to her name and $50,000 - $100,000 dependant on her success, a.) you wouldn't have a tired mare who then your asking to carry a foal which is a heave in itself, but b.) your giving yourself and the breeding industry an injection of quality, measured performance and the buyers will rhave confidence in the product (yearling) being put forward and respond with purchase.

You also have the ability by your mare winning good money to afford a bank to start breeding her properly and not face a black hole or bottomless pit of money awaiting trying to breed a mare who won nothing, yet your trying to aim to jag a $30,000 foal out of her, yeh good luck with that!

Daryl,

I'm sorry mate, but as awful as this sounds, I couldn't give a shit about C0 racing. If I was an industry leader and I was having to look at adjustments/clauses reconfiguration for C0 racing, fundamentally, I am rewarding mediocrity.

They may be the 'bread and butter' as you put it and yes, I know the perspective your coming from, however all owners should, and in this case more importantly, administrators be aspiring to better the class and standard of metro racing as without successful metro class racing, you won't have a product to sell to the masses/TAB in the future. It's as simple as that.

A vast majority of horses currently racing as C0's/C1's aren't worth two bob and in my opinion again, it's a disgrace that they get punched around lingering on the hope to their trainer and owners that they'll win a race - somewhere, anywhere.

It costs the same to feed a bad one as it does a good one and to a large degree, the better the horse, the cheaper it is to train and you can give it less starts in better class races, thus racing for and earning better prizemoney, promoting satisfaction to all whilst the overall product is better.

You don't see Bill Gates or the late Steve Jobs aspire to improve a class of the computer industry that everyone has done/is doing, keeping the 'bread and butter' happy, they implement product that betters the overall industry, time and again, taking their innovation and quality of product higher and higher, thus the marketplace is drawn to their success and their industries power ahead constantly.

Yes but a heck of a lot of people buy the latest technology. Not many horses reach the top grade.

[Triple V]

...of those 11 precious 2yo fillies only events carded here in NSW between today (Feb 23rd) and the 31st of May, 4 of them are for Restricted Grade $ (3k each). Charming stuff that. Little wonder yearling fillies sell for 4/5ths of bugger all.

[mightymo]

Harvey and Daryl,

Harvey - Is that the case in NSW? I know there is a 'lift/drop back' for mares in VIC but is it the case up here? You nominate and see race conditions a lot more so yes I could be wrong, a long time since I've read the race programming section of the Gazette or online!

My sentiments for a 'lift/drop back' pertain to all mares, irrespective of the race. It could be a C6 mare dropping back and becoming eligible for a C4 race with junior.

The industry needs mares winning, putting times down and winning good money in order to sustain the breeding industry which fundamentally is on it's knees.

It doesn't matter that you might have a 'half sister' to this great mare, or whatever, if she only put's $20,000 next to her name (or worse), with really no performance, she won't, nor will her stock become commercially viable, and yes there would be the occassional exception to the rule however you know where I'm coming from.

I have been involved with great stables in the past who had exceptional mares but they had too, and were subsquently burnt out by racing the boys week in-week out. They all got to the M3/M4/M5 class (did super jobs), but it was done over 100 races and were quite simply knackered at the end of it, hence I'm adamant that this effects their breeding capabilities (None have turned out a really good horse as yet)

If you could retire a mare after her 4 or 5 yr old season with 50 starts next to her name and $50,000 - $100,000 dependant on her success, a.) you wouldn't have a tired mare who then your asking to carry a foal which is a heave in itself, but b.) your giving yourself and the breeding industry an injection of quality, measured performance and the buyers will rhave confidence in the product (yearling) being put forward and respond with purchase.

You also have the ability by your mare winning good money to afford a bank to start breeding her properly and not face a black hole or bottomless pit of money awaiting trying to breed a mare who won nothing, yet your trying to aim to jag a $30,000 foal out of her, yeh good luck with that!

Daryl,

I'm sorry mate, but as awful as this sounds, I couldn't give a shit about C0 racing. If I was an industry leader and I was having to look at adjustments/clauses reconfiguration for C0 racing, fundamentally, I am rewarding mediocrity.

They may be the 'bread and butter' as you put it and yes, I know the perspective your coming from, however all owners should, and in this case more importantly, administrators be aspiring to better the class and standard of metro racing as without successful metro class racing, you won't have a product to sell to the masses/TAB in the future. It's as simple as that.

A vast majority of horses currently racing as C0's/C1's aren't worth two bob and in my opinion again, it's a disgrace that they get punched around lingering on the hope to their trainer and owners that they'll win a race - somewhere, anywhere.

It costs the same to feed a bad one as it does a good one and to a large degree, the better the horse, the cheaper it is to train and you can give it less starts in better class races, thus racing for and earning better prizemoney, promoting satisfaction to all whilst the overall product is better.

You don't see Bill Gates or the late Steve Jobs aspire to improve a class of the computer industry that everyone has done/is doing, keeping the 'bread and butter' happy, they implement product that betters the overall industry, time and again, taking their innovation and quality of product higher and higher, thus the marketplace is drawn to their success and their industries power ahead constantly.

Nathan

In NSW things are in fact as you desire.

A c5 mare can in fact race as a c3 with a junior. The exception to that is that you cant claim dowm from c1/m1 to co/m0.

What we desperately need IMO is:

1. Ability for fillies/mares to only race fillies/mares throughout their entire career at all levels

2. Special series of mares races for 4yo's.(outside of Breeders crown and statebred series) Once they finish their 3yo careers they are straight away thrown up against seasoned older mares which makes things very tough

If you are lucky enough to get a good filly/mare like I did with Arctic Fire and you get through to say M4 class, then you have to either struggle against the open class boys or go to the breeding barn. The only alternative is to go to the USA where you can race against mares for very good money every week of the year...

[Triple V]

Just a minute.........Racing adminstrators only have to look at the poor fields for 2YO fillies in the current Lynden Huntley Series to decide that fillies don't need more races..........5 colts & geldings heats (full fields) & 3 fillies heats with only 6-7 runners in each...........some lucky owner/trainer out of only 20 fillies is going to win a $50,000 prize...........pretty good odds to me...........maybe when some analysis is done of 2YO fillies nominations and they improve more race will be programmed.........probably a lot of trainers think that thay should just wait a bit longer with the fillies before racing them???

[VVV] Nah, it has unfrotunately become...well, in fact if HRNSW were being honest with themselves, it has long been...a self-fulfilling prophecy Steve. The chicken and the egg scenario being played out with 2yo fillies and in all of its gorey glory.
The race clubs simply don't program the 2yo fillies only races to start with, instead they'd prefer to mindlessly spew forth 2C0's and 2C0-2C1's until the cows come home, thus forcing the sexes together and seeing to it that 2yo fillies annually get their heads summarily beaten in by the colts. Not surprisingly owners duly stop buying them at the sales or privately and/or their breeders stop racing them because it is simply not viable for them to do so...therefore nominations suffer because there are fewer 2yo fillies noms...therefore instantly there's something that the hoast of race programming bozos throughout the State can point to and hang their respective hats upon in order to justify why they don't program 2yo fillies only races. Around and around it goes.
As crazy as it sounds, the VERY WORST thing the owner of a bread and butter 2yo filly can have happen to him early in the season is for that filly to win a race...because, for the rest of the year, whenever opportunities come about for a start that filly will go off in a 2C0/2C1 & give the first starter non winning colts the front line every single time. Effectively, once a moderate 2yo filly wins a race, any race, here in NSW then you may as well send her off to the paddock because you'll spend the rest of the season chasing your tail. Once she comes back at 3yrs and if you're lucky enough to win another one, you may as well retire her to stud because it gets even harder than it was the previous season. Come back at 4yrs and you're a dreamer....you'll get even fewer opportunities for your now mare to race against her own sex.
Of course, getting down to the nitty gritty, ultimately THE BIGGEST SINGLE ISSUE that we have here in NSW is that WE DO NOT HAVE CENTRALISED PROGRAMMING. Instead, we time and time again suffer at the hands of a series of myopic individuals intent on nothing more nor less than maintaining their positions sitting atop various race club dunghills throughout the State. As a result, ultimately nothing changes.
HRNSW needs to seize control of the entire race programming responsibilities in this State and then act in the best interests of the long term viability of the Industry......otherwise this State will become just like WA, a satellite of NZ totally awash with NZ breds at the expense of local breeder/owner/racers. At this juncture it should also be noted that the vast majority of racing owners in Australia, and it is no different here in NSW, are also Breeders. The most recent HRA Breeders Survey confirmed same. In fact the vast majority of Breeders not only in this State but in this Country, breed to race. If HRNSW wishes to kill off both groups then they need do no more than continue to neglect reasonable racing opportunities for 2yo fillies.

[Triple V]

May be a good way to protect the 2yo baby girls from over racing. When they've had a bit more time to grow and race well as 3yo+ you may think that it wasn't such a bad idea after all.

[VVV] G'day Tim. You know, if I knew that it was intentional from the point of view of 'protecting' them or whatever...I wouldn't agree with it mind you...but I could at least understand the thinking behind it and the owners of 2yo fillies could make a genuine attempt to wear it...but the problem is, that is not the case.
Unfortunately there are no altruistic motives involved here. Rather, it is simply the culmination of years of administrative ignorance and neglect.

[murray green]

My mate bred 3 this year.....yep all girls.....not happy Jan !!!

[Triple V]

Nathan

In NSW things are in fact as you desire.

A c5 mare can in fact race as a c3 with a junior. The exception to that is that you cant claim dowm from c1/m1 to co/m0.

What we desperately need IMO is:

1. Ability for fillies/mares to only race fillies/mares throughout their entire career at all levels

2. Special series of mares races for 4yo's.(outside of Breeders crown and statebred series) Once they finish their 3yo careers they are straight away thrown up against seasoned older mares which makes things very tough

If you are lucky enough to get a good filly/mare like I did with Arctic Fire and you get through to say M4 class, then you have to either struggle against the open class boys or go to the breeding barn. The only alternative is to go to the USA where you can race against mares for very good money every week of the year...

[VVV] G'day Harvey,
If I could wave a magic wand I would deliver you all that in a heartbeat however the track records of HRA & the various State bodies do not fill me with any great hope for change. I think an alternative is to quite significantly ramp up 2yo fillies only & 3yo fillies only racing opportunities, the general expectation being that at the end of their 3yo season the majority of them would then retire to stud. IMO such an approach would have numerous inherent +++'s to it. Maybe a bit on the radical side but I firmly believe it would work.

[Old Frank]

Nathan

In NSW things are in fact as you desire.

A c5 mare can in fact race as a c3 with a junior. The exception to that is that you cant claim dowm from c1/m1 to co/m0.

What we desperately need IMO is:

1. Ability for fillies/mares to only race fillies/mares throughout their entire career at all levels

2. Special series of mares races for 4yo's.(outside of Breeders crown and statebred series) Once they finish their 3yo careers they are straight away thrown up against seasoned older mares which makes things very tough

If you are lucky enough to get a good filly/mare like I did with Arctic Fire and you get through to say M4 class, then you have to either struggle against the open class boys or go to the breeding barn. The only alternative is to go to the USA where you can race against mares for very good money every week of the year...

Amen Harvey!

I was once involved with a stable that had 3 runners in a Ladyship Mile (2 runners and an emergency) similar to the level you talk about with Arctic Fire so hence my point earlier, outside of 6 weeks racing against their own sex in the lead-up to get picked for the Ladyship, they have to race for 46 weeks against the boys and they would win their odd race, but week in, week out, they were going super but just found it too tough.

Actually in those years also, their wasn't as many female lead-up races either making it tougher for them!

If you don't cycle these mares correctly in all grades, every week, you are not building a future breeding cycle, anyone that say's different just doesn't get it.

I looked at the Trotguide 2 weeks back and do you know, taking out the feature mares lead-up, plus the trotters race left 6 races and out of those approx. 60 horses, only 6 were mares! Disgraceful.

This is why the fillies (besides the one or two leading lots which are fundamentally brought to try and acheive Futrity success), get the widest of berths at the sales as there is no attraction/potential avenue for success for them.

Two races at Menangle each week - M0-M3 and M3+ for mares only. I stand by it, it should be a must.

Why can Randwick, Rosehill, whatever track hosts metro gallops each week afford a mares only race, is it so hard to programme and support? I think not.