Luke Mccarthy enquiry adjourned

[broncobrad]

What puzzles me more than anything else at this point is that in recent times here in NSW we've had a Trainer score no less than an apparent Methamphetamine positive, it being an illegal drug that puts you in jail if you're found in possession of it...and we've had another Trainer score an EPO positive, it being a highly restricted and prescription only Human medication that has apparently somehow turned up in his horse...and yet nobody seems to want their respective Jatz Crackers hanging from a Flag Pole?????
All that anyone and their dogs want to bang on about is Luke's Boldenone overage.
I think the outrage is underwhelming when you consider the lynch mob mentality not that long ago on this forum, those who were baying for blood and having Luke drawn and quartered would only have appeased 1/10 of his detractors. Even tonight by those standards its pretty quiet on here. Maybe the state of origin about to kick off may be a diversion.
Some significant Double Standards at work perhaps?
I think it was Bruce Fox who recently went for 6 months for Salbutamol/Ventolin and apparently nobody gave a bugger. Copped his punishment, sweet.
Old mate the Vet from Liverpool also went for Clenbuterol and again nobody gave a bugger. Barry went for 6 months for exactly the same thing that Luke has gone for 9 months for and once again, as far as Barry was concerned, apparently nobody really gave a bugger. I don't think Barry was ignored at all Triple, the whole boldenone saga got a good airing. He lost his Dad recently and I think people showed enough good grace to go easy.
The difference between those 3 blokes and Luke? Yep, that's right...here's where the hypocrisy runs rife.
Those three blokes were not winning race after race after race, week after a week after week...so they were not seen as competition to anywhere near the same degree, so basically nobody cared. Luke was competition however & the outrage is duly multiplied 20 fold.
Race clean, race fair...my arse. It's smoke and mirrors and by and large it is not about those noble aims at all. Must be missing something here Jaimie, if it is not about integrity and a level playing field, what is it. The stewards cannot just say, oh shit its Luke, lets go quiet. They kept the issue open and public and dispensed justice to him as they would have to any other rule breaker.
If it was then the supporters of those views would have thumped Bruce & the Vet & Barry just as much...which they quite clearly have not. This is big target, Tall Poppy stuff, no more, no less. Each one of those blokes, including Luke, has scored just (1) positive...but thus far only one of them has worn the full weight of public criticism.

It may well be tall poppy syndrome but he is being treated the same as any other licencee who falls foul. Consistency is a pretty hard ideal to invoke but these guys are doing as good a job as they can within the rules and framework that they have to administer. And to clarify one thing. I was a supporter of Luke and I loved his driving style of putting his horses into a race. So to say I am dissapointed in this whole sorry saga is a big understatement.

[Diablo]

Some real Twits on here that think just because Belinda McCarthy has a trainer's Licence she woul be just as accomplished as Luke. Give me a break! How many of the top trainers in the world have spouses as equal in training knowledge or ability as the trainer himself/herself?

[racefair]

What puzzles me more than anything else at this point is that in recent times here in NSW we've had a Trainer score no less than an apparent Methamphetamine positive, it being an illegal drug that puts you in jail if you're found in possession of it...and we've had another Trainer score an EPO positive, it being a highly restricted and prescription only Human medication that has apparently somehow turned up in his horse...and yet nobody seems to want their respective Jatz Crackers hanging from a Flag Pole?????
All that anyone and their dogs want to bang on about is Luke's Boldenone overage. Some significant Double Standards at work perhaps?
I think it was Bruce Fox who recently went for 6 months for Salbutamol/Ventolin and apparently nobody gave a bugger. Old mate the Vet from Liverpool also went for Clenbuterol and again nobody gave a bugger. Barry went for 6 months for exactly the same thing that Luke has gone for 9 months for and once again, as far as Barry was concerned, apparently nobody really gave a bugger.
The difference between those 3 blokes and Luke? Yep, that's right...here's where the hypocrisy runs rife.
Those three blokes were not winning race after race after race, week after a week after week...so they were not seen as competition to anywhere near the same degree, so basically nobody cared. Luke was competition however & the outrage is duly multiplied 20 fold.
Race clean, race fair...my arse. It's smoke and mirrors and by and large it is not about those noble aims at all.
If it was then the supporters of those views would have thumped Bruce & the Vet & Barry just as much...which they quite clearly have not. This is big target, Tall Poppy stuff, no more, no less. Each one of those blokes, including Luke, has scored just (1) positive...but thus far only one of them has worn the full weight of public criticism.

Jamie, I'm not sure why after all this time you still don't understand the frustration and disappointment of the harness racing community. I'll highlight a few points that I've previously brought to attention.
1. Luke's rate and nature of the improvement that he gets in horses seemed to people to be unnatural. There are few examples if any of athletes or horses improving at the rate that Luke got them to improve unless of course through medication. Refer to Thomas Tobins book and the type/rate of improvement that he'd get through stimulants, etc. and also any athletic conditioning book and the rate of improvement of elite athletes or horses.
2. Luke has improved just about every horse that he's trained and in a time that would seem unreasonable to to be the result of training alone.
3. Lukes strike rate was getting to be about 50% which was about 30% ahead of any other trainer in harness racing or thoroughbreds. Again, an unbelievable result. So then if you were racing against Luke in a 10horse field, you'd have less than a 5% chance of winning if Luke only had 1 horse in the race. You're odds decreased if he had 2.
4. XXXXXXXXXXXX
5. Old mate Vet, Barry Lew etc.. may have cheated on a small scale with a few horses. They're not beating you time after time and costing you every time you run out.
6. XXXXXXXXXXXX
So then, there could be tall poppy syndrome. . .I think however, it's more about the commercial reality of it all and that everyone wants to participate on a level playing field.

[Starship Captain]

http://www.buysteroidsaustralia.com/

It looks like a good site:¬/

[Triple V]

Make no mistake my hatred isn't at individuals as people, rather at their behaviour of cheating and doing good people out of a buck. The hatred of this is on par with all drug cheats. Some of it just gets displayed more because some are higher profile.
Luke was/is the biggest name in the sport over the past season or two. The views displayed by this forum and the wider harness racing public are human nature VVV. Not too dissimiliar to the stewards saga and your own emotions. Remember when you were more disapointed when you heard a couple of names because you really didn't expect it from them. For different characters different emotions become evoked. You were more disapointed in one case, what is wrong with others being more angry in another case? But yes, some still is the tall poppy syndrome.

[VVV] That's fair comment. From my perspective Meth & EPO Positives are reprehensible. They simply don't compare with Boldenone, Ventolin or Clenbuterol...they're not even in the same State let alone the same Post Code. It's like comparing a cannon to a pointed stick. Consequently I expected the level of outrage to be similarly applicable. Others apparently have a different view. It still amazes me that to this point nobody has said anything about the Meth & the EPO....seriously, what gives there?

[mark diegutis]

[VVV] That's fair comment. From my perspective Meth & EPO Positives are reprehensible. They simply don't compare with Boldenone, Ventolin or Clenbuterol...they're not even in the same State let alone the same Post Code. It's like comparing a cannon to a pointed stick. Consequently I expected the level of outrage to be similarly applicable. Others apparently have a different view. It still amazes me that to this point nobody has said anything about the Meth & the EPO....seriously, what gives there?

Hi Jaimie . The reason people are outraged over LM's Boldenone positive is because he has XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
The EPO and Meth positives are just as treacherous { but only as treacherous } . These trainers were lucky to be seen at a harness meeting . They are every bit as despicable . The benefits of Boldenone are , more recently , just being understood . Boldenone causes the body to produce large amounts of EPO with other benefits such as causing a healthy appetite . I think this steroid is as dangerous for our industry as any substance . Possibly the most damaging factor is that it has educated other trainers who would be willing to source and use it to gain advantage . Attached is a recent study done on the benefits of Boldenone .

One further property of boldenone that is most advantageous to athletes who partake in cardiovascular exercises is that boldenone directly stimulates the kidneys to produce erythropoeitin (EPO). EPO is a hormone that increases the number of red blood cells in your blood, thus increasing blood viscosity but more importantly allowing more oxygen to be carried to the cells in your body, improving performance of aerobic exercises. This may also help increase vascularity in users as well.

[aussiebreno]

[VVV] That's fair comment. From my perspective Meth & EPO Positives are reprehensible. They simply don't compare with Boldenone, Ventolin or Clenbuterol...they're not even in the same State let alone the same Post Code. It's like comparing a cannon to a pointed stick. Consequently I expected the level of outrage to be similarly applicable. Others apparently have a different view. It still amazes me that to this point nobody has said anything about the Meth & the EPO....seriously, what gives there?

Yes I take that on board. Roots slipped by largely unnoticed. Wonson is yet to have his inquiry completed, though I think he too will slip by largely unnoticed. The advantages of being a relative no name. Being in the public eye has its benefit but it sucks in instances like this for Luke - there is no doubt he has copped it more than others but I won't be feeling sorry for him. I'm sure Craig Thompson isn't the first bloke to use someone else's money, but he has sure copped it more than most.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Wow what a thread this has become..... the lets bash L McCarthy thread.

Lets get some truths into it.

To say L McCarthy has raped the industry simply because he has one positive swab is an absolute disgrace. Many of his winners have been swabbed and have found to be clear of prohibited substances, it would be akin to saying Karloo Mick is no good and Barry Lew would have never won a race with him because a stablemate returned a positive to a steroid.again ridiculous.

These assumptions or accusations could have been made with some validity if the test for Boldenone was discovered last November but that is not the case it has been around for a long time.

Steroids have been banned for years in both equine codes and for years trainers in both codes have experimented with ways around it, both codes any many trainers were using testosterone in very small does a couple of years back until testing again caught up, that is the nature of racing and we need to get used to it.

All the swabs and people mentioned by VVV have one thing in common the drugs that have been found in their horses are not considered therapeutic, so the authorities should act and in my view have done so accordingly, in the end in some case that will be reviewed when the cases are appealed.

Had HRNSW allowed the transfer of horses to B McCarthy not only would it have looked a joke, because regardless of her ability of otherwise it would have been a joke.

This from time to time occurred in the past but HRNSW changed their policy in August last year and have invoked it since, this is not a ruling unique to L McCarthy congratulations to them.

I do have something in common with every other person on this thread in that I have no idea how Boldenone was found in two horses last year but I do know it is in breach of the rules and to me at least it appears our rule makers have acted consistently in both cases...... as an industry what more do we want.

Last time I looked not one jurisdiction in world racing was hanging trainers for positive swabs.

[mark diegutis]

[QUOTE=Thevoiceofreason;20886]Wow what a thread this has become..... the lets bash L McCarthy thread.

Lets get some truths into it.

To say L McCarthy has raped the industry simply because he has one positive swab is an absolute disgrace. Many of his winners have been swabbed and have found to be clear of prohibited substances, it would be akin to saying Karloo Mick is no good and Barry Lew would have never won a race with him because a stablemate returned a positive to a steroid.again ridiculous.

These assumptions or accusations could have been made with some validity if the test for Boldenone was discovered last November but that is not the case it has been around for a long time.

Steroids have been banned for years in both equine codes and for years trainers in both codes have experimented with ways around it, both codes any many trainers were using testosterone in very small does a couple of years back until testing again caught up, that is the nature of racing and we need to get used to it.

All the swabs and people mentioned by VVV have one thing in common the drugs that have been found in their horses are not considered therapeutic, so the authorities should act and in my view have done so accordingly, in the end in some case that will be reviewed when the cases are appealed.

Had HRNSW allowed the transfer of horses to B McCarthy not only would it have looked a joke, because regardless of her ability of otherwise it would have been a joke.


Fair comment Voice . I think that the term "rape the industry" is how most perceive what has happened . I agree , these substances have no therapeutic value and the fact is you can't mistakenly administer it like , say , bute . I personally can't believe that someone with a "clean racing " mindset would think of using such an advanced form of cheating first time . And yet they are still hero's in this industry . I have nothing against Luke personally but I despise cheats and can't , for the life of me , understand why people hero worship harness racing trainers who cheat . The fact that 6 out of the 8 runners in the Miracle Mile were with trainers that have had positive swabs is almost unbelievable and disgusting . HRNSW is doing a great job . 28 positives lately tells me I had been banging my head against a post since I entered the industry as a trainer / driver . At this time NO ONE can go to the races and believe they are racing on a level playing field . Its quite sad talking to people around the stables and races . No one has a positive outlook and ALL talk is completely negative and Armageddon like . HRNSW have stood up to be counted . Keep it up and thanks .

[mark diegutis]

Well said.. So then if this is true then using Boldonene is similar to using EPO itself .. Maybe Lukes suspension was way too light. Good job Reid Sanders for staying strong and not folding under the pressure of a few inluential owners and high profile crooks in the game.

Yes Jett . Using this substance has other benefits besides the EPO production . It causes a veracious appetite . Horses can be worked much harder than would be normal and come home and still eat whatever is placed in front of them . These effects would give the horse an advantage for half a dozen or so starts . If trained well , their first starts would be devastating