Quote Originally Posted by dizzy View Post
vvv you may have done biology at high school but what about english comprehension?
[vvv] english teachers fondly remembered were john mazur & richard hazelwood-ross. Both great blokes. John ended up at geelong grammar i think and the last i heard richard went down south to tumbi umbi. Got a love of the written and spoken word from both of them. Would love to catch up with one or either of them again.

there were a number of direct questions in my post and it would appear that you have missed them all.
[vvv] you have seen through my clever plan. Well it was trevor's idea actually. He suggested that i ignore them but you know i can't do that dot.
we were made for each other. What night did you want to go to that little gelato place at concord?

so as you have listed your occupation as educating dot could you please please answer them if i list them out for you. You know for my education and all.
[vvv] i'll do my best.

1/ what was the name of your biology teacher? (ok that one wasn't there before)

[vvv] his name was keith. he and his wife used to breed lhasa apso's & he had a small farm just out of bathurst. We used to go out to his place sometimes on the weekend & had some great fun dropping bungers down the bore hole.
a very smart man, great teacher, really inspiring, one of the few over the years who were.

2/ vvv said "inbreeding in the true sense involves two individuals with the same immediate maternal line." please please can you provide references for this because i really really cant find it?
[vvv] you're just not looking hard enough dot. Go on. Unleash your inner blood hound and track it down. I'm cheering for you. It's there. No clues...that would be taking away the thrill of the chase & you need that to keep you sharp.

3/ is life sign over lisheen an inbred mating?
[vvv] dot, that is both an extreme & far from real world example you've ponied up there. at the very outset of this whole saga, i believe we 'were' discussing the merits of 2x3's, and (as you saw it) the perils of breeding a son of artsplace to a mare by another son of artsplace with 'the breed increasingly saturated with it' and all. Personally, i still can't for the life of me see the issue but please, move the goal post to a ridiculous position as per above by all means.

4/your american ideal/ talilia yearling and its parents how do you describe those in terms of line/inbreeding?

[vvv] geeze, you're putting me on the spot now dot.
i'm honestly not given to describing them in this fashion because i think it's an often misleading over simplification of that which is more complex... However in the spirit of keeping the debate alive, i'll give it a shot.
american ideal has quite a unique on paper pedigree in that he is bred 4x3 to full sisters (angel hair & ambiguity) on the damline of his sire, western ideal, and also of his dam, lifetime success.
for my own purposes i call that sort of arrangement 'family over family' for want of a better term....that as opposed to using the term 'inbred' to describe that, which some may admittedly contest that he is, while others maybe not so much.
(btw, artistic fella is also bred 'family over family', in his case 2 x 2 to half sisters or 3x3 to easy to easy to love, whatever takes your fancy i guess). Getting back to american ideal, he is also obviously linebred 6x5x4x4x4 to meadow skipper.
talilia, well the only thing that stands out to me is that she is linebred 2x3 to full siblings lismore & bg's bunny otherwise she is pretty wide open.
as an aside, her dam, irish town, temperament wise had a mind of her own and was a horseman's horse. Lismore, the dam of albert albert, was also somewhat of a pain in the arse in that respect. This has shown up in talilia as she also has her quirks at time. The flipside is that she leaves really lovely foals. her & i don't get on all that well actually. Nathan has her worked out better than anyone btw.

its only four little questions vvv, why don't you give it a shot?
[vvv] indeed. More than happy to keep rolling along with all this dot if you so desire. i can always use the mental calisthenics, especially so when my wife is away on business and the kids are home on school holidays. I can only take just so much sponge bob before i begin to hear squidward's voice in my sleep.
discussion & debate is also said by some sections of the medical community to greatly aid in staving off early onset alzheimer's. Did i mention that my wife was away? Do you like gelato?

ps i did physics and chemistry with all the other nerds.
[vvv] did you sit up the back and carve your initials in the desk with the sharp end of your compass? I did that in maths. Thank god for accounts & clever wives who's fathers were bank managers lest those such as myself end up in the soup line at the matthew talbot hostel.

and congenital faults have three causes, sporadic, environmental and genetic.
[vvv] some have a far greater level of occurence and of severity than others too i believe. I found a few good pieces in a book entitled horse genetics by ann t. Bowling.

quote [ a congenital abnormality is a defect of structure or function evident at birth, not neccessarily caused by defective genes]

quote [most known genetic diseases of horses do not become evident for months or even years]

quote [chromosomal and simple single gene issues are ultimately the easiest to document and understand but are rarely seen. Polygenic traits, produced by the interaction of several genes, are more likely to be the source of commonly observed defects such as those of conformation]

interesting.

genetic ones can be passed on. Dominant ones directly, and recessive ones are exposed more frequently as an inbred/linebred herd becomes increasingly homozygous.
[vvv] sounds good in theory but in real world practice i believe that there are very few dominant genetic diseases that ever get passed on (save those quarter horse ones you mentioned before which a mate tells me are not in fact or need not be lethal as they can be treated successfully with medication & mananged with fspecial eed regimes etc) & hat is simply because by definition dominant genetic diseases are effectivly going to self limit within a couple of generations. If the disease is serious enough it will ultimately severely limit the reproductive careers of and/or kill off its bearer/s.
that's where imo dot you are going over the top somewhat with the spectre of genetic diseases hysteria. They are, in the vast majority of instances, extremely self limiting. They are the by and large the architects of their own demise if you like. They kill themselves off. Ain't nature grand sometimes?
vvv