Majestic Mach

[Triple V]

The lure of a home grown, Oz owned & performed sire prospect & all that such an animal entails insofar as keeping precious Industry Funds at home here instead of them being Western Union wire transferred to the big US & CAN Farms & Stallion Syndicates....doesn't appeal?

[dizzy]

The lure of a home grown, Oz owned & performed sire prospect & all that such an animal entails insofar as keeping precious Industry Funds at home here instead of them being Western Union wire transferred to the big US & CAN Farms & Stallion Syndicates....doesn't appeal?

There are some benefits there VVV but Guaranteed will compete in a market place already saturated with Artsplace blood and his worth to the industry based on his stud appeal pales in comparison to the exponential value that an undefeated champion brings to the industry by way of mainstream media coverage. Black Caviar transcends racing, her worth to the racing industry extends far beyond her prizemoney earnings and the value of her foals at the sales, and it is her undefeated status that fuels that aura.

Courage Under Fire did similar as a two and three year old some years ago, and of course being entire and locally owned brought the benefits you speak of to the industry as well.

Hitting the jackpot would of course be an undefeated locally owned stallion prospect that draws in the media and the public and that has little or no Artsplace blood up close thus being suitable for a mare population becoming increasingly loaded with it.

[Triple V]

As far as the blood of Artsplace is concerned...we're hardly at that point Dot. Not by a long shot.
For example, Broodmares with Artsplace on the top line of their pedigrees would be lucky to account for 10% of all mares respresented by yearlings in the upcoming APG Sales and that includes a number of mares by Artsplace himself.
Even if we actually were close to or even if we had already arrived at such a point...could that be reasonably termed a bad thing?...as in having an overt influence of one of the greatest sires to have ever lived close up in the Australian Broodmare Band?
I just can't see it myself. Currently there's actually significantly more of a Cam Fella influence in the Australian broodmare band than there is to be found an overt influence of Artsplace and even then nobody could ever reasonably term it as saturated. The influence of Cam Fella in Australia has been monumental & long may it continue.
I'd have thought the NZ experience was a good lesson to be learned in this regard re: their total embracing of Direct Scooter line sires such as In The Pocket, Christian Cullen, Courage Under Fire, Mach Three and so on.
Before that they widely embraced the Albatross line through the likes of Vance Hanover, Soky's Atom, Holmes Hanover & so on. The NZ Industry didn't gnash its teeth and begin to flagellate and look for problems that were not there. Rather they simply went after as much of the influence of a good thing as they could possibly get into their breed and accordingly they have reaped the rewards.
Ala the NZ experience with the above two sirelines, Direct Scooter and Albatross...that which you're pointing out here as being something that is somehow bad or something to be avoided as far as Artplace blood is concerned will in fact exactly that which stands the Australian bred product in great stead in years to come.

[dizzy]

As usual VVV you seem to be missing the point and reading something into what I've written that is not there. This years sales catalogue may be as you say but I'd expect that to change rapidly in the next few years when the daughters of Art Major and GFETE come into full production. Art Majors oldest are 6yo, GFETE first local crop are also six and both total over 1000 live foals each now. Add to that 3 sons of Art Major and 2 now of GFETE at stud plus additional Artsplace sons Modern Art, Sportswriter, Stonebridge Regal and Flightpath plus grandsons through their dam Rock n Roll Heaven and Artistic Fella, and a host of others with Artsplace blood as these are just of the top of my head.

No where did I say that the influence of Artsplace was a bad thing in the population just that another Artsplace colt such as Guaranteed would have plenty of competition at stud, and unless your into inbreeding a smaller pool of mares to consort with as the population of mares with Artsplace close up increases.

The Kiwis did embrace their Albatross sons and then largely outcrossed their daughters to the the Direct Scooters line sons which, with the exception of CUF and now Changeover, mostly did not contain Albatross blood and to Falcon Seelster (no Albatross or Meadow Skipper blood even) with great success. The task for us in the future will be to find the stallions that nick with the increasing Artsplace blood. Interesting but not surprising how both the Albatross and Direct Scooter sire lines wern't well regarded in the US yet were such a success in NZ.

However my major point was not the breeding of Guaranteed but that if Majestic Mach can continue to go on undefeated then the potential for him to bring in new interest and money into the industry by way of mainstream prime time media coverage far out weighs the benefits of a redistribution of existing industry interest and funds by way of Guaranteed's stud career.

[Triple V]

Of course Dot, how very foolish of me.
When you write but Guaranteed will compete in a market place already saturated with Artsplace blood.... and..... Hitting the jackpot would of course be an undefeated locally owned stallion prospect that draws in the media and the public and that has little or no Artsplace blood up close thus being suitable for a mare population becoming increasingly loaded with it...who else but me would ever take such comments as you having suggested that the above was a bad thing.

You know, something just occurred to me re: this debate about the influence of Artsplace sons here in AUS.
It is just the 'there's too much Meadow Skipper blood in the breed' routine...but with the names changed. It was proven a furphy theory back then and it will be so once again
The day that the Australian and NZ broodmare bands get saturated with the influence of any one sireline to the detriment thereof...is the day I'll eat my old lawn mowing shoes.

[dizzy]

Yes VVV how foolish of you, and yes who else but you?

I have not said ANYWHERE that an increase in Artsplace blood in the mare population is a bad thing. What I have said is that a large number of existing Artsplace sire line stallions, (sons and grandsons) plus grandsons through stallions with Artsplace dams IS "bad" for Guaranteed individual prospects at stud. This is because of the competition in the marketplace they would provide to Guaranteed. Competition is what sets service fees and determines the numbers of mares served thus having an impact on the dollars Guaranteed could provide to his Australian owners. Do you think the market will fall over themselves to use Guaranteed just because he is Australian foaled and owned?

If Guaranteed was to race on for several more years to become a genuine grand circuit campaigner and then go to stud do you not think that by then many of our leading broodmares will by the stallions with Artsplace blood that have been standing at stud for some years already and increasingly so by the stallions that are at stud now. As a son of Artsplace then Guaranteed to an Artsplace mare would be 2x2, to a mare by a son of Artsplace then 2x3, and to a mare by a grandson of Artsplace 2x 4 to Artsplace. You may be happy with that VVV but I could "guarantee" there would be plenty of breeders who would not be. Having increasing numbers of these mares in the population is NOT bad for the population but it IS "bad" for Guaranteed's prospects at stud simply because he is likely to be denied many of the best broodmares by virtue of his sire being Artsplace. Art Major is a great sire but how much higher would his rankings be if he could cover mares the calibre of the Artsplace mares Rocknroll Hanover and SBSW do?

Let me put it this way. I would love to own (wouldn't we all) an undefeated champion stallion prospect because I would be considerably wealthier then I am now, so would the industry from the influx of interest and money that main stream media coverage of such an animal would bring to the industry. If that stallion was not by Artsplace or one of Artsplace's sons or grandsons but was compatable with their get to produce the next generation of champions then I would be wealthier still.


Meadow Skipper was foaled in 1960 before semen transport and unlimited books and into a much larger and diverse standardbred population then there is today. Foal numbers are down 35% in North America in about the last 7 years, add an expected drop of another 10% this season for the Ontario slots debacle and thats nearly only half the population there was with far fewer stallions of diversified lines at stud. Australia's and NZ populations are dropping too its not on the door step just yet but the potential to breed ourselves into a corner with current practices and NUMBERS is certainly there. My advice to you VVV is buy a new pair of lawn mowing shoes now, then they wont be too grose when you need to eat them.

[Mitch]

Like Obama v Romney and Tony v Julia - Dot & Jaimie are at it again. Always entertaining!

[broncobrad]

Like Obama v Romney and Tony v Julia - Dot & Jaimie are at it again. Always entertaining!

Its like watching the IBF heavyweights going at it for the world title Mitch! Not that either of them will notice my comment but I have learnt an awful lot from them when they are locked in the clinch, butting heads and trading blows, mostly haymakers but that is all part of the theatre.

Gotta say Dot has come back strong from her spell, but Triple is still suffering from his self imposed exile. He has been noticeably slow out of the blocks, completely cordial and not in the least bit provocative. Not sure if I prefer the newer model or would rather the old bull with the short wick back in the ring. But its good to see them both back, circling and sizing each other up. For the life of me though how this thread turned from admiration of the new kid on the block to the new battleground is beyond me. Oops. Forgot to duck!

[Triple V]

Hey Dot, based on that which you see as an overt presence of Artsplace line mares in the AUS Broodmare population and as a result that you are duly prepared to write off the chances of Guarenteed at stud...I'm interested to know what you think of the prospects of Carribean Blaster, Grand Stride and Excel Stride.

[dizzy]

Cant imagine why you'd think I wouldn't notice your comment Brad, I do actually read whats written

VVV I don't believe I have written off Guaranteeds chances at stud just put them in perspective. I don't find Grand Stride particularly appealing personally and would say he needs to do way more yet before he would be considered a stud prospect. Not completely sold yet on either Carribean Blaster or Excel Stride and may never be. Carribean Blaster is by a more commercial sire then ES though BD's daughters have made more impact then his sons, has a couple of big features on his resume and is already part owned by Alabar so will have their marketing and client base to help and has a pedigree that suits an increasing representation of Artsplace in the mare population.

Excel Stride doesnt have quite the resume of CB nor the commercial advantages and a pedigree that is probably better suited to the NZ mare population. I'd imagine there are still many opportunities for both to further enhance or negate their appeal at stud on the track still.