Originally Posted by
dizzy
yes vvv how foolish of you, and yes who else but you?
[vvv] you'd be surprised. It's just that others aren't anywhere near as given to debating with you as i am.
i have not said anywhere that an increase in artsplace blood in the mare population is a bad thing.
[vvv] no, however you've clearly inferred it a number of times without explanation.
what i have said is that a large number of existing artsplace sire line stallions, (sons and grandsons) plus grandsons through stallions with artsplace dams is "bad" for guaranteed individual prospects at stud. This is because of the competition in the marketplace they would provide to guaranteed. Competition is what sets service fees and determines the numbers of mares served thus having an impact on the dollars guaranteed could provide to his australian owners.
[vvv] no, you didn't say that at all dot. You were thinking it perhaps, but posting it as such no...but finally, there's your explanation. Forgive me, for my mind reading powers are not what they once were.
i would have thought if any colt proves himself good enough to be given a chance at stud then the additional facts that he is a son of an absolutely outstanding racemare and one of the all-time great pacing sires & that he is respresentative of an already widely accepted & highly successful sireline in aus would be a huge plus? Apparently though you see it as a cross he must bear?
do you think the market will fall over themselves to use guaranteed just because he is australian foaled and owned?
[vvv] a classic closed question come straw man argument of which you are so very fond dot, and the answer to which is clearly of course not...but if he and others like him were to prove themselves whilst under our conditions on our tracks then you'd at least expect them to be given a chance.
if guaranteed was to race on for several more years to become a genuine grand circuit campaigner and then go to stud do you not think that by then many of our leading broodmares will by the stallions with artsplace blood that have been standing at stud for some years already and increasingly so by the stallions that are at stud now.
[vvv] no, not by a long shot, not by a very long shot. There will be a host of mares by bettor's delight, christian cullen, courage under fire, mach three and so on at stud at the same time. The field to be ploughed by sons and grandsons of artsplace is wide open and all but never ending in that regard. As i said before, the day that we as an industry here in the sthn hemisphere breed ourselves into a corneris the day i will eat my old lawn mowing shoes. This is largely of the same routine that kentuckiana's Ken jackson & his genetics guru hired gun tried on the us breeders when christian cullen went to the us to stand stud. The us pacing fraternity still hasn't bred itself into a genetic corner despite that and other periodic irresponsible chicken little style calls of same from the various alarmists & the southern hemisphere broodmare band is many times more genetically diverse than that of the us & can.
as a son of artsplace then guaranteed to an artsplace mare would be 2x2, to a mare by a son of artsplace then 2x3, and to a mare by a grandson of artsplace 2x 4 to artsplace. You may be happy with that vvv but i could "guarantee" there would be plenty of breeders who would not be.
[vvv] ahuh. The basis for not doing so being that it would not be successful because........???????....because dot said so?
what evidence have you got to suggest it would not work dot? Can you furnish any statistics on this? Or is it just self serving assumption you have made in order to bolster your position?
having increasing numbers of these mares in the population is not bad for the population but it is "bad" for guaranteed's prospects at stud simply because he is likely to be denied many of the best broodmares by virtue of his sire being artsplace.
[vvv] as i said above...there will be a host of mares by bettor's delight, christian cullen, courage under fire, mach three and so on at stud at the same time. The field to be ploughed by sons and grandsons of artsplace is wide open and all but never ending in that regard.
art major is a great sire but how much higher would his rankings be if he could cover mares the calibre of the artsplace mares rocknroll hanover and sbsw do?
[vvv] that applies to all successful sires so it's a moot point.
let me put it this way. I would love to own (wouldn't we all) an undefeated champion stallion prospect because i would be considerably wealthier then i am now, so would the industry from the influx of interest and money that main stream media coverage of such an animal would bring to the industry. If that stallion was not by artsplace or one of artsplace's sons or grandsons but was compatable with their get to produce the next generation of champions then i would be wealthier still.
[vvv] i'll take the horse first & worry about the rest later.
meadow skipper was foaled in 1960 before semen transport and unlimited books and into a much larger and diverse standardbred population then there is today.
[vvv] thanks for the history lesson but it shows you don't read what i write. I wrote meadow skipper blood. Go check. Semen transport most definitely did see his influence spread far, wide and fast via his sons and grandsons and that prompted the same 'there's too much of so and so's blood' in the breed routine that you're suggesting with artsplace here in aus. As i said before, it was wrong then and it will be proven wrong again.
foal numbers are down 35% in north america in about the last 7 years, add an expected drop of another 10% this season for the ontario slots debacle and thats nearly only half the population there was with far fewer stallions of diversified lines at stud.
[vvv] far fewer lines? Not so... But believe what you like. Nothing i can say will change your mind.
Australia's and nz populations are dropping too its not on the door step just yet but the potential to breed ourselves into a corner with current practices and numbers is certainly there.
[vvv] direct from ken jackson's school of genetic alarmists. Will not happen.
My advice to you vvv is buy a new pair of lawn mowing shoes now, then they wont be too grose when you need to eat them.
[vvv] i'll send them to you. I suggest a little salt & pepper and some tomato sauce.