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Thread: Holy Shit

  1. #31
    Senior Member 4YO dizzy will become famous soon enough
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    So Jamie your saying so long as I tube my horse with only water within 48 hours of a race that is Ok and I shouldn't be charged if caught because water is "pedestrian"?

    Your actually missing the point entirely here with Mr Pena, the charges are for administering "substances" within a prohibited time frame for those "substances" as published in the rules, the breach being demonstrated by veterinary records. No doubt when the charges are heard the exact nature of the "substances" involved will have bearing on the penalties imposed.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzy View Post
    So Jamie your saying so long as I tube my horse with only water within 48 hours of a race that is Ok and I shouldn't be charged if caught because water is "pedestrian"?

    Your actually missing the point entirely here with Mr Pena, the charges are for administering "substances" within a prohibited time frame for those "substances" as published in the rules, the breach being demonstrated by veterinary records. No doubt when the charges are heard the exact nature of the "substances" involved will have bearing on the penalties imposed.
    [VVV] G'day Dot,
    You are again putting words into my mouth, reading into that which I have posted on here that which is not there & then replying accordingly.
    Clearly I'm not saying anything of the sort. Rather, I am merely pointing out that some of the listed substances apparently employed by old mate Lou's now likely former Vet are as common as dirt insofar as them being equine applicable meds.....whilst at the same time there seems to be others listed there that are, from what I can gather, far from being applicable for use in any horse, at any time, ever...therapeutic or otherwise. No more than that, no less than that, all silent, all done.
    Incidentally, time frame wise, as I said a couple of times previously, I have absolutely no idea at all if the NY/NJ rules have an administration time frame violation being the = of a Positive Test? Perhaps they do? It's the first I've heard of such an arrangement anywhere.
    This is also DEFINITELY the first time I've heard of any Trainer being called to account for their Vet's records as opposed to Positive Tests. Maybe it has happened before?
    Maybe something like that also played a part in scuttling the Seldon & Eric Ledford EPO & Shockwave Emporium a few years back & prior to that sending old mate Richard 'The Dart Man' Chansky on the Lam? Don't know.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year Toohard will become famous soon enough Toohard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple V View Post
    [VVV] ... .for example...a Human Dementia drug being used...which was in fact the case a year to two back with another fella who's name escapes me.
    No pun intended??

  4. #34
    Senior Member Colt Lethal is on a distinguished road
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    In May 2003 gallops trainer John Mcnair was outed for four months for having a drench tube and associated items in his truck, on the way to Sydney for the races.

  5. #35
    Senior Member 2YO Starship Captain will become famous soon enough Starship Captain's Avatar
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    Paul,
    He is just testing us to see how much attention we are paying when reading his posts

  6. #36
    aussiebreno
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal View Post
    In May 2003 gallops trainer John Mcnair was outed for four months for having a drench tube and associated items in his truck, on the way to Sydney for the races.
    Memory is a bit stiff, but I think Bernie Kelly got his time for having drench tubes etc in his float when stewards pulled him over with Greg Kelly about 4 years ago.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Question It is incomprehensible that...

    ...over 700 instances of timeframe overages have resulted in ZERO positives???????????????
    Not only ZERO positives but ZERO positives for a whole host of noted substances that should have been readily/easily dectected??????
    To me that dicates that either the published timeframes for the various substances must be way, way wrong or otherwise their current testing regime must be absolute CRAP...or both?
    Also makes me wonder how many other Stables up there would have Vet Records that could stand up to the same level of scrutiny as that which has been applied in this case. I suspect, not very many.
    Is that the faint whiff of burning Vet Records that I smell in the air? Perish the thought.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Colt Lethal is on a distinguished road
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    What the hell has anything in that statement to do with the regulations?
    If it is an infringement of the the rules then it is 'mea culpa'

  9. #39
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Well, doesn't it all peak your curiosity a little bit, Lee?
    Presumably to almost certainly a pretty fair number of the horses involved in those 700+ instances of timeframe overages were also tested/swabbed pre and/or post race and those swabs have to date obviously all come up clear...so to me at least that indicates that either the adminstration timeframes are wrong and/or the pre/post race testing is absolute crap.

    Rules or no rules & old mate Lou's guilt or innocence aside, surely it comes down to one or the other or as I said before, perhaps even to both?

    On a general note, given the demonstrated apparent ineffective state of the Testing up there, I bet my left & right cajones that old mate is not the only one who's employing a whole range range of substances inside of the official timeframes...and not subsequently coming up with Positives.
    If the NY & the NJ authorities were to apply the same level of scrutiny to a whole host of other Trainers I guarentee you they would find EXACTLY the same timeframe violations in play.
    Evens into odds on and shortening that the Vets up there have dialled right into the testing parameters and have been/are operating accordingly.
    They're not like our guys & girls who cheerfully roll up up the driverway in their Nissan Navara armed with their trusty dart full of Banamine and jam it into your colic stricken horse.
    Some of them are more like the animated Mad Professor in the open credits to Robot Chicken.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Colt Lethal is on a distinguished road
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    Jamie,
    Yes it does, but I guess it shows what has been known for ages, that with the right backing (money/knowledge) then the rules, as (were/are) applicable at that (whenever) time can be easily manipulated. However, drenching and injecting rules have had non compliance and the result, just like presenting a horse to race with a DETECTABLE drug must, under these regulations have the trainer found guilty.
    To represent Australian vets as only mirror images of James & Siegfried (ACG&S) would suggest that they really don't have a clue, when a bit of research might show most racing oriented ones just don't leave a paper trail.

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