Holy Shit

[Triple V]

jamie,
yes it does, but i guess it shows what has been known for ages, that with the right backing (money/knowledge) then the rules, as (were/are) applicable at that (whenever) time can be easily manipulated.
[vvv] as i said, either the time frames or the testing regime or both are crap.

however, drenching and injecting rules have had non compliance and the result, just like presenting a horse to race with a detectable drug must, under these regulations have the trainer found guilty.
[vvv] true, however the point i am trying to make is that line of thinking would see the top 10-15-20 trainers in the us & can standing in line for the very same thing old mate lou charged with. there will of course be vet to vet variations in timeframes & substances used but they will all be doing the same sort of thing.
old mate may well have been way more blatant than most, in fact when you look at it he was nothing short of in your face in many instances, but he was/is by no means robinson crusoe. If he is the only trainer in all of ny state & nj that has timeframe violations in the vet records then i'll drop my pants in the pitt st. Mall at lunchtime of a friday and sing 'hey big spender' by shirley bassey.

to represent australian vets as only mirror images of james & siegfried (acg&s) would suggest that they really don't have a clue, when a bit of research might show most racing oriented ones just don't leave a paper trail.
[vvv] we're honestly not dealing with anything even approaching the same species of vet though lee.
by and large i've found that both australian and new zealand vets are infinitely more ethical, infinitely more heavily scrutinised by the respective national bodies/peers and so infinitely less willing to take a walk on the wild side than are their state side & canadian bretheren.
i could count the questionable/dodgy vets that i have met or that i know of or have heard about...on the fingers of 1 hand and have a finger or two left over.

vvv

[Danno]

G'day Jamie,
regardless of the ethics and skills of various vets, regardless of whether another 10/20/500 trainers are doing the same thing!?!
An allegation has been made regarding 1700+ alleged infingements and if your kids were on the same bus as an "alleged child molester" with 1700+ allegations do you reckon most people would not be a tad concerned ???, now lets not go all .....but thats not a fair analogy then you tell me what is...1700 cases...is that not enough for the relevant authorites to take some action??
Mate if you were one of the hundreds of honest trainers that was being asked to compete with this sort of GROSS, allegation/behaviour then I'm certain you would not be questioning the validity of the charges, moreso questioning why something was not done earlier.

[Duane Ranger]

Top trainers speak out on Lou Pena suspension.

In fact more trainer comments follow in the next few days. More of them are starting come out of their shells and starting to open up and talk about what's happened.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=97916

[p plater]

Obviously they can't screen for all possible substances in all swabs. If I recall correctly Pena claimed a low price pacer and within days/weeks that horse smashed the world record.
Surely the USA freeze blood for future testing as in Aust. Why couldn't say the blood from that race be tested for a 100% breakdown of all components which make up the blood, or have I been watching to much CSI.
It might cost more once but it could open up some strange things.

[Tangles]

Top trainers speak out on Lou Pena suspension.

In fact more trainer comments follow in the next few days. More of them are starting come out of their shells and starting to open up and talk about what's happened.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=97916

The biggest joke is played out on us poor ignorant breeders that send our mares to high priced imported American stallions that some of these guys have had through their stables.
Think about it ??

[Triple V]

The biggest joke is played out on us poor ignorant breeders that send our mares to high priced imported American stallions that some of these guys have had through their stables.
Think about it ??

[VVV] That's not exactly the case Tangles as in...if Oz & NZ Breeders felt strongly enough about it then there's no great effort required on their part to find out who trained a sire/s come potential sire/s that they were interested in & research the Trainer/s records.
The information is easily accessible via the USTA's website. There's no need for anybody to fly blind if they don't wish to do so.

Enhanced performances no doubt play a part in the initial stud opportunities afforded such horses but in the end they'll either have the genetics required to become a successful sire or they will not. There are, IMO, a whole host of aspects that come into play that are way more important indicators of potential than the record of the barn that they raced out of.

As I mentioned earlier in either this or maybe another thread?, I can't remember....

In the 2011 Northern Hemisphere Season, 6 of the top 10 US 2yo Pacing Sires, 7 of the top 10 US 3yo Pacing Sires and 7 of the top 10 All Age Pacing Sires came from barns that have posted multiple violations.

Closer to home, on the AUS Sires List for the 2010/2011 Season those numbers were much the same with...
5 of the top 10 2yo Pacing Sires
6 of the top 10 3yo Pacing Sires and
5 of the top 10 All Age Pacing Sires.... coming from barns with multiple violations in the Northern Hemisphere.

Regards

Jaimie

[dizzy]

Its a bit of a controversial topic but it does need to be remembered that these are performance enhancing not performance creating drugs. I'm sure Jamie wouldn't disagree if I said no performance enhancing drug would turn him into Ben Johnson or me into Marion Jones. But their use should still be condemed even if they don't have that significant an influence on the gene pool and if breeders voted with their feet that would be a good thing. But apart from the Cambest controversy I don't think it is going to happen

[dizzy]

Jamie having just read the NYSRWB State Harness Racing Commision Harness Rules part 4120 they do publish a list of drugs and prohibition periods. It's not related to recommended withholding periods or positive swabs but multiples of 24 hrs by which you can not administer certain drugs by any means. Mr Pena's veterinary records indicated that he/his vet breached these published time frames in administering the substances listed in his charges prior to his horses racing engagements. And yes there probably are other trainers who should be concerned.