BETFAIR coverage starts tomorrow

[Shakamaker]

this just plain wrong, the turnover model means betfair pay a higher percentage of revenue then the tab

read any article about this, no one on either side disputes this

Rubbish. Betfair are refusing to pay under both a turnover model and they won't even pay anything under a Gross Profit Model.

If I am a punter and I want to have $100 to win on a particular horse, I have options where I place that bet.

Most TAB's in Australia and NZ are paying product fees back to the Racing Industry at around 30% of Gross Profit. So if I place $100 on a horse with the TAB, $84 on average is returned back to players and $16 is retained. Of this $16, on average around 30% of it ie $4.80 is paid to the Racing Industry in the form of a product fee. The TAB's also provide the Racing Industry with other sources of funding including Programming Fees or profits from Gaming operations etc that on average takes the return to the Racing Industry somewhere up to around 6% of turnover.

Betfair are refusing to pay 1% of turnover in NSW. So if I placed my $100 on Betfair, they are refusing to pay $1 of that back to the Industry.

The most that Betfair have offered to pay the Racing Industry in Australia, (outside of Tasmania) is 10% of gross profits. This is considerably less than what the TAB's are paying.

[buster]

how can we have a discussion if you are making up facts

betfair currently pay 1.5% of turnover to aussie racing, this money is held in trust until the court decisions are ended -FACT
the tab pay around 6% of turnover to aussie racing, this is then reduced by the kickbacks to large punters and coporate bookmakers betting through the tab and then further reduced by a return of around 20 million a year to the tab by the racing industry -FACT this is all evidence in court cases
1.5% of turnover for betfair is 60% of gross revenue -FACT

justice perram in the federal court judgement

I think it is likely – much more likely in fact – that the TAB and RNSW have an in principle understanding or arrangement that the TAB will have the race fields fee refunded to it.

the 1.5% fee on turnover equates to 60% of Betfair’s gross revenue but only 10% of the TAB’s revenue.

[admin]

I agree, of course, that Betfair should make a fair contribution to New Zealand racing. But I'm a little surprised that not many people here are excited to have a new way to bet on racing. A few weeks ago I went to make a $100 bet on a race where a horse was paying $20, only to have that horse drop to $1.80. My mate in Australia was supposed to make the bet for me at the track and didn't end up going, but the horse ended up winning. My point is that had I been able to back the horse early in betfair my return would have been far greater than x times $1.80, instead of going through the Aussie TAB.

Further, with Betfair you can back a horse (or sporting match) at one price then if the price goes down you can lay the bet (bet the opposite outcome) and pocket the difference no matter what the outcome (and vice versa). So if you know what way the market is going to move you can guarantee yourself a profit (obviously this doesn't always work out). Seems to me that the tab system is broken and if Betfair can fix it they should be welcomed provided they give their fair share back.

I should note that there could be a scale problem with Betfair in NZ. It rely's on the interaction of a buyer and a seller to be successful, and I'm not sure if the NZ market is big enough for reasonable prices to be offered. Big sporting events are always well bet, and result in fair and accurate prices being offered, but I'm skeptical that they will be able to get much action on small races throughout the country.

[buster]

good point admin, betfair has a serious advantage for the smaller punter over the tab prices which change after the jump

[Shakamaker]

I agree, of course, that Betfair should make a fair contribution to New Zealand racing. But I'm a little surprised that not many people here are excited to have a new way to bet on racing.

Why would owners, trainers, drivers and breeders be excited when an alternative wagering option comes into the market that refuses to make any payment to the Racing Industry?

Perhaps if Betfair came in and were offering a fair and reasonable produce fee to the Racing Industry, they might get more support from Racing Industry participants.

[buster]

betfair looks after the punter, that is their business.

[admin]

Why would owners, trainers, drivers and breeders be excited when an alternative wagering option comes into the market that refuses to make any payment to the Racing Industry?

Perhaps if Betfair came in and were offering a fair and reasonable produce fee to the Racing Industry, they might get more support from Racing Industry participants.

Fair point, and to be honest I'm not very informed about how much Betfair contributes to the industry overseas or in NZ. I have read a lot of misinformation throughout the years on that and Betfair does get blamed a lot (I'm not saying unfairly as to be honest I don't know). I was just surprised that nobody brought up the betting aspect which is definitely a positive for the punter.

As I said earlier I agree that Betfair, as a prerequisite to being allowed to operate in this market, should give it's fair share back.

I do think (as many of you do) that racing is in trouble and one culprit is the TAB's monopoly - see this post: http://pullthepocket.blogspot.com/20...ice-cream.html

Plus here are Betfair's figures on their contribution to Aussie Racing http://www.factsaboutfunding.com.au/. I don't know how this compares to traditional bookmakers or the NZ market, but they definitely do not get a free ride.

[The Charioteer]

how many of you guys actually use Betfair? and/or understand trading and arbing?

Betfair does not take money from the TAB, in fact it increases turnover on the tote from arbers laying on Betfair and betting back elsewhere.
Especially now that Betfair have the "winners tax" or the Premium Charge as they call it. To avoid it you have to bet back somewhere else.
Betfair attracts a different type of punter who is stay at home and computer/software savvy. These guys may have no interest in trotting
whatsoever, to them it's just another market and the better the liquidity gets the more these guys will get involved. Which is mana from
heaven for those who can do form and price a race efficiently.

So far the liquidity isn't too flash but it's early days. If you can actually pick the winners you will get better than tote odds nearly every race.

[Shakamaker]

Betfair does not take money from the TAB, in fact it increases turnover on the tote from arbers laying on Betfair and betting back elsewhere.

What a load of unsubtantiated rubbish!

If I am a punter without a conscience and only interested in the best possible return for myself and I want to have my $100 to win on Auckland Reactor this Saturday and I look on the NZ TAB and he is paying $2.60 and then I look on Betfair and I can snap up $3.20, where will I place my $100. On Betfair of course.

So don't try this argument that Betfair does not take money away from the Tote and it is all new money garbage etc etc.

And yes I have a Betfair account and yes I understand trading and arbing and have done it all before. Is it good for Racing by not not paying anything back to the Industry. No

[buster]

i heard from HRNZ that betfair was the cause of the new zealand earthquakes