I don't have a problem with jumps racing done properly but in this country it's not or rarely done properly. Those other sports you mention Lee have evolved rapidly in recent years to protect themselves from accusations of horse abuse from animal welfare quarters. Dressage banned a controversial training method known as "Rolkur" even though the dutch used it with particular success to win many a gold medal. In dressage ANY trace of blood on a horse from a spur rub or in the mouth results in elemination from the competition. And don't think the judges won't do it, a Dutch rider who was favoured for the individual silver medal, and the dutch team the gold, was eliminated at the last world championship during her test because her horse displayed a trace of blood in its mouth. It was determined after the test by the vets that he had bitten his own tongue.
Whip rules in showjumping have changed, previously a horse was able to refuse 3 times in a competition before it was eliminated, and the rider could punish it on each occasion freely with the whip. Now a horse may only refuse twice before elimination, and a rider may only strike the horse 3 times with the whip on the first occasion and not at all on the second. Actually most riders will only strike a horse now twice if it refuses.
They are still in the rule book but virtually no one programs any of the old events in showjumping where the size of the fences kept increasing until the horses failed to be able to jump them. No one wanted to see horses tested to the max any more, and showjumping evolved into a competition where it was more about a horses education then his absolute ability to jump a big fence. I maybe on my own here but I would like to see harness racing evolve likewise to the point where people can be satisfied to see a horse win without being concerned about how fast it ran. That it is the calibre of the opposition that you defeated, not how fast you ran that determines the merit of the performance.Who here would say that Black Caviar is not a champion yet she has not once run a track record in her career. And I have no doubt that if a race track manager produced a surface on which she could have smashed the track record Peter Moody would have refused to start her.
Eventing removed the roads and tracks and steeplechase from the cross country in all but a few four star events throughout the world to protect the horse from the fatigue related falls that were occurring. Only the very best competitors in the world are accepted into a four star event these days with extremely strick qualifying conditions. And all events now are one fall at a fence or on the flat in the cross country and you are eliminated.
Pretending that people don't care about horse welfare or the use of performance enhancing drugs in harness racing is folly
Dot,
On the ball again.Our grandaughter competes at Interclub level on (most people don't believe it) a Standardbred, who was twice a regional 'Horse of the Year' and can't he jump, which upsets most of her 'Hacky' world participants.
If we don't clean up our act re; drug use/whip use ie: ZERO tolerance,all horse sports will be non existant in the world of the future, and we (the people) will not be better off for it.
]http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/harness-industry-cleanout-not-before-time-says-frustrated-owner-20111127-1o1ji.htm
I'll put it here again, anyone can read it, it's not top secret materiel. 'IF YOU CAN'T BEAT E'M, JOIN E'M'.
That's probably not in Wiktionaray.
Last edited by Lethal; 08-06-2012 at 04:05 PM.
No one is interested in DRUG CHEATS ...........Hits.11377 That's 266 in 2 hours ????????????????
vvvOriginally Posted by dizzy
vvv you want the list why don't you write it, i can recommend a number of books from professor tobin and others iif you like. How about managing your horse so that it doesn't become dehydrated in the first place vvv, you know proactive not reactive.
[vvv] dot, you've got a better duck and weave than the great jimmy caruthers.
your footwork is not of the same calibre however.
the fact that you can't even come up with a single nomination for such a list but are nonetheless eager to rail against same, for me speaks volumes.
it is pretty obvious which of the current therapeutic drugs would be the main contenders to make it & even if you don't want any such list to become a reality you could at the very least name a few of them and go on to make a case againt them...but no, not even that.
since when has calling a vet to a sick foal become an absurd arguement?
[vvv] a blantant & noted thoroughly scurrilous misrepresentation of what i have said. It is either that or you need to attend reading & comprehension 101.
i regularly travel from bankstown to the clinic at agnes banks in 55 minutes, i'm sure from both agnes banks and clarendon to where you keep your mares could be accomplished in significantly less. Calling a vet would give a sickly foal the best opportunity to live would it not vvv?
[vvv] see above.
i don't foal down any mares myself vvv at bankstown or elsewhere, mine are supervised by someone else.
[vvv] the old absentee routine eh? I think jack nicholson said it best in 'a few good men'. Either pick up a rifle and stand at post... Or just say thankyou and be on your way.
who i'm sure wouldn't hesitate to call a vet if the foal showed any signs of needing one.
[vvv] there go my plans to employ herbal teas, healing crystals and tibetan chanting during the coming season's foalings. Thanks for setting me straight on that score dot. Most appreciated.
Hi Lee, some of the things that guys like Jamie VVV and Bill Williams VOR have highlighted recently are starting to put some things in perspective. It would seem that these guys have inside knowledge and maybe associations with the powers that be. They claim that the PUNTER is the customer and therefore the most important stakeholder in Harness Racing. Therefore, the PUNTER's perception that we have consistency and fairplay is more important than any reality of same. VOR agrees with VVV that team driving is more damaging to the sport over the use of performance enhancing drugs because it's something that the PUNTER can sometimes see. He's probably right, I don't know. I get it and maybe the PARTICPANTS like you and I need to get with the program, shut up and be happy with the administration of the rules.
Mango commented that rules are rules. No issue there however the rules aren't consistently administered and that's the problem that PARTICPANTS have. Think back, how some trainers all of a sudden had such miraculous results in such a short space of time and then fall of the map again? Are they being tipped off for the "good of the game" and so that the "PUNTER" has confidence in the so called product? Were some of these trainers in the past "TOO BIG TO FAIL?" So Mango, maybe the rules aren't the rules for ALL. . It seems that we have rules to be enforced when it's in line with the over arching strategy of creating the perception of a level playing field and consistent racing product. Can you think of a recent example of trainers or drivers that are TOO BIG TO FAIL?
VOR also commented that EPO is being looked for and there are cheats being punished and so he feels that it should give the PUNTER confidence that it's being looked for. Using his words, "no indication there is widespread misuse in either code". Jamie has enlightened us with some highly imaginative reasons for massive turn around in performances.
Jamie VVV in the past has made claim that a Sydney based trainer enjoying unbelievable success would never return a positive success and would have bet just about anything on it. How can anyone ever do that with so much confidence without having knowledge or a relationship that the general public aren't privy too? It turns out that Jamie was right and that trainer hasn't returned a +ve.
Finally, I'll put this out there that VVV and VOR have never trained a winner or been themselves involved in any elite athletic success. And so although they bring a great insight into the mentality and strategy of the Ivory tower, I don't think that they're experts on everything that they comment on. The performance improvement that we've witnessed is evidence of the use of performance enhancing drugs and we don't need a positive drug test to further validate it. However, that's a side issue as the PUNTER wouldn't know the difference.
He's buying off our website again
I briefly deleted that but in hindsight I'll leave that there Lee. It just underlines that you struggle to add anything useful to the discussion.
Jett, putting those things being discussed here into some perspective and personally agreeing with the state of play are two totally different things. It is 100% inescapable certainty that first and foremost in the minds of all Racing Admistrators, of all Racing Regulatory & of all the respective State Governments that they are responsible to is the safeguarding of the revenue streams that flow from Wagering Taxation.
They don't come out and say as much, they spare us that particular affront, but by their words and actions... ye shall know them.
People think I am joking when I have in the past suggested that the outcome of some Protests rests more on the Tote price of those involved than they do on the actions that are being objected to.
As a participant I would of course much rather that their focus was a lot different but I have seen enough of the way things operate from an Industry internal & from a wider Government perspective to recognise that is a tilt at a windmill worthy of 1000 synchronised Don Quixotes. Ultimately, the $$$ will speak loudest of all.
If official actions taken in order to preserve that revenue stream happen to dovetail with actions that Participants feel levels the playing field for them then all the better. If they don't then basically, with measure of massaging...it is tough luck for us. It doesn't make it right, it isn't right, clearly. It is however, reality.
On the subject of reality VVV I will now be leaving you to enjoy the obviously alternative reality that you exist in. Its not that I don't want to comment further and please don't think that you have seen me off its merely that I probably wont have access to post for a couple of weeks. I'm happy to leave others in judgement of what you and I have written and make their own determinations as to who needs to attend reading and comprehension classes along with training in empathy for that great animal the horse.
A few good men is one of the few movies I made time to watch. Wasn't it great to see Tom Cruise fight what should have been a losing battle for a couple of the little guys and bring down Jack Nicolsons untouchable character. They took Jack Nicolson out in hand cuffs in the end did they not?
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