Ballarat Cup

[justdoit]

Hi Buster,
I'm with you on this one, the so called great men of the past haha lets show footage of the old races to promote harness racing. It would be the end of the industry as we know it.
Flashing Red if your repeat your reply to Triplev123 harness racing is finished. Could you really expect anyone to listen to what you wrote:
Flashing Red for example was a great, great, trier, but he just found that extra something when you thought he was down and out with a couple of good ones on his backside. Yeah it's not nice, but when you need purse earnings to put food on the table, if you have to cause them a little pain, so be it. And they get looked after so well each and every day. It isn't much of a trade off do you think?
Yes sir I only hit her once a week, but I let her sleep inside and feed her really well. Not funny and hopefully you are not serious.

[aussiebreno]

Stay losing Justdoit! There is no doubt in my mind horses can (can being key word) find 2 or 3 lengths. Whip must stay. Drivers not only hate long whips because of the action and lack of control but it actually looks worse on TV. The close ups at Menangle when they turn for home (as an example) where the whips arent even cracking look bad because the whips are so long and high up in the air.
Lets the drivers have a cracker whip (just dont let the RSPCA know) but only let drivers hit the horses 5 times! The do-gooders will see only 5 hits with the whip and be happy, the whip if used at the right time/s by the driver will be useful and the drivers will be happy with the control of the horse.

[justdoit]

Hi Aussiebreno,
It's not about winning or losing it is about the public's perception of the sport, and so we agree IMO

[aussiebreno]

Public perception of the sport hey. Yep, let those not involved who dont give a dime to the industry control us. LOL

[Flashing Red]

the old horsemen that 'really' know how to drive a horse? the same ones that used the canes? if you need to cross the reins to hit a horse that hard then you can't feel its mouth, because its already OFF THE BIT

i couldnt give a crap about these old horsemen, give me dean braun any day of the week

I don't agree with the whip useage of the past. I have a hard time watching old footage. But, unlike some of the people that are given driving licences today, they could DRIVE.

You have also missed my point re crossing the reins. Re-read my post again, it is not about being able to hit a horse harder. It is about keeping contact with the horses mouth. You are also incorrect in your belief that if they aren't carrying you along they are off the bit, whether lines in one hand or not. Those horses that travel and feel like they are "taking" you with them are very nice to drive. But not all horses are like that. Granted those horses are easier to keep a hold of. But some of them always have a light contact, even if they are full of running. And it does not necessarily have anything to do with ability. I've driven a former FFA horse that a 3yo child could have driven. He was very quiet, only had a light contact. And then, my personal favourite horse ever, felt like you were trying to contain a steam train, whether jogging or at the end of a 2 mile fast work. He just "took" you with him. You gave your lines an inch and he would increase his speed. You could have layed your lines on the dust sheet with the first horse and he still would have mosied along at the same speed. He didn't "take" you with him. Yet he was a far better horse to the claimer. And it had nothing to do with how "tired" he was.

[Flashing Red]

Hi Buster,
I'm with you on this one, the so called great men of the past haha lets show footage of the old races to promote harness racing. It would be the end of the industry as we know it.
Flashing Red if your repeat your reply to Triplev123 harness racing is finished. Could you really expect anyone to listen to what you wrote:
Flashing Red for example was a great, great, trier, but he just found that extra something when you thought he was down and out with a couple of good ones on his backside. Yeah it's not nice, but when you need purse earnings to put food on the table, if you have to cause them a little pain, so be it. And they get looked after so well each and every day. It isn't much of a trade off do you think?
Yes sir I only hit her once a week, but I let her sleep inside and feed her really well. Not funny and hopefully you are not serious.

I did mean what I said, 100%. We need the whip and some horses need to get hit. Period. I couple of wacks on the backside in the trade for the best feed, care and vetinary attention money can buy is a small price to pay. I suppose some of those equestrian people that don't feed and worm their horses, their horses are unshod and uncared for in their bare paddocks - they have a better life do they? I mean if they are "loved", is that all that matters? Why don't you go to a Pony Club muster on Sunday and see kids, on their beloved little ponies, beat the crap out of them to make them go around the barrels faster. Is that OK because they get loves and carrots during the week?

And for the record, your beloved PETA don't even want people to have RIDING horses. That's right. Not only are they anti-racing but they are anti-equestrian too. I cannot stand animal activists. And I am one of the biggest animal lovers around!

I hated when people were allowed to pull their whips right back - it was disgusting. But I see no problem with the elbow-wrist action currently allowed, if it is only in the home straight. And I think whips are being policed a lot tougher than even 5 years ago. And so it should be. I have personally told drivers not to hit horses if they don't need it (or, even worse, they stop if hit!). But I have also personally worked with some that need one or two at the top of the straight. Karloo Mick, as an example, is one of these horses. No-one would argue that Mick isn't loved by Barry - he's his pet!

[Flashing Red]

I would also like to add that I have tried to get the old "numbers on the rump" (a la SA style) as an optional piece of gear but to no avail. I would put them on everything if allowed Like I said, those that know me personally know how much I really don't like whips, but over the years I have realised that they are necessary. Ask me 5 years ago if I thought they should have been banned, I would have said yes. But not now.

[justdoit]

Hi Flashing Red,
Your sentence if you have to cause them a little pain, so be it. And they get looked after so well each and every day. It isn't much of a trade off do you think?
If that was harness racing's line on the use of the whip, IMO it would have a very negative impact on the future popularity of the sport.
The majority of horse people would understand what you wrote as I do, the only problem is that the majority are not horse people and for the sport to grow in the
future the product needs to be as clean and tidy as possible.
I have no problem with the direction racing is heading with the use of the whip and your proposal for the "numbers on the rump" (a la SA style) is great and should be in place
Australia wide lets start making some noise with the help of HarnessLink.

Hi aussiebreno,
It's not about who's in control, it's more to do with getting new participants and getting their dimes.

"If we had a keen vision and feeling of all ordinary human life, it would be like hearing the grass grow and the squirrel's heart beat, and we should die of that roar which lies on the other side of silence. As it is, the best of us walk about well wadded with........."

[mango]

Hi Justdoit
Yes the whip does give a bad perception to some viewers but as a gentleman told me last night it is a tool of the trade. He has broken in over 1000 horses and he said some horses won't go without the whip, he also said when breaking in a yearling he always carries a whip not to hit them but to tap them to help get them to go in the direction that he wants them to go in and without the whip he said you would have a lot of bad mannered, no mouth horses. He agreed that the whip rule change was a good idea but he would like to see drivers been able to cross their reigns only in the home straight as he believes the driver hasn't got as much controll whilst whipping with the reign in his hand and that also looks worse at times when whipping a horse due to the reign flapping around. He said he would love to see the people that want the whip banned all together take a 2yr old out on the track and see how they go.

[BenScadden]

I reckon it's inevitable one day that whips will be totally banned. Maybe it won't happen for another 50 years ... but I think it will happen eventually. When it does, those horses that don't respond without the use of a whip will struggle. I guess it's a sort of forced evolution of the racing game. It may seem a crazy concept now but the industry will adapt, just as it has with other changes.