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Thread: Trial 1 @ Menangle yesterday

  1. #11
    Senior Member 2YO HISGEN65 will become famous soon enough HISGEN65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffkel View Post
    Why send it to the RSPCA, that is just trouble making. Alert the stewards is plenty. They will deal with it.

    Did you alert the RSPCA that 3 horses were put down at the olympics cross country, or showpumping, more than likely not!!!!
    Geoff i was thanking the others for bringing this to my attention more than thanking them for alerting the RSPCA ...I accept,however upsetting,that horses die in racing & equestrian pursuits but whipping the crap out of a horse in the public eye is what I was on about..no friggin need for it

  2. #12
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    I too would like to thank VVV for bringing this to all of our attention. He could easily have observed it and decided to ignore it, but he has highlighted it for all to see.

    In a race, an improper use of the whip charge is also $200. In the heat of the moment and with bucks in the balance it is easy enough to see why a driver would CHOOSE to flout the rules. The horse wins, the expected fine is already paid for. Put simply, if whip standards are to be observed, much tougher penaltys should apply in the first place. And Geoff, really, if that was your horse getting the shit kicked out of it for ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE GOOD REASON how would you feel? If the RSPCA saw fit to pursue the offender, he would get no sympathy from me. If the industry was to get a black eye from such behaviour, they have brought it upon themselves by not enforcing strictly enough or having strong enough deterrents in place, in regard to the scant disregard of the over zealous or improper whipping action which we read about in almost every stewards report.

    Its an area the industry could easily improve. IMO a horse will pick up the pace a bit by being tapped up. What are we asking of them when they are fair dinkum under the bat and are well and truly beaten?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    As an Industry we are largely the masters of our own destiny.
    The easiest and by far the best way for Harness Racing to avoid ever having outside forces deciding what is right or wrong for us...is for us to decide what is right or wrong and not only act accordingly but be seen to have acted accordingly. Regulatory have dropped the ball here.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Colt clumsy will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark diegutis View Post
    I can do as I please Geoff & I have. The RSPCA are the only ones capable of doing something about this sort of abuse & the stewards had their chance & pray tell what did they do ... A $200 fine does not cut it.
    The World Horse Welfare Association were present at all olympic equestrian events Geoff, Im sure the horses were treated more humanaly that the thousands that go through the doggers yards every year from the racing industry.
    Don't you dare put the morals of the equestrian trainers & riders in the same cateragory as the racing industry. The racing industry does not compare with their standard.
    Trish
    You have made a big statement here Trish, Why would you think that the equestrian trainers & riders have better morals or care more about their horses than those in the racing industry.Spend a little time at pony club on the weekend and watch how the little darlings ride their horses using their spurs and whips.

  5. #15
    mark diegutis
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    Quote Originally Posted by clumsy View Post
    You have made a big statement here Trish, Why would you think that the equestrian trainers & riders have better morals or care more about their horses than those in the racing industry.Spend a little time at pony club on the weekend and watch how the little darlings ride their horses using their spurs and whips.
    Pony clubs and other equestrian groups operate by a very strict code of conduct . They do not tolerate cruelty . Little darlings with spurs and whips are not committing acts of cruelty . Their pony's have such good lives , they wouldn't move without them .
    The act of hitting a horse with a whip is not what I have a beef about . You couldn't hit them harder than they hit each other . I think the cruelty occurs when the horse has hit the wall and the driver keeps flogging them causing them to "bust" themselves . More dammage is done internally than externally and the worst thing is there is no reason whatsoever to do it . I watched a driver hit his horse 67 times from the 400 at Albion Park and the stewards report said they cautioned him . Unbeleivable
    Mark always said that when he first came into Harness racing , the greatest difference between it and eventing was that in 20 years eventing never once did he witness an act of cruelty , but in harness racing you can see it at every track every day of the week . Big statement ---NO just the truth

  6. #16
    Senior Member Colt clumsy will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark diegutis View Post
    Pony clubs and other equestrian groups operate by a very strict code of conduct . They do not tolerate cruelty . Little darlings with spurs and whips are not committing acts of cruelty . Their pony's have such good lives , they wouldn't move without them .
    The act of hitting a horse with a whip is not what I have a beef about . You couldn't hit them harder than they hit each other . I think the cruelty occurs when the horse has hit the wall and the driver keeps flogging them causing them to "bust" themselves . More dammage is done internally than externally and the worst thing is there is no reason whatsoever to do it . I watched a driver hit his horse 67 times from the 400 at Albion Park and the stewards report said they cautioned him . Unbeleivable
    Mark always said that when he first came into Harness racing , the greatest difference between it and eventing was that in 20 years eventing never once did he witness an act of cruelty , but in harness racing you can see it at every track every day of the week . Big statement ---NO just the truth
    I do not know of any horse racing group that tolerates cruelty,we all have a different use for our horses and one sport cannot say that they treat their horses any better than the other. It might surprise you but we all love our horses even though we have different uses for them. Remember these same animals have helped build our country by ploughing our land and helping to fight our wars. The pleasure horse of today entertains us in many different ways and as such should be appreciated by all of us no matter what discipline we follow.
    I am now watching the jumping at the olympic games and enjoying it, lighten up Trish and enjoy the great sport of harness racing. The few that cheat and be cruel to their horses will get what they deserve. The stewards have erred on this one

  7. #17
    Senior Member 3YO strong persuader has a spectacular aura about strong persuader's Avatar
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    Cannot agree with Trish here, every horse discipline will have an element of people who shouldn't be allowed to keep a pet rock let alone be entrusted with the care of a live animal.

    One of the recent discussions is about a technique called rollkur, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UwqyMCr_7c This is where the horse is tied in such a position as to enforce hyperflexion of the neck to achieve what the rider/owner deems to be a desired look.

    This is no better than a trainer whacking on a barbed wire rein to stop a horse lugging, yes I have seen it done!

    This is one case where the Stewards would have been quite right to come down heavy with a large fine and perhaps even some form of disqualification, as suspension still allows the mug to drive in trials.

    The plight of the industry is in our own hands, the authorities need to get on board with the majority of people who are in the sport because they love the animal and stop aligning themselves with those that are just looking to make a dollar out of the game.
    Warning: Horses are expensive, addictive, and may impair the ability to use common sense.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark diegutis View Post
    Mark always said that when he first came into Harness racing , the greatest difference between it and eventing was that in 20 years eventing never once did he witness an act of cruelty , but in harness racing you can see it at every track every day of the week . Big statement ---NO just the truth
    [VVV] Every track, every week? Trish, that's an extremely innacurate characterisation.
    I've been involved in Harness Racing in one way or another since back when I was too short to even see over the outside fence and instead had to watch proceedings through the mesh, which is I guess some 39 years or so. In all of that time the number of times I have seen or have been reliably told about someone being straight up cruel to a horse is very small indeed. Instances are memorable no doubt...but by no means commonplace.
    Harness, TB's, Jumps, Eventing, Pony Club, Polo, Endurance, you name it.......there's no equine persuit that is a paragon of virtue & none that have a mortgage on bad behaviour.
    Unfortunately there will always be someone who loses their shit & lines one up or there will be someone who thinks the way to get one to go straight is to, as Phil noted, use a bit of barbed wire on a line or whatever.
    When that happens there's no better pressure that can be brought to bear in any and all such instances than peer pressure, hence the reason for this thread. If that doesn't happen then the next step is suffering the morally anointed, batik sarong wearing, forelock tugging outrage of the Free The Battery Hens Collective & their associated minions...and that, as an Industry, we do not need.

  9. #19
    Member Yearling geoffkel will become famous soon enough
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    Look I agree that it is not the right thing to be doing in a trial and yes the driver deserves a large fine.
    As for the arguement about equestrian treating horses better than the racing industry what a joke, some of the things I have seen at past equestrian events would definitely open your eyes to the real world.
    World Horse Welfare Association what a joke. Run mostly by members of the eventing fraternity no doubt!!!

  10. #20
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    I was at a cross country event in VIC once where a horse was ridden so hard for so far that it charged down a hill, ploughed into a pretty deep water obstacle with a big splash, went under and never re-surfaced. The rider was left floundering around in the water. I reckon the horse had a heart attack.

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