Trial 1 @ Menangle yesterday

[Toohard]

Not related to the thread but a bit of 'trivia' regarding that horse in the trial.

It was one of the horses that won one of those 37 races listed regarding the swabbing scandal.

Race 6 Menangle 18/10/2010.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Have a quick look at the clip of Race 2 from the the link I have just added yes it is from 2008 and prior to the whip rules changing but I do not recall any moral outrage from either Mark or Trish when this particular horse won under pretty vigorous whip use ...

Apparently Moral outrage is a dish best served cold.

Reporting the trial incident from this week to the RSPCA was over reaction in its highest form, the stewards dealt with the matter and imposed a penalty under the guidelines as they now stand, I am sure you will no doubt recall the penalties were much harsher when the whip rules first changed but it was the industry participants themselves that lobbied hard to have them reduced.... Talk about having your cake and eating it.

http://www.harness.org.au/meeting-re...R250908&ms=nsw

[eliteblood]

Absolutely chalk and cheese Bill, both in the extent of the whip usage and in the circumstances (one being driven out to win a race vs the other being flogged to run last in a trial)

[Thevoiceofreason]

Absolutely chalk and cheese Bill, both in the extent of the whip usage and in the circumstances (one being driven out to win a race vs the other being flogged to run last in a trial)

Do not get me wrong I am not in anyway condoning the actions in the trial, I am am however saying reporting this incident to the RSPCA is as over the top in reaction to the whip use is its self.

It may have been different if the incident went either unpunished or even worse unnoticed but it did not.

[strong persuader]

Just as an aside, this is where I think we are a bit backwards in our thinking regarding the whip. We encourage/allow drivers to drive a horse out in a tight finish, yet condemn anyone giving one that is dropping out a few good cracks..........Isn't this punishing the horse for getting close to the front end of the field and rewarding them for tailing off in a race!

I personally recall a horse that Dad raced many years ago, Tolaser. In his third win, I tailed him pretty good in a tight finish and got the bickies by a small margin. That horse never tried ever again, he would even begin lugging in the score up, after having been a fairly good beginner, just so he would race in the back half of the field and never ever tried to get in the finish.

I actually chastised Cynthia after Charlie Cullen's win for her efforts with the whip, as I felt she was trying to hit him too hard, and this horse has been pretty well punished in prior runs. I said that she only needs to keep tapping away at him, as like most horses, they are usually trying their best for you without needing to punish them with the whip. In my years, we have only had one horse that you had to hit to keep him trying, but even then, you didn't need to punish him, just keep giving him light smacks.

I confess to having come from the old school days when head down and whacking as hard as you could seemed to be the best way to drive one out. As a matter of fact, I even had one leading driver remark amongst a group that I was one of the few drivers he had seen that could turn a horse around when I hit them! But experience has taught me that this isn't the best way.

[dizzy]

I was at a cross country event in VIC once where a horse was ridden so hard for so far that it charged down a hill, ploughed into a pretty deep water obstacle with a big splash, went under and never re-surfaced. The rider was left floundering around in the water. I reckon the horse had a heart attack.

Wow I participated and/or followed eventing for 35 years now VVV and I never heard or read about a horse never resurfacing at the water jump so thats amazing VVV that you were there when it happened. You know the depth of the water in the water obstacle is covered in the rules, as is the footing, so they really cant be "pretty deep".

Only a few months ago I did hear about a standardbred yearling being long reined that dissappeared into a dam in all its gear, sadly between the reeds and the hopples he didn't make it out again. I'm sure you know enough people to check it out VVV if you don't believe me, it was on the south coast.

But event horses certainly do have heart attacks, 2 at the last British selection trial before the games even, a very sad occurrence, and event horses do run a reasonably high risk of catastrophic breakdowns and in a much rarer occurence the individual showjumping gold medal winner from Bejing died leaving the ring at a show in Verona Italy late last year from a ruptured aorta. But these are much rarer occurences in sports horses then they are in race horses.

You are right though VVV in that no horse sport has a mortage on cruel acts, they do occur in all horse pursuits, some intentional, some unwitting and on some occasions perfectly reasonable people manage to replace their head with a pumpkin, which is not an excuse for what they do.

Trish I'd have to say if Mark went eventing for 20 years and never saw a cruel act then perhaps he needed to look a little closer because I have no doubt they would have occurred but I do agree the prevelance in harness racing is greater. Phil "rolkur" has been banned for a number of years now and any rider caught using it will be santioned by either their national federation or the FEI. Of course it would be naive to think it doesn't still occur, afterall Anky Van Grunsven won literally a dozen gold medals using it, and like harness racing stewards equestrian officials cannot be all places at once.

Geoff despite what VVV thinks I have owned and looked after the vast majority of my own horses for 35 years and each has got the same standard of care, its only in the last 10 years that they have been standardbreds and I have repeatedly been told I spoil them. The phrase "cut its head off" is not in common usage in equestrian sport.

As to the original point of the topic, the drivers whip use was way out of line, and I think the penalty from the stewards should have been more significant. But my question to you VVV is if we do not need the "outrage of the free the battery hens collective and associated minions" why did you raise this on a public forum, where no doubt many a search engine can find it, instead of raising it directly with the stewards and/or the CEO to ensure it was dealt with appropriately? Afterall we know you have the number.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Dot the stewards have already dealt with it .... end of ... ring them all day every day and they can not rehear the case without fresh evidence so not much point ringing them.. later today I will watch the NRL and in every game a player or captain will argue with the reff about decisions.... have a guess what, not one will be changed, not one.

[dizzy]

Dot the stewards have already dealt with it .... end of ... ring them all day every day and they can not rehear the case without fresh evidence so not much point ringing them.. later today I will watch the NRL and in every game a player or captain will argue with the reff about decisions.... have a guess what, not one will be changed, not one.

Bill if you return to page 1 of this thread it is clearly evident that VVV started it without knowing what, if any action, the stewards took. My point is if you are truely concerned about the welfare of the horse and the image of the industry then shouldn't your first point of call be within our own industry, not a public forum. Decisions in a game may not be changed by lobbying the enforcers or makers of the rules, but the rules may be changed by doing so

[Triple V]

That is quite true Dot. I started this thread fully expecting that, because it was a trial, it had been completely ignored by Regulatory.
As odd as it may sound, you know I probably would have coped with that scenario (it having been completely ignored) a fair bit better than subsequently finding out that it was indeed seen but all it scored was a $200 slap on the wrist.
The Grapevine tells me that henceforth such behaviour will never be dealt on such a lenient basis, so at least something good has come from it all.

[Frano1982]

Not going over old ground again, but have a look at the replay of Race 7 at Newcastle yesterday...
I believe this was worse than what happened in that trial and the driver of the third horse only got a reprimand???