Raceday Medications USA

[dizzy]

TBs reduced starts...higher population, less time fiddling with those that aren't good enough.

1400m track at Menangle. Consistently faster times.

Brenno the higher population has been suggested as a cause but on its own is not enough. Some certainly are discarded but the claiming and conditioned racing in the states and the proliferation of tracks in the mid west give horse more opportunities then they would get in Oz, but the permisive medication rules have ruined claiming and conditioned racing by facilitating the rise of the chemists.

Commercial breeding has also been touted as a course but again doesn't invole enough numbers.

The two biggest causes are increasing unsoundness in the breed ( a lot as the result of linebreeding to Raise a Native) and the increased recovery time as a result of the effects of racing on lasixs which cause dehydration and electrolyte imbalances.


Brenno as a punter (thats you obviously not me!) what does consistently faster times on a track that is incompatable with all other really mean?

[Triple V]

Jaimie, it must be assumed then that you haven't read the article from whence the quote was obtained, otherwise you wouldn't dispute it.

[VVV] Hello there Little Sir Echo...we have you been hiding?

[Triple V]

VVV no doubt this will be beyond your comprehension

CLASS 4 This class includes therapeutic medications that would be expected to have less potential to affect performance then thosein CLASS 3. Drugs in this class include less potent diuretics, corticosteroids, antihitimines and skeletal muscle relaxants without prominent central nervous system effects; expectorants and mucolytics; hemostatics; cardiac glycosides and anti arrythmics; topical anestetics; anti diahiarreals and mild analgesics. This classification also includes non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs at concentrations greater then established limits.

Now VVV as you will no doubt have no idea what that means let me give you just one to sink your teeth into- Phenylbutozone, perhaps I should use the simple name though, give you half a chance to get it -BUTE

I don't know how to put it any simpler then I already have VVV, you do not have to risk a class one positive for morphine when you can go well over the therapeutic threshold allowed for bute and meerly get a slap on the wrist. VVV you keep the race and the prizemoney and in many instances pay nothing more then a fine of a few hundred dollars.

VVV you claim to have an enquiring mind, why don't you read the chemical horse article you may be surprised by what you learn

[VVV] Dot, both yourself and your mate Little Sir Echo (who rather notably wasn't able to answer any of the questions put to him with regard to his statements) need to get some sort of a grip on reality here.

As VOR has repeatedly told you both and as you have both repeatedly ignored, the fact is that the VAST majority of overages are of a therapeutic nature.

Despite VOR's good advice, undaunted you chose to line up on US Racing and then tied in with it a bagging of the durability of the resultant sires and siring prospects as a result of the use of drugs.

Well here's a jolt back into the real world for you.

Of ALL the tests taken from both racehorse codes in the USA in 2011, some 325,423 samples in total, less than one half of 1% (0.491%)..... or just short of 1600 of them....actually returned a positive test to anything.

Of those just short of 1600 that returned a positive test, 94.5% were overages of legal equine therapeutic medications.

On the flipside, genuine attempts at doping horses with Class 1 or Class 2 substances accounted for less than 0.012% of the tests conducted, some 39 instances in total from 325,423.

Clearly your position on this subject and that of Little Sir Echo...is simply not born out by the cold, hard facts.

[aussiebreno]

Brenno as a punter (thats you obviously not me!) what does consistently faster times on a track that is incompatable with all other really mean?

Your post (most of which I deleted from this quote) certaintly is truthful to my limited knowledge and opinion, but mentioned the increased population just to balance it out.

As for this last bit I've left quoted...not sure what you are getting at???

[Viv Strangman]

[QUOTE=dizzy;22795]Brenno the higher population has been suggested as a cause but on its own is not enough. Some certainly are discarded but the claiming and conditioned racing in the states and the proliferation of tracks in the mid west give horse more opportunities then they would get in Oz, but the permisive medication rules have ruined claiming and conditioned racing by facilitating the rise of the chemists.

Commercial breeding has also been touted as a course but again doesn't invole enough numbers.

The two biggest causes are increasing unsoundness in the breed ( a lot as the result of linebreeding to Raise a Native) and the increased recovery time as a result of the effects of racing on lasixs which cause dehydration and electrolyte imbalances.
What a load of rubbish. I travel to the US regularly and have done so for over 30 years.
I have yet to read anything in your numerous posts that is even close to being an accurate summation of the American situation. Please take the time to become better informed.At the present your posts are less than enlightening and more worthy of a place in the National Enquirer.

[dizzy]

[VVV] Dot, both yourself and your mate Little Sir Echo (who rather notably wasn't able to answer any of the questions put to him with regard to his statements) need to get some sort of a grip on reality here.

As VOR has repeatedly told you both and as you have both repeatedly ignored, the fact is that the VAST majority of overages are of a therapeutic nature.

Despite VOR's good advice, undaunted you chose to line up on US Racing and then tied in with it a bagging of the durability of the resultant sires and siring prospects as a result of the use of drugs.

Well here's a jolt back into the real world for you.

Of ALL the tests taken from both racehorse codes in the USA in 2011, some 325,423 samples in total, less than one half of 1% (0.491%)..... or just short of 1600 of them....actually returned a positive test to anything.

Of those just short of 1600 that returned a positive test, 94.5% were overages of legal equine therapeutic medications.

On the flipside, genuine attempts at doping horses with Class 1 or Class 2 substances accounted for less than 0.012% of the tests conducted, some 39 instances in total from 325,423.

Clearly your position on this subject and that of Little Sir Echo...is simply not born out by the cold, hard facts.

VVV I cant imagine why you would think that I'm not actually familiar with the testing data you have posted, and clearly you are off in your own little world of alternative reality because the data they contain, and from the 10 preceeding years, actually supports the quote that Lee posted here not refutes it.

But first lets recap a little. I commenced this thread because you and Bill were adamant that public opinion on the use of therapeutic drugs in racehorse counted for little if anything. The current happenings in the US regarding owners pledging to ban raceday lasix in their 2yos indicate that to be far from the case. I referred to an article printed in the NY times to indicate the kind of pressure being brough to bear. Though you may not like it VVV many of the catastrophic raceday breakdowns are linked to the raceday permitted use of corticosteroids and pain masking medications that are permitted in a horses system during a race in many jurisdictions in the US. These medications do not need to be present above the defined threshold applied to them to cause the problem. And despite your previous riddicule at my totally self confessed inability to write for you your precious list I steered you into where to find one. The American Jockey Club is looking at it, but believe me it is no way near as simple to produce as you obviously believe.

I also indicated that harness racing in the US is conducted under the same medication rules as TB and Quarter horse racing, and refered to some legends of our sport that raced prior to the era of permitted medications. I also referred to an article called the chemical horse as it is a thoroughly researched document that takes the reader through the evolution of drug use in US racing. I found it an interesting read, I'm sure Lee did to, and posted a quote from it, which you clearly do not understand and perhaps some others also found it an interesting read.

So far you and Bill have tried to turn it into an EIPH lasix thread, it isn't, you've tried to claim that I am misrepresenting what is happening in the states, I'm not nowhere have I said that the US is moving to drug free racing, they aren't, the changes are, at present, about raceday therapeutic medications. You tried to move it to illegal raceday meds in era I refered to, that just made them even more durable horses. Now you are moving onto the testing data from the US which you clearly aren't able to see supports both the quote posted by Lee and the push to reduce/eliminate LEGAL raceday medications.

VVV the data has been fairly static, and overall quite low for the last 10 years with regard to class 1 violations (but will spike this year because of the new test developed for Dermorphin-Frog Juice), and actually has reduced overall about 20% for total violations, and yes the vast majority of positives are for class 4 medications. This is exactly what the quote lee posted is referring to. Once again for VVV as he obviously missed it before is you don't need to risk a class 1 violation when you can get away with a class four one. They rarely lose a race for a class 4, but pay a fine and sometimes serve a few days of suspention.

And by the way VVV the US doesn't have "both racehorse codes" they actually have three. And as you have indicated the vast majority of tests are negative, yet their horses are breaking down at rate far greater then ours competing on legal raceday pain masking medications. Is there a bell ringing somewhere for you yet VVV? No you cant hear it? Believe me it is ringing loud and clear now in the US.

Now with regard to the stallions I mentioned previously, and it was remiss of me not to include Abercrombie for surely he is as worthy a candidate as the previous four, what stallions VVV say in the last decade or even two have retired to stud with the same type of acclaim and record as these 5? Names please VVV. Artsplace and Western Hanover did not have as many starts. Much as you may not like it VVV it is a simple fact that in this day and age many if not most siring prospects are retired to stud before exhibiting the same degree of durability on the track as the legends previously mentioned.

Another fact of public record that should concern breeders VVV even though you are obviously prepared to brush over it is the race records of the aforementioned 2008, 2009, 2010 USTA 2yo's of the year, who were obviously fast and acclaimed horses. Major In Art retired unsound at the end of 10 starts in his 2yo season, Sportswriter retired unsound after 14 starts midway through his 3yo season and Big Jim whilst he managed 20 starts, 10 each in his 2 and 3 year old seasons was unsound for the majority of his 3yo season. So where does soundness fit into your "form and function" breeding equation VVV?

Now VVV one your favourite topic of therapeutic medications, let me try and explain to you one more time that it is virtually impossible to pigeon hole most drugs into a single catagory as the manner in which they are used most definately comes into it. EPO is a therapeautic medication, did you get that VVV? Let me shout for you EPO IS A THERAPEUTIC MEDICATION, when it is being used with medical advice in a patient with chronic renal failure. It is NOT a therapeutic medication when used in either a human or equine athlete, in that circumstance it is an illegal performance enhancing drug.

Paracetomol is the active therapeutic ingredient in countless over the counter medications for pain relief, including panadol, sold and used in their thousands around the world everyday. But ask the relatives and friends of those who have died from acute liver failure from overdosing on paracetomol what they think of the drug I doubt any of them would tell you that it is very therapeutic

[dizzy]

[QUOTE=Viv Strangman;22807]

Brenno the higher population has been suggested as a cause but on its own is not enough. Some certainly are discarded but the claiming and conditioned racing in the states and the proliferation of tracks in the mid west give horse more opportunities then they would get in Oz, but the permisive medication rules have ruined claiming and conditioned racing by facilitating the rise of the chemists.

Commercial breeding has also been touted as a course but again doesn't invole enough numbers.

The two biggest causes are increasing unsoundness in the breed ( a lot as the result of linebreeding to Raise a Native) and the increased recovery time as a result of the effects of racing on lasixs which cause dehydration and electrolyte imbalances.
What a load of rubbish. I travel to the US regularly and have done so for over 30 years.
I have yet to read anything in your numerous posts that is even close to being an accurate summation of the American situation. Please take the time to become better informed.At the present your posts are less than enlightening and more worthy of a place in the National Enquirer.

Viv please feel free to share your better informed opinion



This is an excert taken from a statement entitled "Racing Medication Use" released by the American Quarter Horse Assosciation published July 1 2012


....."Lets talk about the big issue, which is the public's perception of our sport. I believe, very strongly, that we need massive fundamental changes to the way we race horses, and if we don't do something to convert the image that the public has of our sport now, it will go the way of the dodo, it will become extinct................We must reinvent the way we do our sport. We must make dramatic changes in public perception. One of the ways we do that is to erase the perception that all these horses are racing on performance enhancing drugs............................

I'm sure those who are interested can find the full release via google.

[dizzy]

Your post (most of which I deleted from this quote) certaintly is truthful to my limited knowledge and opinion, but mentioned the increased population just to balance it out.

As for this last bit I've left quoted...not sure what you are getting at???

Brenno I breed and train, I know what relevance the consistently faster times at Menangle have to me. Your interest, at present at least, would seem to be mostly with punting, or as the Americans say "handicapping". As a punter or handicapper what relevence does the consistently faster times at Menangle have to you?

[matrightyeh]

very true would luv to here more

[teecee]

[QUOTE=dizzy;22809]

Viv please feel free to share your better informed opinion



This is an excert taken from a statement entitled "Racing Medication Use" released by the American Quarter Horse Assosciation published July 1 2012


....."Lets talk about the big issue, which is the public's perception of our sport. I believe, very strongly, that we need massive fundamental changes to the way we race horses, and if we don't do something to convert the image that the public has of our sport now, it will go the way of the dodo, it will become extinct................We must reinvent the way we do our sport. We must make dramatic changes in public perception. One of the ways we do that is to erase the perception that all these horses are racing on performance enhancing drugs............................

I'm sure those who are interested can find the full release via google.

I take it this is the article to which you refer. If you wish to back up your argument / point of view by quote from others articles please supply the link. This is a requirement of the forum. Your posts may otherwise be deleted.
http://aqha.com/Racing/News-Articles...ation-Use.aspx