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  1. #41
    Senior Member 4YO Thevoiceofreason has a spectacular aura about
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebreno View Post
    VOR,

    Haven't heard much about this, too busy complaining Ryan Moores ride and ridiculous betting %s at Griffith, but apparently a QLD trainer was nabbed down in Melbourne today and got caught red handed. Stewards asked to search his car. He denied them access for personal reasons.
    What is the ruling there. Are stewards allowed to freely search cars? Possibly allowed with permission, possibly allowed even if the trainer denies them access?
    I will have to search the current rules but I would think the trainer is in a fair bit of drama.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    Well Bill, maybe you could explain this double standard to me.

    Danny Nikolic was banned from race riding solely on the evidence provided by steward Terry Bailey. Serious, but unproven allegations that no doubt stem from the long and ongoing investigations into race-fixing. Nikolic strenuously denied making these threats. Judge McNamara denied Nikolics appeal to resume riding until the full appeal is heard today 7/11/12, post Melbourne Cup (how convenient). You might take note of McNamaras observation of public confidence in stewards upholding racings integrity toward the end of the article. Here it is http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-1...-fails/4316518

    It is alleged that Damian Oliver has admitted to police he DID place that $10,000 bet.

    One bloke has denied unproven allegations and gets 2 years. Another bloke makes an admission and nothing gets done.

    One bloke in the eyes of the public has a history of run-ins with stewards, the other bloke is an idol to some, a golden boy that they made a movie about.

  3. #43
    Senior Member 4YO Thevoiceofreason has a spectacular aura about
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncobrad View Post
    Well Bill, maybe you could explain this double standard to me.

    Danny Nikolic was banned from race riding solely on the evidence provided by steward Terry Bailey. Serious, but unproven allegations that no doubt stem from the long and ongoing investigations into race-fixing. Nikolic strenuously denied making these threats. Judge McNamara denied Nikolics appeal to resume riding until the full appeal is heard today 7/11/12, post Melbourne Cup (how convenient). You might take note of McNamaras observation of public confidence in stewards upholding racings integrity toward the end of the article. Here it is http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-1...-fails/4316518

    It is alleged that Damian Oliver has admitted to police he DID place that $10,000 bet.

    One bloke has denied unproven allegations and gets 2 years. Another bloke makes an admission and nothing gets done.

    One bloke in the eyes of the public has a history of run-ins with stewards, the other bloke is an idol to some, a golden boy that they made a movie about.
    I tend to agree on face value there appears to have been a very different approach taken with the D Nikolic case, having said that Nikolic appealed every decision taken against him and got loss after loss in relation to getting stays of proceedings so he could continue riding .... I suspect because of this there is more meat to the allegations than has been made public.

    In relation to any admissions made to the police by D Oliver I think that given that the police have not charged him with any offence they are of little use and the stewards need to run an independent investigation that is assuming of course the police can even release that information to RVL which by the way my understanding is technically they can not.

    I think the need for that approach has already been made clear by the ongoing investigation in NSW which has followed a similar path.

    Interestingly Jockey Mark Zarah was also alleged back in August to have accepted a payment to influence the outcome of the "Smoking Aces" race neither he or Nikolic were stood down over this investigation which is ongoing, again in my view a consistent approach.

    I have said many time quoting Judges from appeals that "every case turns on its own fact and circumstances".... There can be no better example of this than the decision of the stewards to scratch Beseech yesterday.

    "Stewards scratched Beseech at 2.45pm after Schofield was caught preparing to tube the horse after telling stewards "it hadn't drank the best overnight".

    The stewards compliance assurance team scaled a fence at the Geelong stables of Shane Edwards and caught Schofield with a "twitch, bucket, tube and funnel" in a hessian bag along with a "measuring container with 400 mils of warm water".

    Even from this report taken from racenet the trainer has admitted he had or was about to drench the horse and even gave reasons as to why plus the fluid was there and ready with the horse. This is a far cry from the circumstances and evidence put forward by the Howmuchdoyouloveme team last Saturday and hence the different result in relation to the scratching of the horse... the devil is in the detail as they say.
    Last edited by Thevoiceofreason; 11-07-2012 at 11:52 AM.

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  5. #45
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    In the attached article Peter McGauran, ARB CEO states "Recent wrongdoings by jockeys and trainers have damaged the image and public perception of racing".

    I would say their snow job of keeping it all hush hush until the spotlight was finally off them (following the last race of the Spring carnival) and finally lifting the lid on all the dirty laundry that needed to be put through the wringer was nothing short of an outstanding success. Now it appears the dung heap just keeps producing more stench than the handy can of Glen Air 20 can cope with.

    I find it laughable that after the carnival, the Minister for Racing, Dennis Napthine is now asking the question "when the allegations against Oliver starting gaining credibility why wasn't he stood down". Now I have already heard TVOR's explanation as to why. Can't wait till we hear what the Vic Racing come up with.

    Now that the dust has settled and the once a year punters eyes are back on the cricket and other family orientated activity, new/heavier/public opinion weighted new rules are on the table. (Still piss poor in my opinion) Maybe for starters, they could refer to some of the new guidelines that HRNSW have adopted. And while they are at it they could look to HRNSW for a bit guidance in recognising how far a sport can fall before REAL action starts to happen. I am not saying our game is smelling like roses but it sure smells better than the dung heap over the border in Vic thoroughbred racing. Then again, who would have thought someone would have the temerity to make such a statement when comparing the two codes

    http://www.news.com.au/news/racing-c...-1226521952323

  6. #46
    Senior Member 4YO Thevoiceofreason has a spectacular aura about
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncobrad View Post
    In the attached article Peter McGauran, ARB CEO states "Recent wrongdoings by jockeys and trainers have damaged the image and public perception of racing".

    I would say their snow job of keeping it all hush hush until the spotlight was finally off them (following the last race of the Spring carnival) and finally lifting the lid on all the dirty laundry that needed to be put through the wringer was nothing short of an outstanding success. Now it appears the dung heap just keeps producing more stench than the handy can of Glen Air 20 can cope with.

    I find it laughable that after the carnival, the Minister for Racing, Dennis Napthine is now asking the question "when the allegations against Oliver starting gaining credibility why wasn't he stood down". Now I have already heard TVOR's explanation as to why. Can't wait till we hear what the Vic Racing come up with.

    Now that the dust has settled and the once a year punters eyes are back on the cricket and other family orientated activity, new/heavier/public opinion weighted new rules are on the table. (Still piss poor in my opinion) Maybe for starters, they could refer to some of the new guidelines that HRNSW have adopted. And while they are at it they could look to HRNSW for a bit guidance in recognising how far a sport can fall before REAL action starts to happen. I am not saying our game is smelling like roses but it sure smells better than the dung heap over the border in Vic thoroughbred racing. Then again, who would have thought someone would have the temerity to make such a statement when comparing the two codes

    http://www.news.com.au/news/racing-c...-1226521952323
    Here are RVL reasons for oliver being allowed to ride .... cop the tip the Minister will be satisfied because of the legals.

    The new penalties to be discussed by the ARB will not happen.

    Committee releases sequence of events that transpired during the Damien Oliver investigation
    The Racing Victoria Investigation Committee overseeing Damien Oliver's bet on Miss Octopussy at Moonee Valley on 1 October 2010 has released a chronology of the sequence of events that transpired during the investigation;

    1. The Investigative Committee was initially appointed by the Board of Racing Victoria on 21 August 2012 under Rule of Racing AR 7(iii)(c) to investigate the race fixing media reports relating to the race won by Smoking Aces. On 30 August 2012, the Board extended the Committee's brief to investigate the allegation against Damien Oliver shortly after receipt of an Information Report from the Racing Integrity Commissioner, Sal Perna.

    2. The Information Report centred on an allegation from an unidentified source, that Damien Oliver had placed a $10,000 bet on Miss Octopussy which was a rival horse in race 6 at Moonee Valley Racecourse on 1October 2010. Mr Oliver rode Europa Point in the race.

    3. The Investigative Committee comprised Rob Montgomery, Deputy Chairman of Stewards and James Hitchcock, Stipendiary Steward. Tony Burns, Barrister, was engaged to assist with independent legal advice.

    4. The Rules of Racing operate as a contract between Racing Victoria and licensed persons. The Stewards' powers have certain limitations in that there is no power to compel non-licensed persons to assist with investigations nor do the Stewards generally have access to police information. Within these constraints, the Committee began the substantial task of gathering evidence, including the interviewing of key witnesses.

    5. On 16 October 2012, the Committee contacted Mr Oliver to make an appointment to conduct an interview. Through his solicitors, Mr Oliver was reluctant to be interviewed by the Committee having regard to his legal right to silence.

    6. Notwithstanding Mr Oliver's initial position, on 22 October 2012, Mr Oliver's legal representatives contacted the Committee and requested a "without prejudice" conference, which was held between Mr Oliver's legal representatives and the Committee on that day.

    7. Without prejudice discussions continued between Mr Oliver's legal representatives and the Committee up until 12 November 2012. As these discussions were held on a without prejudice basis, the Committee was obliged to maintain the confidentiality of those discussions and not to disclose the content of those discussions.

    8. Throughout the period of without prejudice discussions between Mr Oliver's solicitors and the Committee, the Committee continued with the task of obtaining further evidence, and in this regard, the following key witnesses were interviewed on the dates as indicated:

    · 25 October 2012: Mark Hunter, racehorse owner, form analyst and punter;

    · 1 November 2012: Robert Smerdon, licensed trainer;

    · 5 November 2012: Lee Freedman, licensed trainer of Europa Point; and


    · 7 November 2012: Laurie Bricknell, racehorse owner, retired bookmaker, punter and resident in Queensland

    9. During this time, the Committee gave careful consideration as to whether immediate action should or could be taken against Mr Oliver (including standing him down) prior to the laying of formal charges.

    10. The Committee formed the view that its best prospects of securing a certain conviction was to obtain an admission of guilt from Mr Oliver. Accordingly, the option of standing Mr Oliver down prior to the laying of charges was not pursued by the Committee on the basis that this would have most likely jeopardised an admission being obtained which would be admissible in any Stewards Inquiry.

    11. The Committee also took into account that an admission would most likely provide further evidence in relation to the actions of others.

    12. The signed admission was provided to the Committee on the afternoon of Monday 12 November 2012 at which time the Committee was in a position to prepare a brief to support charges being laid against Mr Oliver.

    13. The following day, on 13 November 2012, Racing Victoria Stewards charged Mr Oliver with breaches of the Rules of Racing. Also on 13 November 2012, the Stewards stood Mr Oliver down under Rule of Racing AR 193 pending the hearing and determination of the charges and scheduled a Stewards inquiry for 10.00 am on 20 November 2012.

    14. It should be noted that the Committee's inquiries into the matters raised during the investigation are ongoing.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    I wonder if anyone thought to brief the Minister whilst all the cloak and dagger stuff was being carried out. Maybe someone in Victoria could tell us for sure, but from where I sit, Napthine DOES seem to take an active interest in all things racing, loves a photo op and has been delivering on promises. It would be a tad personally embarrassing for him I would think to have been left out of the loop. Between the Stewards, the Integrity mob and the Minister, who is talking to who?

    All that said, it has still been an exercise in hush hush, while Olly got to reap further rewards for his crimes. I wonder if the prizemoney he has earned over the carnival is rightfully his because of a deal that had been struck through this 'without prejudice' stuff (never heard of anything like this before, how common would this stuff be Bill). In other quarters these ill-gotten gains could be argued to be proceeds/profits from possible criminal activity, thats not an accusation, that is an observation.

    Thanks for the facts Bill. Why do you dismiss outright that the new proposals will not happen?

  8. #48
    Senior Member 4YO Lucky Camilla"s Lovechild will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thevoiceofreason View Post
    Here are RVL reasons for oliver being allowed to ride .... cop the tip the Minister will be satisfied because of the legals.

    The new penalties to be discussed by the ARB will not happen.

    Committee releases sequence of events that transpired during the Damien Oliver investigation
    The Racing Victoria Investigation Committee overseeing Damien Oliver's bet on Miss Octopussy at Moonee Valley on 1 October 2010 has released a chronology of the sequence of events that transpired during the investigation;

    1. The Investigative Committee was initially appointed by the Board of Racing Victoria on 21 August 2012 under Rule of Racing AR 7(iii)(c) to investigate the race fixing media reports relating to the race won by Smoking Aces. On 30 August 2012, the Board extended the Committee's brief to investigate the allegation against Damien Oliver shortly after receipt of an Information Report from the Racing Integrity Commissioner, Sal Perna.

    2. The Information Report centred on an allegation from an unidentified source, that Damien Oliver had placed a $10,000 bet on Miss Octopussy which was a rival horse in race 6 at Moonee Valley Racecourse on 1October 2010. Mr Oliver rode Europa Point in the race.

    3. The Investigative Committee comprised Rob Montgomery, Deputy Chairman of Stewards and James Hitchcock, Stipendiary Steward. Tony Burns, Barrister, was engaged to assist with independent legal advice.

    4. The Rules of Racing operate as a contract between Racing Victoria and licensed persons. The Stewards' powers have certain limitations in that there is no power to compel non-licensed persons to assist with investigations nor do the Stewards generally have access to police information. Within these constraints, the Committee began the substantial task of gathering evidence, including the interviewing of key witnesses.

    5. On 16 October 2012, the Committee contacted Mr Oliver to make an appointment to conduct an interview. Through his solicitors, Mr Oliver was reluctant to be interviewed by the Committee having regard to his legal right to silence.

    6. Notwithstanding Mr Oliver's initial position, on 22 October 2012, Mr Oliver's legal representatives contacted the Committee and requested a "without prejudice" conference, which was held between Mr Oliver's legal representatives and the Committee on that day.

    7. Without prejudice discussions continued between Mr Oliver's legal representatives and the Committee up until 12 November 2012. As these discussions were held on a without prejudice basis, the Committee was obliged to maintain the confidentiality of those discussions and not to disclose the content of those discussions.

    8. Throughout the period of without prejudice discussions between Mr Oliver's solicitors and the Committee, the Committee continued with the task of obtaining further evidence, and in this regard, the following key witnesses were interviewed on the dates as indicated:

    · 25 October 2012: Mark Hunter, racehorse owner, form analyst and punter;

    · 1 November 2012: Robert Smerdon, licensed trainer;

    · 5 November 2012: Lee Freedman, licensed trainer of Europa Point; and


    · 7 November 2012: Laurie Bricknell, racehorse owner, retired bookmaker, punter and resident in Queensland

    9. During this time, the Committee gave careful consideration as to whether immediate action should or could be taken against Mr Oliver (including standing him down) prior to the laying of formal charges.

    10. The Committee formed the view that its best prospects of securing a certain conviction was to obtain an admission of guilt from Mr Oliver. Accordingly, the option of standing Mr Oliver down prior to the laying of charges was not pursued by the Committee on the basis that this would have most likely jeopardised an admission being obtained which would be admissible in any Stewards Inquiry.

    11. The Committee also took into account that an admission would most likely provide further evidence in relation to the actions of others.

    12. The signed admission was provided to the Committee on the afternoon of Monday 12 November 2012 at which time the Committee was in a position to prepare a brief to support charges being laid against Mr Oliver.

    13. The following day, on 13 November 2012, Racing Victoria Stewards charged Mr Oliver with breaches of the Rules of Racing. Also on 13 November 2012, the Stewards stood Mr Oliver down under Rule of Racing AR 193 pending the hearing and determination of the charges and scheduled a Stewards inquiry for 10.00 am on 20 November 2012.

    14. It should be noted that the Committee's inquiries into the matters raised during the investigation are ongoing.
    Sounds like the tail wagging the dog to me!

  9. #49
    Senior Member 4YO Thevoiceofreason has a spectacular aura about
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    Brad

    I think the big issue lies in the premise" that each case has to be dealt with on its own facts and circumstances".

    Interestingly RacingNSW are now seen to be making all the noise, it should not be forgotten that not a lifetime ago Jockey Peter Robl was given 6 months for betting by RacingNSW stewards and Jockey Blake Shinn was given 15 months for the same offence there were a lot more bets in these cases and it was estimated at the time up to $500,000 had be wagered. The penalties for each breach or group of breaches were ordered to be severed cumulatively and on one occasion like Oliver, Shinn bet against a horse he rode.

    The Oliver penalty in my view is in line with these penalties and at the end of the day they form a precedent.

    I might be proved wrong, it will not be the first time but this is a storm in a tea cup... integrity issues that are much bigger are horses not being allowed to run on their merits or the gear falling off pacers in a race. ... under the law now days bloody hard to prove to the level a court of law requires..... if you doubt me read some of the judges findings at appeals.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    Just a bit more in the Tele today which I found interesting and not that my opinion matters but I am fine with any jockey having a bet: As long as its the steed they are on top of or the horse they are driving for that matter.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...-1226522301510

    I thought some of the reasons put forward against this proposal by Ray Murrihy were a bit on the fantastic side of reality. What gun trainer John O'Shea has to say just makes sense.

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