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[Thevoiceofreason]

[QUOTE=aussiebreno;23723]

No Brendan you are the one that does not get it Get your head out of Law 101 for a minute, open your eyes and see the real world .... there is no doubt the RV stewards would have withdrawn Howmuchdoyouloveme if they had one shred of evidence it had been treated Yawnnn. I already know that.... As I said before long gone are the days when stewards just ran ruffshot over licensed people. Still yawning.

Also there is a rule in Harness Racing that permits the stewards to stand down a horse once an inquiry is opened without charges being laid and the stewards rightfully so use it whenever it is appropriate.... The same or even a similar rule does not exist in the Gallops in Australia so as much as you (did you forget to read the part where I said "I know why it was allowed to run") and many others might have wanted it to happen the stewards needed solid ground to stand on clearly they did not think they had it. Did you miss the part where I said stewards handled it correctly

One thing Terry Bailey has proven in both codes over a long period of time is he will make the tuff decisions.... if he was not confident enough in the circumstances to order its withdrawal I am very happy to support that decision. Did you miss the part where I said stewards handled it correctly. I'm not having a go at stewards you princess.

I agree in part with your perception argument however the trouble is you can not have perception at the cost of a conviction or even worse a court case where the connections of Howmuchdoyouloveme sue RVL for a loss of prizemoney if they were withdrawn without just cause.Im not saying racing can do anything legitimate about, its just the way, rightfully or wrongfully, it rubs off to Joe Blow. I've raised the same compensation argument with both Howmuchdoyouloveme and Damien Oliver, but Joe Blow just doesn't get it.[/QUOTE]
Legally you are 100% correct. Stewards have acted properly I'm not doubting that.
But I'm not talking about that. Joe Blow has no idea about the legal procedures. Joe Blow out on the street is, rightfully or wrongfully, seeing harness racing doing a good job while thoroughbred racing has copped it recently because Joe Blow doesn't understand the legal processes.
I'm not saying Howmuchyouloveme should have been stood down, I know the rules and have told others - I know perfectly well stewards have done the right thing. But Joe Blow just doesn't get it. Thoroughbred forums are going mad. They are also going mad Damien Oliver is riding in the Melbourne Cup. Oliver has full right to be riding as I've told others, but that doesn't stop Joe Blow getting peeved off (even if its mostly through naivety or being uninformed or lack of brain cells or whatever). And Joe Blow being peeved off is what matters, while the law textbook does not matter.

I have learnt one thing from this post you can type in red

As I said in my first post the issues I raised are not intricacies but the reason process has to rule over perception, your first post was about "The seeming disrepencies from thoroughbreds to harness"

I simply explained why they were not discrepancies and whilst you may well have known all of this it was you who pointed out "Joe Blow" does not and this forum should at least be in part about sharing understanding and information.

I do however remain of the view that process has to hold sway over perception every day of the week.

The princess

[aussiebreno]

[QUOTE=Thevoiceofreason;23724]

I have learnt one thing from this post you can type in red

As I said in my first post the issues I raised are not intricacies but the reason process has to rule over perception, your first post was about "The seeming disrepencies from thoroughbreds to harness"

I simply explained why they were not discrepancies and whilst you may well have known all of this it was you who pointed out "Joe Blow" does not and this forum should at least be in part about sharing understanding and information.

I do however remain of the view that process has to hold sway over perception every day of the week.

"Seeming' discrepancies. Good reason for differences in final outcomes but they 'seem' like discrepancies to a lot of people.
I did make mention I didn't want you to butt in. I done this because you are the reason I now get lawyer jokes.
Process over perception every day of the week. I am with you. I am not arguing the rules are wrong or stewards handled it wrongly, I am saying its just an unfortunate situation for racing, whereas it shines harness racing in a positive light to Joe Blow. It might be unfairly so at racings expense but its happened and nothing can change that, not you not I and certainty not this forum for the 98,000 that went to Flemington on Saturday.

[Thevoiceofreason]

"I did make mention I didn't want you to butt in"

Gee Brendan it is tuff luck you did not want to read my opinion but while ever this is a public forum and I am not barred I will make comment on any post I wish.

Perhaps you should get over yourself.

This will be my last post on this issue because its now getting boring to everybody.

[broncobrad]

On the contrary Bill, I think it has been an interesting thread for forum readers.

Brendan, I totally get what you on about and agree 90% (just to be different). It is about perception for Joe Blow. If the general public were aware of the leaps and bounds the sport has made in toughening up penaltys (in general,) in the wake of the doping and bribe scandal, one would reasonably believe the new found cleaner image of our sport would translate to more bums on seats. I think that is going to take a bit longer to eventuate. For example if a TV program with some clout was to do an in-depth investigation on how the sport in NSW has accepted its responsibility to turn itself around and present a product that is as clean as is humanly possible and get that message out to an audience that has previously only ever known the game to stink to high heaven, maybe, just maybe we might see more numbers through the turnstiles. Lets face it, if there is more confidence in the sport, everyone benefits right the way back to the breeders who might start seeing an improvement in yearling $$$'s.

I think its all about perception and until our sport is perceived as something different to what it is known for it will remain just the little cottage industry it is, supported by industry participants and close friends with a genuine fondness for harness and propped up by the blind punters that can't tell the difference between a dog and a horse.

For the simple reason that harness does not enjoy the exposure that horse racing does, we will always be a long second to it, but to be fighting the dogs off for that spot is hardly a ringing endorsement for us. So everytime our sport can hold a light to its virtues in regard to dealing with untoward matters it should. Unfortunately it rarely gets reported in the general media.

[broncobrad]

Painiting out for 6 months for a $100 bet. Olly had 10k on. Sounds fair.

Yeah the double standards just gets better. If you believe this report.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8559657

[Thevoiceofreason]

Yeah the double standards just gets better. If you believe this report.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8559657

I am happy to be corrected but my recollection is the Jackson Painting inquiry started in July and he was allowed to continue to compete until he was convicted in September .... seems like an exact same standard to me... but if you can explain the double standard please feel free to do so.

[aussiebreno]

I am happy to be corrected but my recollection is the Jackson Painting inquiry started in July and he was allowed to continue to compete until he was convicted in September .... seems like an exact same standard to me... but if you can explain the double standard please feel free to do so.

VOR,

Haven't heard much about this, too busy complaining Ryan Moores ride and ridiculous betting %s at Griffith, but apparently a QLD trainer was nabbed down in Melbourne today and got caught red handed. Stewards asked to search his car. He denied them access for personal reasons.
What is the ruling there. Are stewards allowed to freely search cars? Possibly allowed with permission, possibly allowed even if the trainer denies them access?

[broncobrad]

Laughing out EXTREMELY loudly, I just noticed Brendans 'current' location.

Bill, back in the game so soon, talk about an Indian giver. Certain it said above that your last post on this issue had been made. Welcome back, I have missed you.

The double standards relates (from memory) to Jackson placing approx 5 bets (including multiple combination bets) on races he was competing in. Most of those bets were 'insignificant' in comparison to Ollies, but the double standard is patently obvious, in most of the bets he was betting on the horse he was driving, unlike Oliver who backed the winner of the race while he rode the second horse.

More troubling here is if the police were aware of the bet that Oliver has allegedly admitted to placing, why weren't charges laid, why didn't stewards take action, where was the new racing integrity mob of Victoria in all of this, why hasn't the Minister for Racing acted? On Melbournes day of days, how can the nations most famous race include a jockey that has allegedly admitted such a transgression occurring, be afforded the opportunity to ride and not only just ride but be put on board one of the favourites. From the limited media I have seen on this story today (for obvious reasons), might I direct you to catch up with the NSW 7.30 Report on the ABC tonight that will show some leading media personalitys embarrassed by and for Racing Victorias disgraceful blind eye, sweep it under the carpet attitude.

If only the story hadn't broken before the Cup, they may have escaped unharmed, but in reality its been a dirty great big black eye sustained by our southern cousins, thinking the story would have been lost to the masses, drowned out by the glitz and glam of the day. No, they f***** up, and most of us didn't miss it, nor will any of the symantics change our PERCEPTION of what has indeed happened. A cover up has been exposed. We all know that further down the road a lot more is going to come to light on this very complicated affair, but I will bet my arse at the end of the day, someone's reputation is going to be sullied, someone will be stood down or lose their job, and I am not talking about jockeys, trainers or bookies. I am talking about those who are charged to run the sport and whose responsibility it is to protect some of us mug punters. Those who are paid to ensure that dubious or corrupt actions are eliminated as they surface, not allow to let slide and become run of the mill normal behaviour.

[broncobrad]

Have provided the 730 Report link for you http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/

Perception v Rules They are both as important as each other, but its sort of weird how they can work against each other at the same time.

[Thevoiceofreason]

Laughing out EXTREMELY loudly, I just noticed Brendans 'current' location.

Bill, back in the game so soon, talk about an Indian giver. Certain it said above that your last post on this issue had been made. Welcome back, I have missed you.

The double standards relates (from memory) to Jackson placing approx 5 bets (including multiple combination bets) on races he was competing in. Most of those bets were 'insignificant' in comparison to Ollies, but the double standard is patently obvious, in most of the bets he was betting on the horse he was driving, unlike Oliver who backed the winner of the race while he rode the second horse.

More troubling here is if the police were aware of the bet that Oliver has allegedly admitted to placing, why weren't charges laid, why didn't stewards take action, where was the new racing integrity mob of Victoria in all of this, why hasn't the Minister for Racing acted? On Melbournes day of days, how can the nations most famous race include a jockey that has allegedly admitted such a transgression occurring, be afforded the opportunity to ride and not only just ride but be put on board one of the favourites. From the limited media I have seen on this story today (for obvious reasons), might I direct you to catch up with the NSW 7.30 Report on the ABC tonight that will show some leading media personalitys embarrassed by and for Racing Victorias disgraceful blind eye, sweep it under the carpet attitude.

If only the story hadn't broken before the Cup, they may have escaped unharmed, but in reality its been a dirty great big black eye sustained by our southern cousins, thinking the story would have been lost to the masses, drowned out by the glitz and glam of the day. No, they f***** up, and most of us didn't miss it, nor will any of the symantics change our PERCEPTION of what has indeed happened. A cover up has been exposed. We all know that further down the road a lot more is going to come to light on this very complicated affair, but I will bet my arse at the end of the day, someone's reputation is going to be sullied, someone will be stood down or lose their job, and I am not talking about jockeys, trainers or bookies. I am talking about those who are charged to run the sport and whose responsibility it is to protect some of us mug punters. Those who are paid to ensure that dubious or corrupt actions are eliminated as they surface, not allow to let slide and become run of the mill normal behaviour.

Sorry Brad I still do not see the double standard this story on Oliver broke a few weeks back RVL stewards said they were investigating no stand down available to them so the investigation continues.

Painting investigation started in July finished in September in the time of the investigation no stand down ordered.

I am sorry but to me that looks completely consistent. with no double standard.