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Thread: Lance Armstrong

  1. #1
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Lance Armstrong

    See the international cycling body has wiped Lance's 7 Tour de France victories from the records.....another grubby cheat who accepted all the accolades whilst cheating his fellow competitors...people who were no doubt busting a gut to try and beat him fair and square and being thrown into self doubt because this grub was unbeatable with his spineless tactics.
    A lesson to the worshippers of false idols everywhere.

    http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/...022-281uc.html

  2. #2
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    Although I touched on Lances impending fall from grace in another thread Dan, I was a bit surprised no-one really wanted to add their two bobs worth. Its really not a matter of banging our chests, climbing to the top of the hill and yelling TOLD YOU SO. The sobering fact is that it just leaves you feeling gutted. The fact that the UCI chose not to take any action all the way back to 1999, when they could have, leaves you thinking why didn't they and only if they did. Through their inaction they only fostered an environment that encouraged drug taking and blood doping by those that could almost compete on their merits but chose to go down the road of cheating to reach their goal. The UCI has a lot to answer for. It happened a long time ago but sports administrators of today have been given a free tip as to how the majority of the general public feel about drugs in sport. All drug cheats are just as culpible, just as guilty as Armstrong. A case of no winners, almost everyone along the way has lost in some form or another, all the way down to the little kids who adored him. No matter what happens, Armstrong will never admit guilt, but that doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter what he thinks or says anymore.

    Will there ever be a competition of any kind that will not be tainted by someone who will try to gain an unfair advantage over their fellow competitors by using performancing enhancing drugs? Not in my lifetime, thats for sure. Maybe in the future they could hold the' clean and dirty olympics', the 'clean and dirty Tour De France', the 'cleanharness races' and 'dirtyharness races' ... you know, a free for all open to all competition who can use whatever means available to win. Got a fair idea what punters would go for in the end. And everybody gets what they want in the end.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Punters want to be on Lance Armstrong...while participants don't wish to be racing againt him. Therein lies the difference mate. The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly. The battle against drugs in Racing is an almost solely Participant driven vehicle.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple V View Post
    Punters want to be on Lance Armstrong...while participants don't wish to be racing againt him. Therein lies the difference mate. The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly. The battle against drugs in Racing is an almost solely Participant driven vehicle.
    Its hard to disagree with your observation about punters wanting to be on the Lance Armstrongs of the world to make a quid. Jaimie, there are plenty who would agree with you in regard to the same product being supplied week in/week out. Problem is after a while you will eventually run out of those poor suffering clapped out critters with their arses dragging along the ground while every different formulation of rocket fuel overides their brains and undermines their bodys. Atleast they could rightly revert back to being called "The Red Hots"!!!

    I would prefer to think there are some punters out there with enough moral fibre though, to know the difference between right and wrong, and appreciate the fact that the horse, just the horse and only the horse is brought to the track to compete on just as equal a footing as is possible. I am certain there is an overwhelming majority of owners that care enough about their horses not to go down the road less travelled.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple V View Post
    Punters want to be on Lance Armstrong...while participants don't wish to be racing againt him. Therein lies the difference mate. The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly. The battle against drugs in Racing is an almost solely Participant driven vehicle.
    The punters want to be on a certainty Jamie, and preferably at good odds!

    Its an unfortunate truth that the punters are gunna lose their money at the end of the day, the odds are stacked against them. 86% of funds returned to the punter!!!

    And it is also a fact that people tend to respond more emotionally rather than more rationally after they done their hard earned.

    So I would like to think we should not rely on the punters for their guidance on what should be done about the abuse of horses through drugs in our sport.

    It is a fact that our game relies on the confidence of punters in the integrity and consisitency of the racing product, but to say /infer they want them lit up like a chritsmas tree every time they go around is just bullshit mate.

    The battle against performance enhancing drugs is about creating a level playing field, not one that gives an advantage to either punters or participants so it's hard to agree that it's being driven by participants alone.

    we live in the land of "a fair go", one of the most egalitarian societies in the world!

    How about we accept a fair go for what it is?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Not what I said at all Dan. You've completely misunderstood the intention/thrust of what I posted there.
    When I wrote [The Punters don't give two to the valley if every horse in the race is lit up like the Christmas Tree in Martin Place...just so long as they're lit up each & every time they step out and can be handicapped accordingly.]
    I was alluding to the fact that by & large the Punters don't care what any given horse is racing on... or otherwise, is not racing on.
    What pisses the Punters off more than anything are those inexplicable form reversals which for the purposes of Handicapping render absolutely useless published/exposed form...the old 'one week a Camel (sans assistance) next week a Gorilla (with assistance) routine.

    This of course then ties directly into the wider issue of the rivers of gold which flow 24/7 to various State Government coffers by way of wagering taxation and the fact that they will protect that revenue flow AT ALL COSTS.
    Thus there will ALWAYS be a much bigger, more strident, a more extensive reaction & a much heavier resultant punishment for anything which does or could potentially result in a lowering of confidence in the wagering process.
    HRNSW are right in the middle of such an investigation as we all know.
    If you ever doubt the overall Punter focus of Industry Administration & those further up the tree the Dept. & the State Government of the day then maybe you could explain the need for the various absurd rules we have in play these days...the Change Of Tactics rule & public announcements to that effect, the ridiculous Minimum Sectionals, Drivers not talking whilst on track etc. No doubt there are numerous others, on and on the window dressing for appearances only rules go...none of which are of any benefit whatsoever to the Participants.
    What we have in place is what I have said before on this Forum is the case.
    If that which serve the best interests of the Participants does not contradict the best interests of the Punters, then all's well and good...look at how we're looking after the Participants our Desk Pilot friends will bleat...BUT if that which serves the best interests of Participants directly contradicts that which serves the best interests of the Punters...guess who's interests carry the day?
    Guess who gets it in the clacker with a baseball bat with a 4 inch nail punched through it and gues who gets it EVERY TIME?
    Call me a cynic if you must but I wonder, can you or anyone else name even one instance where the Punt was placed as secondary consideration to the interests of Industry Participants?

    I gave it a lot of thought. I can't.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Stallion Danno is a jewel in the rough
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    Dear Jamie,
    as usual you pick one line of a contribution and make what you can of it, ho f...ing hum. the general thrust of the original post was that Lance Armstrong, a VERY successful cheat has been thrown out of his sport/industry because the people running that sport internationally have enough evidence to say to a "legend"... "rack off we dont want anything to do with you anymore".

    But I'm sorry Jamie for being so inadequate once again to completely misunderstand the intention/thrust that YOU had posted.

    Did you agree or not with Lance Armstrong's expulsion from his sport?

    do you agree or not that punters would like to be on a certainty at juicy odds?

    do you agree or not people react emotionally rather that rationally when they have "done they're dough"?

    Do you honestly, really think that the rules of our game are shaped purely to maximise government returns? Are you that mercenary/free market orientated to think there is absolutely no moral fibre whatsoever in our political system?

    Our judicial system is designed to deliver fair outcomes....sometimes it gets it right sometimes it doesn't, thats life! because as clever as we are we cannot predict the future and every different situation/scenario.

    It's very easy to throw crap at others for their mistakes or inadequacies, and you are very good at that.

    Cheers,
    Dan

  8. #8
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Dear Jamie,
    as usual you pick one line of a contribution and make what you can of it, ho f...ing hum. the general thrust of the original post was that Lance Armstrong, a VERY successful cheat has been thrown out of his sport/industry because the people running that sport internationally have enough evidence to say to a "legend"... "rack off we dont want anything to do with you anymore".

    But I'm sorry Jamie for being so inadequate once again to completely misunderstand the intention/thrust that YOU had posted.

    Did you agree or not with Lance Armstrong's expulsion from his sport?

    do you agree or not that punters would like to be on a certainty at juicy odds?

    do you agree or not people react emotionally rather that rationally when they have "done they're dough"?

    Do you honestly, really think that the rules of our game are shaped purely to maximise government returns? Are you that mercenary/free market orientated to think there is absolutely no moral fibre whatsoever in our political system?

    Our judicial system is designed to deliver fair outcomes....sometimes it gets it right sometimes it doesn't, thats life! because as clever as we are we cannot predict the future and every different situation/scenario.

    It's very easy to throw crap at others for their mistakes or inadequacies, and you are very good at that.

    Cheers,
    Dan
    WTF????????? Go stick it in your arse Dan...sideways. Talk about a reactionary bullshit artist. Someone delete my account...I'm sick to death of this rubbish.
    Admin...get rid of it now. Kick me to the kirb...please.

  9. #9
    mark diegutis
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    [QUOTE=Triple V ]

    If that which serve the best interests of the Participants does not contradict the best interests of the Punters, then all's well and good...


    Hi Dan . Hi Jaimie . I think your both right in different ways . I picked out a small quote from you Jaimie which really must be commented on . Your talking about punters and participants as though they were 2 different entities . This is exactly where harness racing differs so vastly from the other 2 codes . The participants and their associates , freinds , neighbours and workmates ARE the punters . Nearly every harness racing punter has a direct connection to the industry . This is supported by the fact that TAB turnover is dropping off as participants leave . The use of these drugs etc is , certainly , making racing in our state so unballanced that more and more will be forced out . Its happening NOW . The sport is being destroyed by the greedy . Even though they offer the highest prizemoney Menangle struggle to fill fields through the week . No one wants to go there . I predict that the sales will be an absolute disaster this year and there is no sighn that our demise is even slowing down . I think that a decision made in November will have a huge impact on many participants futures in this sport .

  10. #10
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year broncobrad has a spectacular aura about
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    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" (Edmund Bourke)

    If the USADA had taken the same course as the UCI then evil would have indeed triumphed. Some of you might think that a bit too dramatic, but what the USADA has done is highlighted the shortcomings of an administration that meekly stood back and allowed this to taint one of the greatest sporting events of all time. It unspokenly condoned cheating by standing by and doing SFA. A timely reminder for the minders of harness racing to ensure they can do all within their means to ensure the groundwork that has been layed down in the last couple of years continues to go forward.

    http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8554896

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