Let's try something different.

[2minuteman]

What is one of the most annoying features of harness racing? With some exceptions,(last nights Truer as an example),it is boredom.
Sort out the field positions before the first turn,get out the pipe and teapot until the home turn and try to gather in leaders that have been ambling along at their leisure.
Distance points and dollars aside, consider this for ordinary meetings,
Mile races: First to the winning post first time,$500.
First to the 400 mark,$1000.

or, First to the winning post first time,$500.
First to the 600 mark,$500.
Coming from further back than fifth (min 8 strs) at the turn,$500.

Longer races,
First to the first turn,$500.
First to the mile peg,$500.
First to the 600 mark,$500.
Coming from further back than fifth (min 8 strs) at the turn,$1000.
Discuss.

[Danno]

G'day Ron,
I reckon you're spot on about our racing being boring sometimes, with all the knowledge available to the punters ( and opposition) about gate speed, winning barrier draw stats at each venue,form which includes where each horse was in the run at every 400 metre peg at all recent starts, slow sectional rules, a greater percentage of races over shorter distances, a lower number of trainers with horses in their yards, all mobile starts................................the list goes on mate, we are striving to placate the punters with better and more consistant information and some of that is great, but some of it makes our racing more predictable which, inturn makes it,

a) more boring.

b)more predictable.

c) as a result of a) and b) more short favourites and hence smaller pools.


I have been saying this for thirty f...ing years! and guess what! I must be an idiot because no one has heard it and our game keeps on shrinking, year after year after bloody year.

[Mitch]

My comments here will no doubt be met with plenty of criticism but I am willing to take the heat! The biggest issue in harness racing is one of the purest features that has defined the sport until this point. For the sport to re-establish itself it must make some serious decisions to delineate between hobbyist non professional trainers & drivers & professional trainers and drivers.

I am not suggesting that we get rid of the hobbyists, I am however in support of a licensing & race programming model that provides exclusivity for both and some opportunity for both to co-participate at certain events. I would investigate the viability of making non tab events exclusive to hobbyists and country meetings open to all trainers and a minimum graded driver. Metro meetings should be open to professional drivers only (all trainers). I would also make the licensing process more stringent particularly for the various driver classes.

Secondly the governing bodies in each state need to make the call on closing down venues which no longer meet the required standard. A prime example of this is Bankstown in NSW. I attended a Monday meeting there a couple of weeks ago and walked away questioning a lot of things. Furthermore a lot of work needs to be done on venue management, in particular restricted access to race day stalls. At Bankstown it was come and go as you please for anyone????

There is a lot more detail that goes with my two suggestions above.

Given that the future of the sport relies heavily on wagering, making decisions that entice the punter to invest more should be prioritised. The above 2 points are a good place to start in my opinion.

[mary]

My comments here will no doubt be met with plenty of criticism but I am willing to take the heat! The biggest issue in harness racing is one of the purest features that has defined the sport until this point. For the sport to re-establish itself it must make some serious decisions to delineate between hobbyist non professional trainers & drivers & professional trainers and drivers.

I am not suggesting that we get rid of the hobbyists, I am however in support of a licensing & race programming model that provides exclusivity for both and some opportunity for both to co-participate at certain events. I would investigate the viability of making non tab events exclusive to hobbyists and country meetings open to all trainers and a minimum graded driver. Metro meetings should be open to professional drivers only (all trainers). I would also make the licensing process more stringent particularly for the various driver classes.

Secondly the governing bodies in each state need to make the call on closing down venues which no longer meet the required standard. A prime example of this is Bankstown in NSW. I attended a Monday meeting there a couple of weeks ago and walked away questioning a lot of things. Furthermore a lot of work needs to be done on venue management, in particular restricted access to race day stalls. At Bankstown it was come and go as you please for anyone????

There is a lot more detail that goes with my two suggestions above.

Given that the future of the sport relies heavily on wagering, making decisions that entice the punter to invest more should be prioritised. The above 2 points are a good place to start in my opinion.

Mitch.
The fact that harness racing is first & foremost a family sport will never allow for the hobby persons not to drive their own horses.
In saying that I watch in disbelief at the way a huge amount of horses are driven by them & cringe. I also wonder how they got a licence in the first place. Scary stuff!
Most don't give a bugger about other peoples horses & do not care about taking horses out....they get 21 days , big woop, means nothing. Meanwhile the poor bugger whos horse has been taken out gets 12mths in the paddock with a bowed tendion. I had one who came down years ago ( died 2 days later) by an incompetent driver & that person still can not drive!!!
I agree that Menangle should have the professional drivers drive there on Metro nights & all big $ races elsewhere.
Agree re Bankstown too.

I went to Maitland years ago & watched the drivers invitation races....brillant stuff, they drove within inches of each other without one bit of interference. Top driving.

But also one has to be realistic & honestly where is this sport headed?????
How many professionals can make a living in this game???
4 maybe 5, thats about it. If that.
Stats....last year
Mccarthys.......$4,624,971.00 (metro trainer)
Fitzpatrick.......$1,208,515.00 (metro trainer)
Turnbull..........$864,369.00 (Bathurst way)
Russo..............$742,909.00 (Bathurst way)
Tritton ............$504,573.99 (newcastle way)

Most others eating pain off the walls!

This season so far.
Mccarthy.....$1,031,208.00
Turnbull.......$186,328.00
Tritton........$129,088.00
Neil Day......$98,000.00

The rest so far ...eating paint off the walls!
These stats ARE a huge concern to harness racing. IMO.

[aussiebreno]

Mitch.
The fact that harness racing is first & foremost a family sport will never allow for the hobby persons not to drive their own horses.
In saying that I watch in disbelief at the way a huge amount of horses are driven by them & cringe. I also wonder how they got a licence in the first place. Scary stuff!
Most don't give a bugger about other peoples horses & do not care about taking horses out....they get 21 days , big woop, means nothing. Meanwhile the poor bugger whos horse has been taken out gets 12mths in the paddock with a bowed tendion. I had one who came down years ago ( died 2 days later) by an incompetent driver & that person still can not drive!!!
I agree that Menangle should have the professional drivers drive there on Metro nights & all big $ races elsewhere.
Agree re Bankstown too.

I went to Maitland years ago & watched the drivers invitation races....brillant stuff, they drove within inches of each other without one bit of interference. Top driving.

But also one has to be realistic & honestly where is this sport headed?????
How many professionals can make a living in this game???
4 maybe 5, thats about it. If that.
Stats....last year
Mccarthys.......$4,624,971.00 (metro trainer)
Fitzpatrick.......$1,208,515.00 (metro trainer)
Turnbull..........$864,369.00 (Bathurst way)
Russo..............$742,909.00 (Bathurst way)
Tritton ............$504,573.99 (newcastle way)

Most others eating pain off the walls!

This season so far.
Mccarthy.....$1,031,208.00
Turnbull.......$186,328.00
Tritton........$129,088.00
Neil Day......$98,000.00

The rest so far ...eating paint off the walls!
These stats ARE a huge concern to harness racing. IMO.

I'd have thought trainers would also have a vast amount of trainers fees though.

[mary]

I'd have thought trainers would also have a vast amount of trainers fees though.

Most trainers that I have spoken too in the Sydney/Newcastle areas, have lost a large percentage of their horses to elsewhere or their owners are downsizing.
Also you wouldn't believe how many trainers are forced to do deals to attract horses to their stables & these deals include zero training fees.
These owners have no intention of replacing horses.
A lot of trainers are on the cusp of collapse but trying to hang in there.
Its a tough game for many trainers!

[Mitch]

I'd have thought trainers would also have a vast amount of trainers fees though.

If they are charging full tote they only get between $30-$40 a day and a lot end up training on % share of prize money. This makes it tough if you're not winning a lot of races.

Even the most successful of harness trainers, like the McCarthys, wouldn't make anywhere near as much money as some middle of the rung gallops trainer. It doesn't seem fair!

[aussiebreno]

Yeah, I definetly wasn't saying trainers have it easy, just pointing out something. Everyone involved in the harness game could certaintly use some help!

[mary]

On the vine is the story that 4 Mccarthys will be training over 100 horses by the end of 2013.

[Danno]

[

QUOTE=Mitch;24132]If they are charging full tote they only get between $30-$40 a day and a lot end up training on % share of prize money. This makes it tough if you're not winning a lot of races.

Even the most successful of harness trainers, like the McCarthys, wouldn't make anywhere near as much money as some middle of the rung gallops trainer. It doesn't seem fair![/QUOTE]

"Doesn't seem fair" is pretty much my opinion as well Mitch, as you can see from other peoples posts, the number of trainers, ( professional or otherwise) in the game are dwindling all the time, the number of owners paying up for horses are also dwindling, the prices at our yearling sales have been gut wrenching for the people who breed to sell.........and I will continue to bang on that we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot with our "falling over ourselves " approach to making our product more appealing to the betting public.

This game had it's uniqueness once, and yes it was a few years ago, but it wasn't in the "old days" either, it was before we allowed the loud minority ( they being our commercial breeders) to influence our prizemoney distribution to encourage the chasing of the "big bucks" for 2YO racing..................why would commercial breeders do this? they would tell you that the big money for 2YO racing encourages new owners into the sport, but the truth is very few 2YO's "make the grade" as 2yo's, approximately 6% across the board, when all up around winners to foals regardless of age are about 19%....lets think about that for a moment 6% verus 19%.. so in one hand you are trying to lure new owners into our game on wildly false expectations, and coupled with that there are a great number of babies getting cooked because of the expectation of a quick return on investment, and many new owners are going out the back door because the industry as a whole has "over promised and under delivered"

So mate in reference to original point of your post, do you really think our game is at a point where we can confidently promote " exclusiveness" at the expense of inclusiveness??

cheers,
Dan