Mitch I guess your superior horses will start favourite in every race then, and I hope you have the house on for the sake of harness racing.Originally Posted by Mitch
Good to see you can peer around your blockeyes and see the big picture in my post (sic)
Hi Dot,
I have already said I agree with your suggestion for a 1000m track. I also support barrier configs of 12 with a second row instead of 10 off the front.
I haven't seen any of the plans for Bathurst so I wont comment on that.
I have heard many different rumours re Menangle and the proposed re-zoning & town centre development. I don't know enough about it so wont comment further...
Feel free to fill me in on your big picture? I didn't pick up on it.
Mitch.
Dot, the plans for the rezoning and development of Menangle Park will be put on display this week or next, and will be on display for comment till the end of January 2013. After this date submissions will be considered prior to gazettal. John was right re 4000 houses for Menangle Park, but not by 2013.
Thanks Daryl, I guess that makes John 50% right, still he can improve to 75% if there are 8000 new houses by 2018 which he also said. Does the plan include a timetable for the development, or is that subject to the whims of market demand? Curious then that the club off loaded a considerable number of their poker machine licenses if a population explosion is imminent in MP. Realisticly how long before these new residents are likely to have the disposable discretionary income to significantly contribute to harness racing?
Mitch my big picture is that the future of harness racing in NSW is far from assured, and we have a limited time whilst we have funds available to put it in a position where we are assured. The return from the moneys invested from HP appear to be around 6 million dollars or around 6%, setting aside the % required to add to the capital to balance out inflation doesn't leave terribly much to service the facility or prizemoney promised.
The TAB distribution whilst currently guaranteed by law is far from safe. Anyone remember VOR chastising me for suggesting that it was? Politicians make laws and politicians change them. The minister has said he won't intervene, anyone remember a certain red headed politician saying there wont be a carbon tax under the government I lead? The greyhound people are hard at work to have the intracode agreement changed to a commercial agreement that distributes returns comensurate with the proportion generated. Does anyone really thing that they won't in time succeed? How long do we think it will take? And what does that do for our income then?
The race fields legislation requires the corporate bookies to pay a fee for the use of our "product", it doesn't require them however to use our product. Put simply if we don't produce a product that suits their business they aren't obligated to use it and can offer markets on other products instead. And what does that do to our income?
So Mitch I can see a time when the cash that is around now drys up, or at least significantly reduces, if we haven't structured our facilities around maximising income streams both for individual clubs from better use of their premises and from wagering from putting on a better product. Moving out of towns allows bigger tracks but is that the answer? If so why isn't Bathurst going to be 1400m too? And a track in the riverina, and up north the same? At least giving the participants an opportunity to hone their skills on a level playing field before heading to Menangle. And the punters a chance to marry up the form.
Sure we need change and twenty twenty cricket is often put up as the example to be followed. But whilst cricket evolved to allow a different form of the game, first 50/50 now T/20 they didn't move the game away from the people. They aren't playing their feature games in the suburbs. Maybe there is something in that for us? Look at harness racing in South Australia, is there anyone who doesn't think it is pretty much a basket case? And when did the rot set in, when they moved out of town to Globe Derby Park. And Melton their turnover and attendances have also dropped off since they moved out of Moonee Valley. And Menangle?
Is there a successful harness racing venue anywhere in the world that has achieved long term gains by moving away from the people? The Meadowlands is central to 5 million people, only 10 miles from Grand Central Station New York City, but its operator Jeff Gural has said on the public record it can not survive without revenue from slot machines. The losses from the Meadowlands were around 9 million dollars last year. Can Menangle some 68k from the Sy CBD, with a projected population of 16,000 adults in the near vicinity survive?
As Brad said earlier there has to be a balance somewhere. Do I know exactly what that is then no, but I'm quite certain we haven't found it yet.
Last edited by dizzy; 12-13-2012 at 09:43 PM.
Hi Dot,
Well said!
The correlation re location of new tracks and reduction in participation is inconclusive but it certainly impacts on crowd attendance which in turn probably reduces wagering investment. Although that being said I think we have to accept that with technology and the ease of placing a bet via a mobile device we may need to think of other ways to interact with punters and get them to invest more from the couch, bar, park.. Wherever they may be.
My sample of 1 (me) actually punts more when I am at home with access to multiple form sources, replays, online betting software etc. then when I go to the races where I spend too much time talking to people and admiring the horse flesh!
You have made some very good points in your post and I agree that the current hierarchy have it all to do in regards to protecting the money made from the sale of HP and race fields legislation. This is somewhat cliche but all states in harness racing just need to continue to focus on getting the basics right - that in itself is a big enough challenge for some states.
Your meadowlands example is an interesting one, right next to meadowlands is MetLife Stadium & the IZOD center - neither of those venue suffer from attendance declines (trust me I was there in October). So there has to be more to it right?
Personally I think it's a combination of location, integrity, competition, poor strategy and ignorance that has put harness racing in the position it is in today.
Whilst there are still many challenges that lie ahead l am encouraged by the news that the Interdom & Chariots will be on free to air. I would think dependant on its success a tentative deal has already been done to show the Miracle Mile??? I also think the current crop of 4yos & 5yos give us a great platform to showcase the sport over the coming years with some classic grand circuit racing.
Anyway good talk Dot, what's your tip for the Vic Cup?
If the power's that be opened a free to air tv channel to cater for harness racing only Aus wide i think it would draw more punter's and maybe more participants to our sport in the long run as not everyone can afford to have Pay tv in their homes.
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
Gee mate, Ten is going broke I'm not sure how a dedicated harness station would go.
Hi Mitch
I think the reduction in crowd attendance not only impacts on wagering but on participation levels in a hands on capacity as trainer/driver or owner as well. Whilst its certainly true that we are very much a screen based medium these days particularly for punters and as you say they may actually wager more in this environment it is important that we continue to court owners and other hands on involvment as well. With your owners hat on Mitch is punting and what you experience at home enough to continue your investment as an owner or is it the horse flesh and people that you experience first hand at the track that fuels your interest as an owner. Certainly there has to be a balance between the two, or better yet a synergy that maximises the outcomes for harness racing from both.
No doubt there have been multiple events that have contributed to harness racings decline inpopularity but IMO the major one has been our inability to expand our market. when the going got tough at Harold Park and we couldn't attract enough anymore of the existing market rather then find new markets for our sport we sold out and moved away, albeit with a hefty sum in the bank.
Whilst protecting the money in the short term is an obvious strategy the question in my mind is, is this the best strategy in the long term or should we be using the money in another way to ensure a viable long term future for harness racing?
The NSW state government has just released its Chins Tourist Strategy 2012-20, and IMO it makes very interesting reading for any supporter of harness racing. Chinese visitors are forecast to contribute $17.6 billion to the NSW economy by 2020. In 2020 the forecast is for over 620,000 Chinese visitors to visit NSW contributing $2.1billion dollars over 19.6 million visitor nights. And what does Destination NSW say the Chinese Visitors want? A unique experience, gambling and an opportunity to spend their money. And how is harness racing currently positioned to take advantage of this? Well not at all if it's intended that the only tracks in Sydney (loosely speaking) will be Menangle and possibly Penrith, both right at Sydneys extremities or beyond.
Doesn't harness racing fit perfectly that description of a unique experience, particularly on a track fdesigned to enhance the visual specatacle as well as fair racing? And gambling, we have gambling opportunities and even more so if a new track could be located with a significant gaming venue. And spending money, how about limousine transfers, fine dining and fashions on the field, along with opportunities for our guests to buy or bid for the opportunity to be an "owner" for the night, all of which could be pre booked and paid for before they arrive. Not to mention all the sundry merchandising and photo opportunities. And the Chinesee are looking for "soft adventure" activities too, sounds like a double seater sullky or mobile barrier ride to me.
So how do we get on board? Well take a look at the Minister resposible for ensuring the forecasts in the strategy are met, its our Minister, the Minister for, amongst othr things, Racing, the Honourable George Souris. So why wouldn't he and the government move to help us if we could show them that harness racing is an ideal activity to help then achieve and perhaps even exceed their forecasts of revenue from Chinese tourists.
With the governments help maybe it is still possible to establish a harness racing venue at Sydney Olympic Park. The P5 parking lot is mainly used for truck and float parking during the show and underutilised the rest of the year. An elevated track like we had at Harold Park along with underground parking in an entertainment/gaming complex would pretty much maintain the status quo for parking. And we would be in the middle of the city with relatively easy acess for participants and visitors alike. Perhaps we would need a corporate partner as well. With some serious capital we could suspend the track over the brick pit (it cant be built on but perhaps it could be built over) and what an out of this world racing experience that would be!
OK so maybe we need to set our sights a little lower. Fairfield whilst not as convieniant to the city is already under our industry's control (sort of) but we would need support from both the government and council to utilise it to it fullest. And it comes with plenty of real estate that may allow for additionall developments, a large Asian speaking population and a golf course next door, another activity Destination NSW says is high on the Chinese visitors agenda.
And may be there are other options, the Shell refinery near Parramatta is closings so perhaps there is a suitable site there. Parramattas population is also forecast to grow rapidly in the next few years and whilst we would be targeting the Chinese it doesn't have to be to the exclusion of the locals or other visitors.
So what about Menangle I hear people say? All the money we have spent out there or have we? The minimum sale price for Harold Park was to be $150million but a sale price of $187million was realised so taking away the capital spent at Menangle and the amount repaid to HRNSW we still have around the amount we would have if only the minimum price had been achieved. So surely there must still be some room for further capital expenditure? And what do we do with Menangle? Well we if we have an assured future then we will need a training centre and the carnival of cups concept has been a winner for us so Menangle could be used regularly to stage Cof C type meetings. And if we weere looking to increase our available capital how about a deal with Racing NSW to use Menangle as a joint racing/training/pretraining facility? The 1400m track is converted to a synthetic gallops track and a new harness track built inside for training. As John Dumesny said sometime ago we could scrape the top of the synthetic 1400m track and use it for harness racing, and with all the infrastructure in place Racing NSW could transfer gallops meetings there in the event of a possible wash out of a grass track in prolonged rain. After all whilst the intracode agreement remains in place the loss of a gallops meeting hurts our bottomline as well.
So what is my Christmas wish? That Rex and John and Sam and their respective boards would read over the China Tourist Strategy 2012-20 during Christmas and see the possibilities in it for harness racing. And then in the new year open a dialogue with Sandra Chipchase the CEO of Destination NSW and the Minister or his representatives and get them also to see the opportunities for harness racing in their strategy. And then before all else commision a feasibility study to find out for sure if the dawn of the "Asian Century" can ensure a long term future for harness racing in NSW
Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to all.
WELL SAID Dot.But,we had the chance to go to Homebush but alas we stayed at HP, it was sold now we go to Menangle, it is that far out no-one goes because of the distance,Fairfield was mooted to be upgraded but was closed for racing except for COC day's,it is being hinted that there be less country meeting's. I don't think HRNSW want to try and improve our sport sometimes with the ideas they come up with it seem's all they worry about is Menangle. When the Miracle Mile wasn't able to be run at MP why didn't they run it at Newcastle, good enough for Inter Heat so why not the MM ? Dot you shouldn't think forward like that you might get a bad name of being a dreamer.But like you we can only hope and dream.
And a Merry Christmas and New Year to yourself as well Dot.
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
I know that we must keep trying to improve our sport, but I don't think we are going as bad as a lot of people in the industry think. My opinion is based on country meetings, we now have a lot more meetings to race at with better prize money than ever before. Meetings used to close down for the winter months so we had to put the horses out to spell, you could not be professional under those conditions. Now we have one or two meetings every week, one with min.$5000 and the other $3000 and occasionally $1500 but it at least gives you a chance to make a living from the sport. This week at Young min. $6000 with a couple of races $7000, then we have the country heats of $10000 with a $22000 final at Menangle. As for new people coming into the sport I think that there are plenty of pub punters who are willing to form syndicates and buy a pacer as they are a lot cheaper than a racehorse to get into. As for young people coming into the sport have a look at your states top twenty trainers and I think you will be surprised to see some names that are new to the sport and some trainers under 40 years old. I know that we must keep thinking ahead to keep our sport in the market place and continue to seek new ideas, Dot has had the thinking cap on and came up with a lot of concepts to give some thought to, perhaps we should have packages for all tourist.
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