Reply With QuoteGreg, was not inferring that Barry Lew administered the drug, just using it as a generalisation. In fact haven't mentioned the trainer at all in my posts.Originally Posted by Greg Hando
[VVV] That's the problem right there Brad. In a nutshell. The implications of the rules as they stand are absolutely absurd.
These are high performance horses that from time to time will need to be treated with a very wide range of therapeutic substances, substances which for the most part there are currently no thresholds in place.
Furthermore said rules remain in place not because it is a best practice style approach but rather because of the severe shortcomings in the current testing regime.
The fact that we as an Industry continue to test for & hang Trainers on the basis of minute non pharmacologically active levels of the metabolites of parent drugs in urine samples instead of testing for the actual presence of & getting a definitive level on parent drugs themselves in blood samples (thereby being in an infinitely more informed position insofar as determining an either pharmacologically active or inactive presence) serves to underline just how far we have to go. Under the present system Trainers are damned no matter what & that is just straight up wrong.
Greg, was not inferring that Barry Lew administered the drug, just using it as a generalisation. In fact haven't mentioned the trainer at all in my posts.
Under our rules (which are generally aligned to Australia), Ketomine and its metabolites has a withholding period of 5 days. (120 hrs). There is no threshold for this substance.
IMO this long withholding period is consistent with my understanding of the drug with properties including but not restricted to..
Anti inflammatory,
Pain killer
Broncodilator
My sister's dog is currently being treated with Ketomine by infusion to reduce inflammation and pain following amputation of a foot.
I have no intention to revisit an old arguement Jamie, as it never got resolved and won't either, however, under the current rules ( or any other for that matter) there MUST BE a line in the sand somewhere....long may we argue where that line is....but if the line is there, and it's there for all to see..ridiculous in your opinion, but realistic in the opinions of some others, then you play within the rules and YES, you give yourself a safety factor, and if you don't and get done? Blame yourself IMO, don't blame the rules!
How can you blame the rules if everyone else is playing within those rules and you get busted for stretching them??
The rules are always up for amendment, but we need to play within the rules of the day on the day, otherwise we can be accused of cheating, ask Lance, although, maybe don't 'cos I get the impression he still doesn't actually get it.
cheers,
Dan
No worries Rob but we are talking about Barry Lew in this thread or at least i am.
I'm with Jamie about threshold level's they need to be done and quickly as at present with the miniscule amounts that can be found in a swab now it is ridiculous. Not saying the rule need's changing but something need's to be done about threshold level's for therapeutic drug's in general as in this case with Barry the amount found is equivalent to 1 minute in 38 year's. It's laughable if it were not so serious of a charge.Surely in this day and age of the level of testing that is available they could say that at this level 1 nanogramm no action is required just inform the trainer that there is an abnormality in the test result or something to that effect and move on. I personally am more concerned with team driving and pulling them up than 1 nannogram in a swab result. If it was EPO or ITTP or something as sinister the steward's would be justified in charging the trainer under the rules perhaps. This is just my opinion.
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
Where can you get a list of drugs and withholding times from. They should be readily available to all so as to play within the rules as Danno put it.
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
Hi Jaimie
Unless they have changed the rules I found this which clearly states Ketamine is NOT generally a therapeutic drug.
There are over 250 horse racecourses and 100 racing authorities worldwide (1). According to The International Federation of Horseracing Authorities (IFHA), racing takes place in 48 countries.
The ARCI (Association of Racing Commissioners International) are the international regulatory body for prohibited substances in racing. They have established a uniform classification for foreign substances. These drugs are classified into 5 categories: (2)
Class 1 drugs
Stimulants and depressant drugs that have the greatest potential to affect performance and have no generally accepted medical use in racing. Drugs include; opiates, synthetic opioids, amphetamines.
Class 2 drugs
Drugs that have a high potential to affect performance, but less so than class 1 drugs. These drugs are not generally accepted as therapeutic agents in racing and have a high potential for abuse. Examples include; ketamine and ractopamine.
The possibility exists that ketamine, or ketamine in combination with xylazine, is being used Illicitly to affect the performance of racehorses.
ALSO...they are doing studies that are intresting.
CONCLUSIONS: This first observation that norketamine produces effects in the opposite direction of ketamine requires additional proof & tests are ongoing.
So if a horses needs norketamine as a theraupitic drug then he is in NO condition to race.
Even with 1 nannogram.
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
Are John and Barry brothers?
Yes Trevor John is the older brother.
Have whoever you want on but don't ever have yourself on
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