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Thread: More Positives

  1. #21
    Senior Member 4YO eliteblood has a spectacular aura about eliteblood's Avatar
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    Trevor Swan
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    The last sentence in this article is of particular interest

    "He (Murrihy) said there were also anecdotal reports of capsaicin arising from the administration of non-proprietary drenches that have been touted for pre-race use in horses."

  2. #22
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Jaimie Varcoe
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliteblood View Post
    really. That's terrible to think that hrnsw may have got it wrong and, due to an administration error, innocent trainers are coming up with positives to capsicain and are being suspended for the use of a performance enhancing drug.
    Or could it be that it is you who has spun off the runway and that the trainers are in fact the ones who have made administration errors, ie. Administering a drug that they thought would go undetected in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage over the ever diminishing group of honest people left in the sport.
    [vvv] depends on your point of view i guess. I think it's a symptom of a bigger problem, one that could be addressed and should be addressed and would be largely if not completely solved if the motivation were there to do so.
    if we had a list of therapeutics in place and thresholds for same then we wouldn't be having this debate...but we don't and we should and whatsmore we all know we should, even most if not all of the stewards will agree with that...it would make their job 10x easier for starters.

    i think you should be praising reid sanders and hrnsw for their efforts to bring things back to a level playing field rather than trying to discredit everything they do.
    [vvv] i am not discrediting everything they do trevor...however what has boiled over here is my frustration at their continued innaction insofar as the establishment of thresholds for a therapeutic substances list.
    imo if reid & the rest of the regulatory crew there at hrnsw really want to do something lasting and of benefit, something which will see the industry get out of the dark ages in his area and progress then they need to find deep within themselves the motivation required to drag the issue of the establishment of a therapeutic thresholds out of the too hard basket...the place where successive administrations both state & national have left it lay.
    they then need to work on it & keep working on it until such time as it is ready to be instituted. I would dearly love to see nsw take the national lead in this area, we should get on the front foot & do something about it. i'd be there to cheer it in from the rooftops.

    with regard to the vast majority of positives recorded there's no question they are therapeutic overages in nature.
    while under the current state of play that does not serve as a defence, the fact we currently do not have a therapeutic thresholds list in place effectively forces many a trainer's hand insofar as them seeking to maintain their stock in good racing order.
    these are performance horses being asked to tough, fast miles week in week out and they need to be viewed as such they need to be able to be treated accordingly. Week to week, month to month, year in year out economics when combined with the basic animal welfare issues will otherwise ultimately prove to be insurmountable unless the industry seeks out & finds a better way.
    a classic example is eiph.
    i would hazzard a guess and say that people in the industry largely do not realise that it is the single biggest animal welfare issue horse racing faces...however because it for obvious reasons largely hidden then regulatory on a state and national basis have never felt the need to address it. Perversely, i was recently told that internationally the very substance that geoff small got hung for, amicar, is fast firming as the best practice choice above and beyond lasix. How slowly the wheels turn eh?
    instead of getting ahead of the wave ala the whip rule changes (which were excellent & welcome btw) must we instead wait until such time as some batik sarong wearing, sandle clad, tofu eating peta subscribing tree hugger gets their head around the implications of it & all of a sudden our hand is being publicly forced. Presto...there'll be all sorts of moves made to investigate the use of/allowable thresholds for anti-bleeder meds & so on. Masters of our own destiny, be.

    a further to the above aspect and at the very least as equally important is that rules covering this area as written effectively work in direct opposition to that which the harness racing industry so desperately needs to offer up as a product in order to sruvive...genuine, reliable handicappable form for the punters to bet on.
    vvv

  3. #23
    Senior Member Stallion Triple V will become famous soon enough Triple V's Avatar
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    Jaimie Varcoe
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    G'day Trevor,
    Perhaps I didn't make what I am getting at clear enough. When I stated..."if we had a list of therapeutics in place and thresholds for same then we wouldn't be having this debate..." ...I meant that if we in fact had such a list in place then our Trainers would have little or no need to be thinking 'outside the square'/outside of the rules to this degree. They would aleady have on hand a list of acknowledged/accepted/widely used Veterinary therapeutics and with it the accompanying thresholds for same, thus removing the fear that...for example...they will get a Bute positive some 96hrs+ post administration despite the fact it stops having any appreciably pain killing effect 12hrs post administration. For years and years we've had all manner of cure-alls offered up...herbs, magnets, magic crystals, voodoo dolls, accupuncture, God only knows...you name it, someone's tried it.
    Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to cut to the chase, to chop through all the bollocks and acknowledge then work with the one inescapable truth?
    These are Performance horses and like it or not they need to be medicated/treated...call it what you will....in order to give of and maintain their best form.
    Creating a situation where horses are racing in peak physical health, pain free & giving of and maintaining their best form posssible is a win/win/win. The Owner, The Trainer, The Punter...everyone benefits. Am I the only one who can see this? I strongly suspect that is not the case.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Horse Of The Year trish will become famous soon enough
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    Hi Jaimie , Mark again . We do have a list of acceptable therapeutic substances for any good horseman to work with . Its anything thats not on the banned substance list . Bloody easy . Problem is that most of these guys and gals don't know how to trian effectively without them . There are performance horses and they don't need drugs to keep them on the track , unless you want an unfair advantage . These people DON'T use them to as therapeutics , they use them to win . Like ive said a thousand times , if a horse really needs them then he's too sick to race .
    Looks like the grape vine was correct about the drenching .
    Last edited by trish; 02-22-2013 at 07:03 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #25
    Super Moderator Horse Of The Year teecee has a spectacular aura about teecee's Avatar
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    Tony Cahill
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    The topic of this thread relates to a continuing spate of positive threads. It is not about Jaimie Varcoe..aka Triple V. Jaimie has a point of view on the topic and is free to offer his viewpoint as he does. Other posters are entitled to debate his viewpoint in the affirmative (agreed) or opposed stance but their views should be related to the issue rather than the person. If you have offered up your opinion and have more to offer then again feel free. Jaimies' opinion is just that...his opinion. If you support his view on the ISSUE / TOPIC feel free to say so. If not okay put your alternative view or say why you think someone else's (e.g. Jaimie's view of the ISSUE is wrong or needs to be modified but posts that offer no comment on the issue but instead comment on the person will be deleted from the thread. This is not restricted to this thread but all threads.
    Please remember when posting.. You are offering comment on ISSUES not PERSONALITIES nor PEOPLE.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Colt clumsy will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by teecee View Post
    The topic of this thread relates to a continuing spate of positive threads. It is not about Jaimie Varcoe..aka Triple V. Jaimie has a point of view on the topic and is free to offer his viewpoint as he does. Other posters are entitled to debate his viewpoint in the affirmative (agreed) or opposed stance but their views should be related to the issue rather than the person. If you have offered up your opinion and have more to offer then again feel free. Jaimies' opinion is just that...his opinion. If you support his view on the ISSUE / TOPIC feel free to say so. If not okay put your alternative view or say why you think someone else's (e.g. Jaimie's view of the ISSUE is wrong or needs to be modified but posts that offer no comment on the issue but instead comment on the person will be deleted from the thread. This is not restricted to this thread but all threads.
    Please remember when posting.. You are offering comment on ISSUES not PERSONALITIES nor PEOPLE.
    Thanks teecee I now know why all my threads that mention a particular name have been deleated. I must apologise for the misuse of the thread.

  7. #27
    Senior Member 3YO barney will become famous soon enough
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    brian campbell
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    My belief is if Any Trainer not matter who how big or small tests positive for a banned substance no matter how minute the reading they should be banned for a period .If then they are CAUGHT again then a lifetime ban is warranted and would serve as a lesson for all.In gallops there are repeat offenders get 6 months transfer horses to a rellie then come back and do the same again.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Colt clumsy will become famous soon enough
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    Greg Snudden
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    Quote Originally Posted by barney View Post
    My belief is if Any Trainer not matter who how big or small tests positive for a banned substance no matter how minute the reading they should be banned for a period .If then they are CAUGHT again then a lifetime ban is warranted and would serve as a lesson for all.In gallops there are repeat offenders get 6 months transfer horses to a rellie then come back and do the same again.
    Barney
    This is also my opinion of anyone who tests positive and the charge is proven.

  9. #29
    Senior Member 3YO barney will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by clumsy View Post
    Barney
    This is also my opinion of anyone who tests positive and the charge is proven.
    Im afraid it is not the opinion of all on here as has been argued that beacuse it was only a trace shouldnt have been suspended,I can rember in another topic someone arguerd that because it was a leading trainer was ok to cheat

  10. #30
    Member Yearling Toni will become famous soon enough
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    I highly doubt anyone would have said if you are a leading trainer, then it is ok to cheat. That would have been taken out of context or not read in the manner it was intended. That is a lot of whats wrong with online forums today - people read what they want to read in order to create drama and an argument.

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