More Positives

[eliteblood]

All of a sudden everyone's going for a row for capsaicin eh?
Short memories some have. Remember the shitfight HRNZ kicked off when they sent all those samples to HK and they all started coming back positive for Arsenic?

Sing along now...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAjSWZQNXLU

So what are you suggesting Jaimie ?

[Triple V]

In a verging on religious zeal to bring those it believes to be wrongdoers to justice and backed by a mob who tend to have even less of an understanding of the subject at hand than our intrepid Industry leaders and protectors periodically display, I am concerned the Regulatory aircraft has overshot the runway & is in serious danger of ending up nose first in Botany Bay. HRNZ found that out in spades and the only thing missing in their full reverse was the beeping sound made by large vehicles. I wonder how long before Trainers start to get positives for Blue Spray or Stockholm Tar? If you weigh more than a Duck perhaps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

[mightymo]

Found this on the net. Even says it wont swab positive!

http://www.horsewell.co.nz/products/capsaicin.pdf

[mightymo]

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8603929

[mightymo]

and David Farrugia. That makes 5 . Sounds like this has been widely used. There could be 10's of positives...

[trish]

In a verging on religious zeal to bring those it believes to be wrongdoers to justice and backed by a mob who tend to have even less of an understanding of the subject at hand than our intrepid Industry leaders and protectors periodically display, I am concerned the Regulatory aircraft has overshot the runway & is in serious danger of ending up nose first in Botany Bay. HRNZ found that out in spades and the only thing missing in their full reverse was the beeping sound made by large vehicles. I wonder how long before Trainers start to get positives for Blue Spray or Stockholm Tar? If you weigh more than a Duck perhaps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

Hi Jaimie its Mark.
You surprised me Jaimie, I thought you would suggest they all get 12 mths for EVERY offence.

Capsaicin is a VERY effective pain killer .
Lack of pain increases stamina & thus gives an unfair advantage . Much like bi carb .
The grape vine tells me this is used in a drench, so if thats true, and its very strong, then that is an offence in itself .
The same vine tells me that they are being supplied by a disqualified person . So thats another offence .
They really are scum bags!

So what part of BANNED substance don't you get Jaimie?

Capsaicin is a banned substance in equestrian sports because of its hypersensitizing and pain relieving properties. At the show jumping events of the 2008 Summer Olympics, four horses tested positive for the substance, which resulted in disqualification.[45

Capsaicin is also the key ingredient in the experimental drug Adlea, which is in Phase 2 trials as a long-acting analgesic to treat post-surgical and osteoarthritis pain for weeks to months after a single injection to the site of pain. Now thats amazing !!

[teecee]

Some interesting points made. Some need clarification.
Jaimie... the issues in NZ whereby the RIU chose not to charge persons with drug related offences is far from a closed door nor a backdown by the authorities. It remains the intention of the RIU to seek the disqualification of the horses involved. This saga is ongoing.

The issue of the drug not swabbing. In NZ and almost certainly elsewhere as we have mutual arrangements globally on this issue The drug CAPAISIN has a withholding period of 2 days (24 hours). It is considered to be a Class 1 category drug with its "nerve numbing" properties. This means it has the capability of completely numbing pain whilst inflammation and trauma remain. The use of this drug may well be as much an animal welfare issue as an agent to affect speed, stamina, etc etc...The basis of the prohibited substance rules.

Harvey, your posted article is very interesting for IMO and others in the industry I have spoken to it is really the basic cause of any number of these positive samples. there is a plethora of so called therapeutic and herbal remedies on the open market now and for sale over the counter / mail order. Their marketing says everything and anything for a sale..the most popular is of course non swabbable. Very few of them say what is really inside and even fewer understand their ingredients' pharmacological properties. From personal experience trainers are clearly targeted in the marketing of these products. I can proudly say that I have never purchased one single such product.
Add to this scenario a trainer who has a horse displaying pain, inflammation or similar.
the issue is "not bad enough to get the vet and they cost too much" so what other opportunities exist. As above there are plenty of products on the market. Harmless, herbal remedies non swabbable. We've all heard about the wonderful healing properties of herbal remedies. They get rammed down our throats daily in the infomercial markets.
IMO trainers are seeking out these remedies more and more. Most trainers don't have either the time to research nor the capability to adequately investigate what they are really putting in or on their horse to make it feel better. The only real outlet for that info in mostly an understandable way is their vet. But not involving the vet is why they have sought such a remedy in the first place.
I remember a time shortly after getting my trainer's licence making a trip to HRNZ HQ..(fortunately it was in the same city as I) to enquire about the use of certain Herbal remedies and whether the ingredients were on the prohibited substance list. The stipe I spoke to said that I should talk to my vet. The list was the domain of the Equine Veterinary Assn (EVA). For some years the EVA has held the list very close to their heart for fear of compromising their members. After the Arsenic saga of which Jaimie and I have alluded above thus compromising the EVA members in Auckland/ Waikato region the EV have released the withholding times and dosages of drugs on the prohibited substances list thus placing the onus of responsibility much more clearly than previously on trainers. That's not to say trainers always had the full 100% responsibility under the absolute liabaility provisions in the rules.

So in short IMO trainers are going to continue to be caught out with routine and more retro testing of samples finding ever smaller traces of prohibited substances emanating for the ignorant administration of herbal based supplements where the true capabilities of the true ingredients are unknown to the trainer through a lack of research / asking or not falsely disclosed by manufacturers / marketing of these products. Batches of positive swabs together of one particular product indicates to me what I have always believed from my knowledge of the testing process...Retro testing of batches of samples for specific drugs...Expect more such events IMO

[Mighty Atom]

The latest may worry some people as they must have frozen samples and will be able to test for other drugs etc as time goes on.

Testing frozen samples is the best way to keep racing clean providing all samples are analysed and not randomly tested.

[aussiebreno]

[aussiebreno]

The way I see it is trainers think they have found something that is non-swabbable and been going for their life. I will wait for the hearings to pass judgement as you never know what might have happened.
At the end of the day it's a banned substance (whether you think it should be banned or not) and using it is cheating and getting an unfair advantage on rivals.