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Thread: Who is the real trainer?

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  1. #1
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    Who is the real trainer?

    Luke McCarthy or Belinda?

    Clayton Tonkin or Emma Stewart?

    I did a google search of Clayton Tonkin just to find out a bit more info, and was surprised to find the 2nd top result was about him getting 12 months for juicing his horses.

    I know Mark Purdon has his own history with blue magic. Luke has had his own issues over the past year or so. Smoken Up lost an inter!!!

    What does the poor owner do coming into the industry who wants transparency and integrity it sure seems a difficult task to find a successful stable where everything is legit and above board.

    Or am I just being a cynic here?

    Some of these stables sure do get a LOT of young horses to go VERY fast.

    Nobody seems to talk about this much - all I really hear about is how great they can train.

    If everyone is above board and gifted then can I ask why all the murkiness and history??

    Does anyone else share my cynicism?

  2. #2
    Senior Member 3YO barney will become famous soon enough
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    A lot of people sure have doubts i definetily do but like most people give them benefit of doubt.

    I have been told Peter Tonkin Emma Stewarts partner and Claytons father is a qualified chemist not sure if true or not

  3. #3
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by barney View Post
    A lot of people sure have doubts i definetily do but like most people give them benefit of doubt.

    I have been told Peter Tonkin Emma Stewarts partner and Claytons father is a qualified chemist not sure if true or not
    I don't know much about the history of all these people. I'm relatively new to this industry and I have made little effort to get 'networked' other than racing horses with my trainer and whoever he might introduce me to from time to time.

    I think an easily accessible database of all industry participants - drivers trainers stablehands stewards and other paid employees such as who does the barrier draws, all the vets, owners, everyone's history re successes and penalties for cheating or whatever - would be a handy and informative tool for those wanting to learn more about who all these people really are.

    Something like LinkedIn I guess - with everyone's employment background and record easily accessible.

    I struggle to get my head around how easy it is to get done for something then just switch the horses over to the missus and it's business as usual like nothing ever happened. I may be ignorant and wrong but it looks like a scam to me.

  4. #4
    Member Yearling Toni will become famous soon enough
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    I think you are probably a little off.

    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought they shut the loophole down where if one trainer got disqualified, then the horses couldnt just be transferred to a partners name?

    What the poor owner does is makes themselves aware of who is actually training their horse and makes sure they are happy for that trainer to train their horse. If they arent, they pull the horse and find a new trainer or give it a go themselves? You cant enter into horse ownership blindly and hope for the best. It sure sounds like you have done your homework so I think everyone would be capable of doing the same or finding someone to help them out.

    I personally beleive that most of the big stables would be above board and legit - they have so many horses competing, surely they cant be absolute geniuses to make sure nothing ever swabs - They would be spending all their time on scheming and no time on training (Am I wrong?).

    Also, Luke McCarthy was never found guilty of anything - unfortunately for him it seems people still seem to think he has done something wrong?

  5. #5
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    Also, Luke McCarthy was never found guilty of anything - unfortunately for him it seems people still seem to think he has done something wrong?
    See this is where I get confused because I have been told he wasn't found not guilty rather hrnsw decided to not contest his legal action for some reason. (Costs? Buggered up a sample?)
    Therefore the charges etc got dropped?

    Why is Belinda McCarthy listed as the trainer? What is the factual reason for it? Do you know where I'm coming from you put everything together and things seem a bit nqr so to speak.

  6. #6
    Member Yearling Toni will become famous soon enough
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    If the charges were dropped, there was no way he could be found either guilty or not guilty - it didnt get to that point - they couldnt prove the charges because the sample was behaving in a way no sample has ever behaved at all, if I remember correctly, 4 experts on each side were employed and pretty much all they could agree to disagree on was that it was probably contaminated. (Again someone correct me if im wrong).

    I have no idea why Belinda is the trainer, but I have heard someone say on here if you go to the races you will see her working her butt off - so its not just a front, she is actually working with the horses. And I also think where there are multiple runners in a race from the same trainer, they have to report something to the stewards, which would be her job. I doubt you could do that if the horses were merely in your name for some other reason, you would need a pretty good knowledge of your horses for that?

    I also think this might allow Luke to pick which horses he drives and also take on outside drives (while I was looking through the fields I noticed he was driving some horses he doesnt train - not sure if this is a regular occurance anyway), which I think seems sensible. Why do you see a problem with it?

    Thats just mainly what I have picked up in here, I dont have anything to back it up and im open to correction if im wrong...

  7. #7
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    No offence but I find this a scoffable joke. I was at the APG yearling sales in Melbourne and Emilio Rosati was with Luke McCarthy every step of the way. If Emilio said jump Luke would've said how high. There is no way known Luke isn't the main man.
    Last edited by teecee; 02-24-2013 at 06:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Banned Filly little fish will become famous soon enough
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    My point is that it was Luke who was by his side not his missus.

    Look if it's legal and there is a legitimate logistical reason for putting the horses in her name then fine. But lets not live in fairyland and pretend that she is the real trainer who is in charge. The suggestion that Luke might want to drive for other stables is crazy - if I had a horse with them and he chose another stable's horse over mine I'd go apesh-t.
    Last edited by teecee; 02-24-2013 at 06:21 PM.

  9. #9
    aussiebreno
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    Mishka,
    This isn't about jealousy or how well people train. It's about integrity.
    If Peter and Marie are training as a team but only Pete's name with authorities then if Pete gets a positive swab Marie is free for the horses to be transfered to.
    Two problems. Pete got in trouble...but according to you Pete and Marie were working as a team, therefore Marie would have been party to positive swab.
    Next problem, Pete is now DQed and Marie is training. Are they still working as a team?

    Out of sammystew's post he/she raised issue of stablehands or other workers. Sammystew said it himself...these workers are merely working FOR the trainer, they aren't training. Employees don't have the responsibilities as the trainer. No need for listing.

    Point of my posts today isn't about saying some people are dodgy bastards, but about a hard area to police that needs fixing imho.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Foal mishka0972 will become famous soon enough
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    The start of this thread questioned the integrity of these trainers, even followed by untrue comments that one had a father who was a chemist. Which is wrong considering the skill these people have- thus the success. Belinda or Emma aren't just wives or partners who take the trainer title for "murky" reasons they are active trainers and work hard in the family businesses they share with there husbands/ fiancée Luke and Clayton. Both these couples run a business and just choose one or the other to be the listed trainer. In Victoria you can not list 2 trainers.



    Quote Originally Posted by aussiebreno View Post
    Mishka,
    This isn't about jealousy or how well people train. It's about integrity.
    If Peter and Marie are training as a team but only Pete's name with authorities then if Pete gets a positive swab Marie is free for the horses to be transfered to.
    Two problems. Pete got in trouble...but according to you Pete and Marie were working as a team, therefore Marie would have been party to positive swab.
    Next problem, Pete is now DQed and Marie is training. Are they still working as a team?

    Out of sammystew's post he/she raised issue of stablehands or other workers. Sammystew said it himself...these workers are merely working FOR the trainer, they aren't training. Employees don't have the responsibilities as the trainer. No need for listing.

    Point of my posts today isn't about saying some people are dodgy bastards, but about a hard area to police that needs fixing imho.

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